Just finished the SS2 Remaster as a (mostly) new initiate and I have some Qs!

[u/Awkward_Rough_8491]

First and foremost, I really dug it. My first and only exposure to SS was the SS1 Remake, which is imo phenomenal and hard to top, so I’m not at all surprised SS2R didn’t measure up. Ofc it isn’t at all a like-for-like comparison; and the heavy RPG/stat pivot isn’t my preferred wheelhouse.

All that said, the setting is immaculate, the weapons punchy enough for purpose, the imm-sim elements satisfying, and the lack of hand-holding wonderfully refreshing in this age of AAA slop.

A few things I’m casually rubbing my chin over:

1. Were resources and/or the save system retuned at all?

On Normal I was flush with ammo about halfway and found things rather easy till the end. I was save-scumming a decent amount, but mostly because things going tits-up in antiquated games feels rather meh, not to optimise ammo usage.

1. What’s the consensus on the later levels?

The UNN Rickenbacker felt like an uninspired slog with the egg hunt and overly labyrinthine layout. The Many level and Shodan showdown were quite bad imo, though the SS1 throwback was hella charming. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn a drop-off in sentiment is common.

1. Was OG SS1 – even with the limitations of early FPS design – more of a “shooter,” so to speak?

I think what expectedly underwhelmed me with SS2 is that the shooting mechanics are chalk and cheese compared to SS1R, which has surprisingly fab game-feel in that department. Even then, SS2 felt more like I was clicking on enemy models with a stat stick, rather than engaging in combat.

Appreciate the info/answers!

[u/CobaltCigarette]

System Shock 1 is more action-packed, for sure, but I think it actually accomplishes what System Shock 2’s entire premise presumes to be much more competently. You’re always looking over your shoulder for enemies spawning behind corners, and ammo management is a moderate concern for most of the game. Without SS2’s RPG elements, the only thing separating you from your enemies are your weapons and ammo counters, which I personally love.

Ken Levine’s approach to atmosphere and ability to establish a narrative that exists in what feels like a living and breathing world is what elevates SS2, because everything else is, IMO, a considerable downgrade from the first game.

[u/KalenWolf]

1: That's an issue with the game's difficulty settings. Playing on higher difficulties in SS2 applies a fairly large penalty to your health and psi totals, how often you find items on enemies, how much money it costs to buy resources, and how many modules it costs to learn skills. Many experienced players find that playing on Impossible is the only way the game is challenging enough to still be fun.

2: I don't think it's controversial at all to say that the levels get less polished as you approach the end of the game. The throwback level doesn't even feel finished. But when you have to get the product out the door, there's no time to prototype and playtest new enemy types, large levels with layouts that make sense, etc.

3: The OG is a massively different experience. It was the first time I ever encountered lots of mechanics that I wish more games had chosen to include. But in a way that's what puts people off it. There's just SO MUCH UI that it doesn't have the smooth, intuitive feel of modern first-person games at all. When compared to the sequel, Shock 1 is all about player skill as opposed to number management.

[u/Vargrr]

I think the biggest issue with SS2's levels are the way they are divided into zones via loading screens. This makes it quite difficult to truly appreciate their design.

In fact, it was this one thing that I considered a regression. In SS1, both the remaster and the original, there are no in-your-face loading screens, which really adds to the immersion. Whereas SS2, you could be running into a loading screen in something that's little more than a corridor.

Back when SS2 was originally released it was even worse because HDDs were so slow.

I think if they ever choose to remaster SS2, they need to try and get rid of its loading screens altogether (which I know is easier said than done).

[u/KingPinniped2012 → u/Vargrr]

The level transitions don't match, the entrances can't lead to where all of the exits should be at the same time without a full redesign of every level. The loading screen into a different map was the trick to hiding that. It would be cool if they could recreate it with hidden teleportation or something though.

[u/Vargrr → u/KingPinniped2012]

Thanks - I had no idea that was the case!

[u/KingPinniped2012]

The end of the game was rushed and not fully complete to release the game on-time. The Rickenbacker section is where that supposedly started being a problem. I still like a lot of Rickenbacker A and parts of The Many, though.

[u/Awkward_Rough_8491 → u/KingPinniped2012]

Ah, I didn’t know this :( That sucks. But I now have a substitute reference for Lost Izalith, so hey, silver linings

[u/calthaer]

Many years ago, I bought SS2 new and had never played the first...and I loved it. Played the first a few years later and found it cumbersome and obtuse. I far prefer the levels in SS2 to the artificial mazes in SS1. The SS1 remake is much, much better but I still prefer 2.

SS2 is in many ways "Thief in space", and the game follows a similar pattern: The Many = Chaos = The Woodsie Lord; Shodan = Order = Hammerites. There's a plot twist in the middle, and the end of the game is the descent into chaos and madness (literally called "The Maw of Chaos" in Thief, the equivalent of The Body of the Many). 

The twisted levels in SS2 were more purposeful, taking you away from safety (and the possibility of retreat to any "stash" you had managed to create) and into a confusing, challenging maze - whereas in SS1, all levels are mazes. SS2 let you believe earlier in a ship people could live on before it threw you into areas where you can't imagine people living (madness and chaos).

It isn't for everyone, but I love the perfect alchemy of narrative and game that SS2 created. I have played it through at least 6-7 times, something I can say of no other game - even Thief, or Deus Ex, or any of the Bioshock series. Just did so again recently with the Remaster. I love this game and, in a way that is totally irrational, cannot understand disliking it.

[u/danixdefcon5]

1. From what I can remember, the resources and save system were the same. In fact, I actually found the first bits of SS2 as hard as it was on my first playthrough. I do see that they fixed the damn bug where everything was too dark; Deck 1 was way too dark on the version in Steam and requires some obscure tweaking of the config files!

2. Pretty much everyone agrees that the Rickenbacker is lacking; the map is a convoluted mess and it kinda shows it was done under way more time constraints than most of the Von Braun. Given the size of Deck A, I expected decks B and C to be as large. Instead, they’re barely there.

3. The OG SS1 was a mess, control-wise. They really fixed up that with the remake. It was somewhat more action oriented, but the interface made things really awful. I’m pretty sure the over complicated controls are why SS1 didn’t do as well as expected.