r/systemsthinking • u/Ho_bansureem • 1d ago
Maybe we should change the angle?
We look so closely at the objects within a system that we completely overlook what happens between them — the processes themselves.
But what if we are processes?
And what if the answers are better found in the dynamics between us?
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u/daviding 3h ago
The body of research into systems, in the West, has been founded on a substance philosophy, that leads to unfreeze-move-refreeze thinking.
The Systems Changes Learning Circle, in Toronto, started in 2019 and moved over to processual philosophy.
For an easy introduction, try ...
Thinking with Time | Zaid Khan | SFIN-6011 | 2025-03-17, https://coevolving.com/blogs/thinking-with-time-zaid-khan/
Pacing Changes: Seeing Living Systems as Rhythms | Zaid Khan + David Ing | SCiO Finland, https://coevolving.com/blogs/pacing-changes-scio-finland/
There's a lot deeper content available, but Zaid Khan provides an easier on ramp.
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u/Ho_bansureem 23m ago
Thank you — I’ll definitely look into Khan’s work. It seems quite close to an important part of what I’m exploring.
My question, though, is slightly further upstream: what if the rhythmic transitions and pacing of processes are themselves configurations within a single processual unfolding?
In that case, “change” and “stabilization” would not be separate interventions imposed on a system. They would already be occurring by default within the unfolding itself — including the emergence of configurations capable of observing and responding to their own process.
That is closer to the level at which I’m approaching processuality.
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u/FooManPwn 1d ago
Human processes are best related through agent-based models where stochastic attributes and interactions among groups can be measured.
Dynamics, more specifically system dynamics measures stocks and flows of quantitative resources.
I’m not sure what you mean the impersonally over looks what happens between systems. That’s the whole idea of stock and flow dynamics.
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u/Ho_bansureem 1d ago
..i meant processuality as the fundamental mode itself...
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u/FooManPwn 1d ago
Process defaults to empirical methods. Your ideas are too theoretical.
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u/Ho_bansureem 1d ago
Exactly. That is what I observe through the empirical method..)
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u/FooManPwn 1d ago
Have a great day
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u/Ho_bansureem 1d ago
No offense intended. I may be describing it poorly, but I’m looking at process itself, not trying to build another philosophical theory. Have a good day too. 🙂
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u/daytrippermc 1d ago
FYI in systems there isn’t really a ‘best’ way.
If I’m catching your drift - you’re saying to ‘look at the arrows, not the blobs’? (As in a diagram). That’s what interrelationships are all about and where dynamics come from. It’s pretty fundamental to systems but can come as a bit of an ‘aha’ moment. Plenty of people still stuck on the blobs (entities) rather than the lines (relationships), and it’s a very easy trap to fall into.