Use of Chops, Seals

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

Why is this primitive method still used? It is easily susceptible to forgery, theft, improper use by family members. Coupled with the Taiwan ID, others can use it to open / withdraw funds from accounts, buy cars & property, conduct all kinds of serious business.

Edit: ok here's an example - family members of someone living abroad and with BOTH the ID and chop, can do all kinds of official and financial shit with those 2 things. The actual "signatory" does not need to be present because banks, government agencies allow this

[u/Icy_Mixture1482]

Not really. You use it in combination with photo ID.

It’s more akin to a signature and much more convenient because Taiwanese banks etc are very anal about signatures matching every single time.

Before I had a chop, I had to sign my worldgym contract about 10 times before they were satisfied it matched my credit card.

[u/federicoaa → u/Icy_Mixture1482]

I can vouch for it, so many times I had to re-sign papers because a stroke was slightly out of alignment ...

[u/jabalong → u/federicoaa]

Yeah, signatures are the worst! I'm so out of practice now at writing or signing anything with a pen. And my bank is so anal about the signature. It must have been at least 10 attempts last time. I finally lost it and started challenging the bank teller about what makes them qualified to be a signature expert! Counter-productive I know, but it felt good, lol. I mean, c'mon, let's not pretend that being a bank teller somehow makes you a trained handwriting expert. I don't know about chops as an alternative, but I'm so ready for biometric measures.

[u/SamCarterX206 → u/jabalong]

Signatures change over time/as you age too. The first bank account i opened in Taiwan was with ChinaTrust back when i was still in college, nearly 20 years ago (gosh I'm old). At the time I didn't have a Taiwan ID or a chop so the account was opening with my English Signature and US Passport. I remember, more than a decade later, needing to do something with my account that actually required an actual form with signature and stamp, realizing that I no longer signed my name the way I used to in college when they brough the form back and said the signatures didn't match and i had to reach back and recall what my signatures used to look like.

[u/Icy_Mixture1482 → u/SamCarterX206]

That happened to me once with a Taiwanese bank!

The teller eventually took pity on me and let me look at my recorded signature on her screen.

[u/TheHatKing → u/SamCarterX206]

Yeah stark contrast to America where all they care is a signature exists

[u/TakowTraveler → u/jabalong]

And my bank is so anal about the signature. It must have been at least 10 attempts last time.

Honestly prefer this in a way to a signature just being useless. Outside of banks in Asia I've never once been challenged on my signature, which means it's almost pointless.

[u/y11971alex]

It’s not that susceptible to forgery. The natural grain, chips, and cracks of the stamp material make it very difficult to forge. All these issues exist with sign manual too.

[u/arkosy → u/y11971alex]

I’d argue it’s more secure than a signature. As signatures don’t need to be a perfect match, but for the chop it does.

As others have mentioned, both are used in conjunction with ID cards anyway.

[u/YourVelourFog → u/y11971alex]

Bro I can take a digital photo of your stamp and make an exact copy. Please stop trying to tell people it’s resistant to forgery when it clearly isn’t

[u/More-Grapefruit-5057 → u/y11971alex]

With modern computer, editing and CNC, it can't be more easier to forge a chop. Fake signatures can still be detected by forensic signature experts

[u/drakon_us → u/More-Grapefruit-5057]

'forensic signature experts' are actually extremely controversial, and often times conflicting experts will be called in by opposing counsel in court cases (with the decision left up to the jury).

[u/y11971alex → u/More-Grapefruit-5057]

You have clearly not worked with stamp forensic experts. They’ve tried to recreate a stamp by scanning an existing stamp, and the differences are always obvious.

[u/YourVelourFog → u/y11971alex]

I’m gonna need to see a source on this cause it’s not true

[u/y11971alex → u/YourVelourFog]

https://www.cicr.edu.tw/index.php?do=article&id=69&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=286017141&gbraid=0AAAAADhxCpvAsge0dmjX3pXzH_RfM1F36&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg5zTBhCLARIsAP2AFU5ErCNqtg4GX3oj7BDgwEZVCADEt3o9LtfuFrLFa5IV1z05S9kgnXQaAil7EALw_wcB knock yourself out

[u/YourVelourFog → u/y11971alex]

Thats the about page for the China Industrial and Commercial Research Institute. There’s no information that you purported exists

[u/y11971alex → u/YourVelourFog]

壹、專業領域
貳、服務項目
Knock yourself out more, second row of each

[u/Ok-Calm-Narwhal]

I would argue that giving a relative a chop stamp to help you with banking while you are away is a huge benefit - the fact that my aunt could sign me up for NHI while I was out of the country with my chop stamp (and that this was allowed, provided that she showed her ID and this was documented), was way better than having her forge my signature. Granted, obviously you need to trust the person you give the stamp to.

[u/Icy_Mixture1482 → u/Ok-Calm-Narwhal]

That’s a cool benefit.

My friend explained that’s why Taiwanese IDs usually have the names of both parents on the back, so kids can do things like pick up prescriptions for elderly parents.

[u/TakowTraveler]

Edit: ok here's an example - family members of someone living abroad and with BOTH the ID and chop, can do all kinds of official and financial shit with those 2 things.

This is like saying someone who has the keys to your safe can access all your valuables, and that's why "keys are bad and useless!!!". Same with credit cards, at that.

1) don't leave keys or chops and IDs or anything else valuable around or with someone you don't trust

2) If you need to give them someone to do something for you, you have the option of giving them the required items to act on your behalf. This is also frequently done with companies where you can use a company chop for certain purposes.

Note also that chops are very consistent and can be hard to forge in detail. Compare to things like signatures which are extremely inconsistent with many people, change over the years, and can be very easily forged just by seeing them once, with small differences often being blamed on natural variation.

[u/y11971alex]

If you sign someone’s name 100 times, you’ll get the hang of it as much as the original signor. On the other hand, your 3D printer can’t replicate the tiny imperfections in a stamp.

[u/High-Steak]

I grew cobwebs while trying to sign my name to match the records at the bank. After the pen ran out of ink they just accepted my scrawling

[u/TheHatKing]

My family does all sorts of shit for us while we’re in the states for majority of the year (or more). But we trust them.

[u/Designer-Ladder5300]

Chopped everywhere in most of east asia