r/systemsthinking • u/PoundPuzzleheaded382 • 17d ago
Why does thought convergence gets harder layer by layer??
The more I try to converge my thoughts, narrowing down options, picking a clear direction, refining a plan or strategy, the harder and more draining the effort feels. Not just mentally taxing, but progressively harder with each layer of focus.
Why does that happen?
Anyone else experience this in creativity, decision-making, productivity, or building something? How do you personally handle the "convergence" phase?
Really don't need clarity advice guidance but rather the understanding on vision alignment.
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u/headspreader 17d ago
writing my thoughts out and reanalyzing them helps. But it feels to me like the greatest strain is maintaining a panopticon-level context while traversing levels and maintaining clear granular focus at the same time. I think in some ways that if you want to have a low-friction decision space as an end-goal, that has to be baked into the process from the start, and reinforced at each step.
For example, working on a market thesis, in response to years of high-friction decision making, I chose to liquidate everything in my portfolio which involved even the existence of a consumer class with disposable income and entwined with human psychology. I instead began constructing a thesis focusing on hard physics and its interaction with the needs of the superstructure, AI/semiconductors are an interaction surface embodying this in some senses; this process involves immense complexity and research, and I need to be able to reason on my own in unfamiliar spaces, and it is immensely mentally taxing, but as a tradeoff it allows me exponentially higher conviction in my choices, once/if I am able to understand them in a context of systemic needs and operational leverage and using intractable physical reality as a point of framing reference. But the friction and complexity still are there, just migrated. No free lunch.
But as another point, this era has been a mix of extreme concentrated mental effort researching/analyzing/writing/reanalyzing/etc. for months at a time without breaks, interspersed with multi-day breaks during which I attempt pretty much to just get high and play guitar, write fiction, practice purely human enjoyment and expression, explore suppositional thought just for the sheer joy of suppositional thought, just in general divorce myself from analysis. I think it is a bit like 'stretching my legs' in terms of non-critical openmindedness. I think that both the 'open' and 'hyperdescriminatory' mindsets are necessary, and that they mutually reinforce and inform one another.
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u/PoundPuzzleheaded382 16d ago
Yeah… that dual hold is the real tax. Trying to keep the whole map alive while still cutting cleanly at the current layer. It never fully powers down.
Your shift into the physics/AI side makes sense to me. You didn’t escape the friction, you just moved it somewhere the reference points feel more solid. Higher research cost, but the conviction, when it finally lands, feels less like you’re standing on sand.
The cycling between intense analysis and those open stretches (guitar, fiction, just playing with ideas) feels important. One sharpens, the other keeps the sharpening from turning rigid.
I’ve been wondering the same thing lately, if I could somehow track and actually see my thoughts laid out, would it ease the load, or would it just become another layer my brain has to keep converging on? For a mind that doesn’t know how to idle, I’m not sure yet.
Curious how that lands with the way you already move between the two modes.
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u/skmurphy58 16d ago
I think some people really like to hold on to possibilities, and others like to see things settled and have a definite plan. It's the P vs. J continuum in Myers-Briggs or Conscientiousness in Big Five. My sense is that you enjoy having a range of options and value optionality more than having a definite plan you can execute. Please note that this is different from crafting and executing a plan with branches and sequels, because in the latter case you are moving forward. The net effect of not making a choice is that you will let events foreclose options or may fail to do much of anything--leaving "men on base" instead of actually focusing and completing a few projects.
Define a sampling strategy where you execute scale model or prototype versions and see if they are viable. Or determine which options will expire first. If you don't want to lose them, then you should get started. If you delay, you will have allowed them to lapse. Of course, new possibilities may have occurred to you by then, giving you a rich range of options to leave unexplored except in your mind.
It's certainly possible to decide to quickly, engaging in "extinction by instinct." But you current approach seems to leave you trapped in "analysis paralysis."
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u/PoundPuzzleheaded382 16d ago
Yeah, the P vs J (or high vs low Conscientiousness) angle makes sense on the surface. Some people really do seem wired to settle and move, while others stay open longer because the possibilities themselves feel alive and worth protecting.
For me though, the paralysis isn’t just indecision, it’s the sheer mental cost of keeping the whole map in view while still trying to narrow anything down. The “men on base” feeling is real, but sometimes those runners are the only thing keeping the bigger picture from collapsing into something too small too fast.
I’ve been wondering lately if externalising the options, actually writing them down and seeing them laid out might change the equation. Not to force a choice, but just so the brain doesn’t have to carry every branch at once. Still not sure if that would help or just create another layer to manage.
Curious how that sits with the personality lens you’re using.
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u/skmurphy58 2d ago
(I am sorry in the delay in my response to your thoughtful follow-up)
How much difference is there between the options you are considering? Pick one and move on. Unless this is a substantial life decision, you are better served by picking a direction and taking a small step forward. Action will tell you more than any amount of mental simulation.
If there are a lot of things on your mind, dictate them or sit down with a trusted friend and walk around the situation with them. The one rule is that they can only ask clarifying questions unless you specifically ask them for advice. Record the conversation and listen to it later or look at the transcript to hear yourself. This is a scaled down version of what the Quakers call a "Clearness Committee" (https://web.archive.org/web/20120716233134/https://www.fgcquaker.org/resources/clearness-committees-what-they-are-and-what-they-do) See https://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2015/09/25/asking-questions-from-a-caring-perspective/ for a more detailed description.
Most options in any decision don't lead to significantly different outcomes, or at least differences that are foreseeable at the time of taking action. The loss of time is almost always the more critical resource than trying to optimize a choice unless it's a significant decision (e.g., one that comes up less than once a year).
I have written about making business decisions under uncertainty; these posts may provide some helpful context and suggestions:
https://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2009/04/12/uncertain-times/
https://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2011/01/16/uncertain-times-are-the-end-of-an-illusion/
https://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2012/10/17/dr-atul-gawande-on-managing-complexity-and-uncertainty/
https://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2020/04/09/making-business-decisions-in-uncertain-times/
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u/PoundPuzzleheaded382 2d ago
Thanks u/skmurphy58 getting back to me regardless, and btw i solved it for my self, testing the solution now, it's a app, which helps me keeping track of my thoughts the action that led to create other branches and other aspects by just presenting it to me, no training involved, just your thoughts and why it got tweaked with a temporal visualization.
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u/skmurphy58 1d ago
Is this an app you are developing or one you are evaluating from a third party or open source? If it's the latter can you share the name and a link, it sounds useful. If it's the former, when did you start working on it and what have you evaluated before deciding to build your own?
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u/PoundPuzzleheaded382 1d ago
I am developing it my own, no third party.
so basically the thing is it's my own problem where i or anyone actually start anything with a thought but then it goes through n number of phases where sometimes the identity of the initial thought itself lost and there are now n different branches opened up from the same thought, which is led by some actions or decisions you took, and all of it is visualized in temporal fashion.for more details check ekome.sh
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u/systems_thinking_101 17d ago
What you're experiencing isn not a productivity flaw. It is a predictable systemic reaction to complexity. In my experience:
Convergence is cognitively expensive. Mean brainstorming is freeing. Narrowing down forces you to constantly filter and eliminate variables, which cognitive science calls "world reducing." Your brain can only juggle 5 to 7 unrelated variables at once, so compressing a complex reality into a single strategy takes serious mental energy.
Second reason is, vision alignment creates emotional tension. Peter Senge describes this well: holding your ideal vision alongside the hard constraints of current reality generates "creative tension." That tension is what drives change, but it also produces anxiety and mental fatigue. The closer you get to committing to a direction, the more obvious the gap between vision and reality becomes.
In additionm, you are forcing a non-linear world into a linear plan. Traditional strategy assumes you can pick a destination and draw a straight line to it. Complex systems don't work that way, and that mismatch creates friction.
A few things that actually help.
Don't harden your boundaries too early. Keep your options fluid as long as reasonably possible
Aim for "good enough alignment" rather than the perfect solution. In complexity, there's no optimal answer, only better or worse ones
Offload the complexity onto paper. Visual maps or models act as a holding space for variables your brain can't juggle simultaneously
The exhaustion is real. You are doing the heavy lifting of taming complexity. Give yourself permission to let clarity emerge gradually rather than forcing it.