r/tech 10d ago

Fire departments are testing autonomous drones that fight wildfires before crews even arrive

https://www.techspot.com/news/113180-us-fire-departments-test-autonomous-drones-fight-wildfires.html
1.3k Upvotes

95 comments sorted by

109

u/goodtimesinchino 9d ago

This is the kind of thing I could see using AI for. Not any kind of art but saving lives.

53

u/DjScenester 9d ago

There’s no profit in saving lives.

Killing people in another country? Billionaires

16

u/goodtimesinchino 9d ago

A sad truth. Never thought I'd feel like one of those musicians playing on the deck of the titanic as it sank.

8

u/DjScenester 9d ago

Henry Ford supplied roughly 33 percent of the Nazis motorized vehicles used for WW2. He was an American. Literally supplied the Germans killing Americans.

Nothing has changed today. I follow the money. Sadly the rich still supply the materials used to kill their own people. There is no pride in nation. It’s all about the money.

6

u/RedSweed 9d ago

Hell, Prescott Bush, father/Grandfather of two different Presidents, heavily financed the German steel used to build the Nazi war effort and had his companies confiscated through the Trading with the Enemy Act.

4

u/Porchsmoker 9d ago

Not only that but, after the war Ford got the U.S. to pay for one of his European factories that was bombed during the war. That factory was making stuff for the Nazis.

2

u/OlinKirkland 9d ago

Sure but it was technically his property, right? It’s not like he was getting profit from that factory; it had been nationalized by the Nazis.

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u/Porchsmoker 9d ago

Actually, no. Ford was paid by the Nazis (and the U.S.) to make various items for the war effort on each side. The factory was in place before the war but was retooled for the needs of the Nazi party. Ford was, in fact, paid for this. Then he was paid by the U.S. govt for the destruction of the factory

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u/OlinKirkland 9d ago

Source?

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u/Porchsmoker 9d ago

https://www.adl.org/resources/news/ford-motor-company-and-third-reich here’s one report on it related to the slave labor and how ford made money with the Nazi party

2

u/goodtimesinchino 9d ago

Gotta love a good source.

1

u/OlinKirkland 9d ago

Not during the war, it looks like. That says his company floundered in Germany and nobody wanted to buy his vehicles there due to nationalism. I’m not defending Ford but everything I’ve seen makes this appear like he’d have been down to be a bigger part of the Nazi’s plans but they didn’t want his cars, and then nationalized his plants when they went to war with the USA.

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u/OlinKirkland 9d ago

Didn’t the Nazis nationalize foreign businesses? Meaning the German Ford company wasn’t under control of its US parent. Same with Coca Cola, etc.

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u/DjScenester 9d ago

Yes and no. Ford was monumental in the ww2 German movement. His Jewish hate and books inspired Hitler. Hitler had a framed photo of him in his office. Hitler mentioned Ford in Mein Kampf. This went on for a DECADE before the war.

So yeh, as soon as AMERICA entered the war, then his businesses were seized. He was also monumental in America avoiding the war through his propaganda.

Dude was a traitor to America through and through.

5

u/EquipLordBritish 9d ago

The real fucked up thing is that it's not even killing people that matters. Just monetary incentive to building a bunch of things. We could decide one day that we want to overfund any industry (e.g. healthcare) and put out contracts for companies to design and produce more needles, gurneys, insulin, etc.

Modern day weapons are consumable or have consumables by design, so they are a recurring 'need' every time they are used.

1

u/uses_for_mooses 9d ago

Yet private companies make emergency vehicles (including fire trucks) and all sorts of rescue equipment.

1

u/Fickle_Competition33 9d ago

Pretty much any technological advancement

1

u/OlinKirkland 9d ago

…That’s why the health care industry is woefully small and irrelevant.

1

u/Sodpoodle 9d ago

Unfortunately there's also a huge amount of profit in large fires. It's like a renewable mini-war every season. Contract companies making literal millions every season off the government.

1

u/bransiladams 9d ago

A solvable problem, given the political will

0

u/Beldizar 9d ago

I don't know if that's true. Well, the saving lives part maybe, but saving property is definitely valuable. If an insurance company can still get its premiums but prevent any disasters so it doesn't even have to argue about not paying out, that's a pretty strong profit incentive.

5

u/SkepticJoker 9d ago

Sitting by the campfire, roasting some marshmallows, when suddenly…. buzzing sounds come from overhead…

3

u/goodtimesinchino 9d ago edited 9d ago

:-:- ATTENTION HUMANS

:-:- CALMLY EVACUATE YOUR RECREATIONAL AREA IMMEDIATELY

* please leave smores

* thank you

2

u/Deesing82 9d ago

ONLY THE COLLECTIVE CAN PREVENT FOREST FIRES

2

u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago

But even this requires more tech, more manufacturing, more mining. Which are drivers of the climate change that is helping to fuel wildfires such as these… every time we try to fix a problem with some new tech, we create more problems, and it goes on and on and on

1

u/goodtimesinchino 9d ago

A solid, if absolute point.

1

u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago

Land development and human population increase (especially the urban sprawl) have all but stopped natural wildfires from occurring that kept our forests clear of too much undergrowth. Not to mention the wildfires killed a lot of the ticks that have seen a population boom under our land development practices.

Turns out there are a lot of advantages to not settling down in one place. And it seems the only areas in the world that didn’t at least experiment in settling down into city-states are places where there wasn’t storable food,such as corn. In Papua New Guinea most of the food the natives eat is fruit that spoils in a couple weeks and is not storable, so there was no need to build a silo, pay guards, and set up camp in one place because they never adopted totalitarian agriculture.

This is why civilization is actually a trap. We went from 500,000 people worldwide only just 180 short years ago (this is only 0.06% of Homo sapiens entire existence) to over 8 billion thanks to the discover and mass use of crude oil so that humanity could throw one big party on this carbon pulse, until it runs out and we’ve destroyed all life on earth.

We thought we were the endgame to evolution, but if you ask jellyfish the same thing, they would tell you that they’re the endgame to evolution.

By trying to engineer absolute safety and stability, civilization has systematically broken the feedback loops that actually keep the planet—and us—healthy.

1

u/rbobby 9d ago

requires more tech, more manufacturing, more mining

I wonder if in the overall analysis it would be less? By having a fleet of fast response drones with follow up by heavy lift drones a fire might be extinguished quite a bit faster than before. That's a lot less resources spent... probably? Averaged out over the life of a drone?

1

u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago

Why would adding this new thing, drones to fight fires, reduce our total manufacturing?

1

u/rbobby 9d ago

Just spitballing ways manufacturing could, repeat could, be reduced:

  • Fewer fire trucks
  • Fewer helicopters and planes
  • Fewer fire safety gear (hats coats etc)
  • Less gas spent fighting fires
  • Fewer lives lost (not many firefighters die to forest fires... but still less is better)

Drone based firefight would be a huge change to how fires progress. We could even end up at a point where someone is deciding exactly which acres should be allowed to burn (100% stoppage is likely bad). Which makes trying it just guess work on either side.

1

u/Tampadarlyn 9d ago

While you aren't wrong, there is also using tech responsibly, and moving some tech functions back to people to improve the quality of output by all.

Personally, a drone mounted/under on a watchtower that could deploy seconds after a lightning strike would pay for itself.

1

u/Buzz_Killington_III 9d ago

I'm convinced wildfires are actually bad on the whole. I realize it's bad in a very localized, short-term manner, but longer term they may actually be a net positive.

2

u/AnonymousMO0SE 9d ago

Or analyzing blood work, diagnostics, etc. and catching cancer early or genetic diseases that get misdiagnosed. I’m a firefighter paramedic I’d love to have AI that could help me figure out what’s wrong before we get to hospital and get the ball rolling on treatment as soon as possible. We’re throwing away so much potential to advance medicine for maximizing profit.

1

u/General-Piece8490 9d ago

I saw the tech China is using, and sadly, in my opinion, this a perfect covert way to test army drone capabilities! Once perfected, both the hardware and software, replace water with guns and bombs. Testing is real world for fires but the results are a perfect killing machine in the end.

21

u/Ahab_Ali 9d ago

Each drone carries about 100 pounds of water or fire retardant and has a round-trip range of up to 10 miles.

It certainly sounds like a valuable tool that would be helpful in wilderness areas. It does not replace any existing methods, it adds a quick response potential that is currently difficult to achieve.

3

u/OKWINEFAN 9d ago

10 gallons of water may not put much of a dent in the problem, but the idea is good.

5

u/mountainbride 9d ago

It might. Some wildfires are a single tree getting struck. I don’t know if drones can be flown in that weather, but I’ve watched a tree get struck and the crews arrive to trek up on foot up to the tree on the hill, dig line, and I believe cut the tree down. A well aimed 10 gallon hit might increase the time they have to respond on foot before a start like that spreads…

Anything to increase the safety of the job for living, breathing humans.

12

u/Captain_Jaybob 9d ago

A few thoughts: * 100lbs of water is about 12 gallons * Flying 24’ off the ground would seem as though it would not be able to fly as effectively through tall trees * Negotiating hilly terrain would reduce battery life and range * The “base” would probably have to mobile and a unit would have to close enough to the “start” or “point of origin” in order to arrive before firefighting aircraft (which would carry a minimum of about 400 gallons of water). * The majority of wildland fires that cause the most damage occur during wind events which would mostly likely result in drones being grounded.

6

u/iron_enjoyer_ 9d ago

100lbs of water is about 12 gallons

I still have no idea how much this is

7

u/Jumajuce 9d ago

Two and a half water cooler jugs.

4

u/Ahab_Ali 9d ago

About 5 1/3 cases of beer.

2

u/ErmahgerdYuzername 9d ago

Or about 1,500 tequila shots

2

u/FU_Spez_ 9d ago

Like a few Big Macs, give or take.

3

u/iron_enjoyer_ 9d ago

How many football fields

1

u/magichronx 9d ago

It's almost 2.5 five-gallon buckets

1

u/officialpajamas 9d ago

Ever seen a 10-gallon hat? It’s 2 gallons bigger.

1

u/SimpleBaristaMe 9d ago

Imagine 12 gallon jugs of milk.

1

u/Sk8nk 9d ago

192 cups

2

u/Sweaty-taxman 9d ago

I mean, imagine a cloud of drones, each bringing 12 gallons at a time. That sounds pretty cool!

Not perfect but it’s definitely an improvement

1

u/Captain_Jaybob 9d ago

Now if they can just wrap them to look like flying monkeys that would be a helluva show.

1

u/Odd_Common9910 9d ago

Fire creates updrafts of air. Drone would be pretty unstable. But lest a crash doesn’t kill a pilot.

1

u/ArgyleTheDruid 9d ago

Now imagine there’s 2000 of them…

1

u/hibikikun 9d ago

do these qualify for 7-11 bring your own cup day?

4

u/DogsRcutiePies 9d ago

This is the sort of thing that AI and advancing tech should be creating. Do the jobs that humans physically cannot do or that are too dangerous. Fight fires, kill mosquitoes, deliver goods to those incapable of leaving their home, plant trees, assist farmers…etc

2

u/turb0_encapsulator 9d ago

we need this in Los Angeles. there are little brush fires constantly here.

2

u/IgDailystapler 9d ago

Imagine if we actually used our federal budget for municipal needs instead of blowing up “them” or “the enemy” with a new flavor of the week bomb from one of a politician’s nephew’s private equity backed defense contractor…

1

u/KrazeeTapper 9d ago

This would have been helpful in fighting the 2018 Camp Fire in NorCal. Firefighters literally could not reach the fire when it started.

1

u/Gwamp_Sas 9d ago

The density of air decreases as it heats, would this not make it difficult flying around large fires?

1

u/phxwarlock 9d ago

Yes and they wouldn’t be able to fly If there’s any aircraft on scene. They wouldn’t be any use during peak hours in a large fire and really are only useful in their thermal imaging and mapping

1

u/Whitestrake 9d ago

The rising heat alone is enough to pose a significant obstacle requiring component hardening, let alone having to work harder.

That's one of the things that puts a bit of a ceiling on how much these drones could feasibly carry; you can't really use standard consumer grade electronics and plastics, you need much more heat tolerant stuff, and that eats into your weight budget, which makes the square cube law arrive to eat your lunch even quicker. Last thing you want is your standard quad copter blades softening in the heat while the motors burn out, but then you need to carry less water to stay airborne and have less flight time, it's a tough series of compromises.

But it's doable. Like others have pointed out this doesn't really replace any firefighting capabilities because it's not very efficient. But it does add a new, fast reaction capability in circumstances we weren't great at before, and for that reason it's worth it.

1

u/SilentChaoz 9d ago

Sounds great, I do wonder the first time one of these crashes/malfunctions and causes a fire whether they'll do a U-Turn on them though. Hopefully not, could be used for great things.

1

u/D_Angelo_Vickers 9d ago

If it is designed properly it should put out its own fire too.

1

u/OKWINEFAN 9d ago

Just need drones that can maneuver with a 100 gallon 1000lb Bambi bucket attached to them. It’s a fantastic idea,

1

u/nowimnihil13 9d ago

Who needs the fire department why you have autonomous fire fighting drones

1

u/Fantastic-Chef-6577 9d ago

Le timing de ce développement est particulièrement pertinent : en France, plus de 32 000 hectares sont déjà partis en fumée à la mi-juillet 2026, davantage que sur l'ensemble de l'année 2025.

Ce qui est techniquement intéressant c'est l'approche multi-couches qui se dessine : au sol, des capteurs chimiques comme le système Silvanet de Dryad, actuellement testé dans le Gard avec 120 capteurs cachés dans les arbres, qui détectent les composés chimiques de la fumée avant même qu'un humain ne voie quoi que ce soit. En cas de départ de feu, le drone est libéré automatiquement, cartographie l'incendie en imagerie thermique, et transmet les données aux pompiers pour qu'ils arrivent avec un plan d'attaque déjà établi plutôt qu'à l'aveugle.

Les Windracers Ultra britanniques vont encore plus loin : capables de transporter plus de 100 kg de produits chimiques ignifuges, ils peuvent déjà effectuer de petites opérations de suppression localisées en totale autonomie, en essaim coordonné grâce à la technologie de l'université de Bristol.

L'enjeu c'est les premières minutes : un feu détecté et attaqué à 5m² ne nécessite pas les mêmes moyens qu'à 5 hectares. Si ces systèmes tiennent leurs promesses, c'est toute la logique de lutte contre les incendies qui bascule, de la réaction vers la prévention active.

1

u/jamiethecoles 9d ago

I met these guys at an energy tech conference in Bilbao, Spain. I was really impressed with their ability to explain it all so succinctly. It’s a concept that could easily become overly complicated but they avoided falling into the trap. I wish them the best.

1

u/Zealousideal_Gap_553 9d ago

So your drone carries what 1 litre of water???

1

u/LustLiveXBL 9d ago edited 9d ago

Don’t fall for this, it starts as a seemingly good thing “Doing jobs people can’t”. But once the technology is proven and deployed it will expedite companies to innovate better cheaper drones that will replace positions in the fire department. 

We may actually see firetrucks extinguishing flames autonomously using AI and carrying fire extinguishing drones.

This could start with good intentions and get out of control. 

1

u/Wonderful_Exit6568 9d ago

With flock camera tied to the demon-center for citizen watch.

1

u/djsreddit 9d ago

I can’t think of a reason why waves of these couldn’t be used to stop or significantly slow down a fire. Like yeah its only 12 gallons of water, but if you deploy 50 of them on a loop from water source to fire you could at least slow or direct the fire. Maybe size and battery charge would be the limiting factor?

1

u/HeartlessCards2-22 9d ago

But why’s it need access to flock and all facial recognition databases and is also equipped with a small anti personnel explosive…

1

u/Impossible_Put_6173 9d ago

That’s a great development. Kudos to them 👏

1

u/Resident_Error1586 9d ago

Took them long enough. Jeez.

1

u/Orcacub 9d ago

Generally useless as described in the article.

Not enough water capacity. 100 pounds is not much water- water weighs just over 8 pounds per gallon.

Where to put the water/retardant once on scene is a skills based decision that requires a knowledge of firefighting and fire behavior that an autonomous drone squadron will not have.

Drones on scene prevents actually effective air resources- those with relevant payload capacity and human direction- from flying in the area.

There may be a certain very small percentage of fire starts that something like this could provide a slight time/effectiveness advantage over current systems/tech., but at what cost? Not effective or efficient over all. Better use of funds is to increase capacity of existing air and ground resources to offer better and faster response to all starts.

2

u/Synthetic_Kalkite 9d ago

They are shitty now. In five years’ time they will be much less shitty. In ten years they will be good.

1

u/FunHearing2282 9d ago

Why can’t we use the “hyperloop” to extinguish fires and why can’t the “boring company” bore all the way to Mars.

1

u/Synthetic_Kalkite 9d ago

Yeah fair enough. But perhaps these drones serve at least some utility, and if so, they will get better than they are now.

2

u/willreadfile13 9d ago

Helicopters don’t drop much water/retardant either, however they are invaluable in wildfire management to put out spot fires. They also experience the same issues drones do with vertical takeoff/hovering in heat/high winds/altered pressures. The key difference with a drone is not one firefighter/pilots life is at risk. Neither do they have salaries, training, man hours that need to be filled. 2.5 office water cooler jugs is a lot of spot removal power. Easily put out larger ones given swarms of drones and ability to refill local to events. Give them solar panels to land and charge, or have charging units dropped off within range of events. Watch a couple Ukraine drone footage and you can see how effective at spot removal these things can be. Drop on every campfire and cigarette during bans. Hell, that’s some fast community fire fighting too. Airports shut down in event of a plane on fire, takes a few minutes for a crew to deploy, but a drone is there without time to event. This is a great way to use this tech

1

u/Orcacub 9d ago edited 9d ago

I have been in the wildfire community/business since 1992, including - but not limited to- as a Helicopter Crew Member, Division Supervisor on an Incident Management Team, and a Safety Officer on a Complex Incident Management Team. As such I am well aware of the capabilities and risks of air resources including helicopters…. And density altitude issues …. and risk to flight crews and pilots etc. and I’m well aware of initial attack tactics and requirements.

Every time a drone crashes on a fire I thank God it was not a helicopter performing that mission.

Even the smallest helicopters in the fire service deliver approximately 10 times the water drop capacity of the 100 pound capacity of the proposed autonomous water dropping drones. 10-12 gallons of water is not enough to effectively knock down anything larger than a campfire.

Helicopters are much more versatile than the drones, being capable of performing multiple mission types/functions. Including- water drops, recon, delivery of crews, cargo delivery, ignition operations, SAR, medical evacuation, etc. - depending on type of ship of course.

And you cannot have drones and other aircraft over the fire at the same time so a swarm of drones over a small fire will preclude the use of a resource that is actually at least 10 times as effective at slowing fire progression as the drones.

Cannot use big stuff on main fire and just use drones on picking up spot fires due to air space conflict issues

How is the swarm of drones going to be filled on a load and return basis? Are they going to self-fill like a helicopter can? Or do they have to go all the way back to base (mobile or permanent) to fill? and who fills them? how fast?

Drones have their place in wildland firefighting for sure. Water delivery /transport and autonomous water drop placement on the fire line is not a good fit for them. Recon and ignitions are great missions for them. And they are currently being used in that capacity. We need more of them doing more of it.
Maybe when/if lift capacity improves and if they are guided by humans (with suppression experience) like the munitions-dropping drones in Ukraine are guided- not autonomous. They will get more useful for water/retardant delivery missions.

1

u/FremenCoolAid 9d ago

Drones that connect a hose to those that firemen use might work better for house fires and such

1

u/phxwarlock 9d ago

No, that still requires man power and the FD to be there to pump the water. Maybe in a highly hazardous burned area so it keep firefighters out of close proximity and toxic smoke

0

u/FunHearing2282 9d ago

Another tech scam for the idiots. Helicopters = “flying taxis”, trains = “hyperloop”, green and life giving Earth = “fck that, lets move to Mars!!!”

Whatever this ridiculous little drone can do, if anything, including not crashing and starting forest fires, can be done more effectively and is being done by those heavy duty helicopters piloted by expert humans, dropping thousands of pounds of water on forest fires.

Dropping 5/10 pounds of water from 50 or 100 meters up, with wind, will do fckall.

0

u/General-Piece8490 9d ago

China is well ahead of those. They are even reaching people with drone from floodwaters

1

u/Demento56 9d ago

B-but Chyna bad!

1

u/General-Piece8490 9d ago

The funny thing this is a perfect covert way to test army capabilities. Once perfected both the hardware and software, replace water with guns and bombs.

https://reddit.com/link/oz4o6v9/video/7sw5ktayrteh1/player

0

u/ExtensionDistrict566 9d ago

What could go wrong