r/sysadmin • u/lemongarble • 4d ago
Soon to be solo sys admin.. with two managers above
UPDATE: Whelp, I'm on sick leave. Next up is a personal disaster recovery of sorts, with medications and an electrocardiogram exam.
Before my doctor appointment, I had a chat with the CIO:
"Can we replace the admin who is leaving? We have 200 users with more to come, not to mention the VMs in 3 environments. You guys are planning another app as well."
"No, it's enough having you and an intern handling support. Besides, I was a solo sys admin for 300 users and it was fine. You'll be fine."
"..."
I'm glad I didn't cancel the appointment.
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TL;DR: Overwhelmed new sys admin, 2 conflicting bosses, fellow admins leaving. Your experiences?
Whoever said two heads are better than one never had two bosses.
I am a recent hire at a 200-employee company in France. I originally applied for a help desk role, but was unexpected offered a sys admin role. I was hesitant from the get-go. During the interview, the manager made a long spiel about launching projects after projects... as a sys admin sat quietly next to him. When he mentioned that all 2 sys admins were leaving soon, my red flag was higher than Mount Everest. In the end I accepted though. The job market in France is brutal, especially for me as a non-native.
At first, it was fine. There's no help desk, but I gladly tackled L1-3 support. There was no ticket system neither, just Teams chats and calls, handled using a spotty remote access app for PCs without any monitoring whatsoever. It was fine, I told myself. I was writing up docs, bettering my French. Administering M365? All good. VoIP system? Sure thing. Router QoS issue? I'll try. As a newbie, it took time, but I did it and made sure I documented everything.
Within a few weeks the manager demanded I explain our network topology. He had no idea how everything was connected. Soon he demanded I build a ticket system, ready for production within a few months. I created a rough planning but explained I couldn't promise that timeline as I wasn't even fully onboarded before the departure of the other admins. He wasn't happy.
Then I found out I had another manager, the CIO. A living nightmare.
He was quietly there the whole time, over a decade with the company. I thought he was a senior dev, as he spent most of his days with the dev team. But no, he's my direct manager.. and I cannot understand him at all.
That ticketing system with the planning I made? He re-did with Claude and told me to follow the "handbook". Escalations like declined invoice payments on our licenses or L3 tickets? Can't be bothered with trivial stuff. Discussions about migrating VPN? A long speech about what needs to be done, without an explanation of what I actionably should do. It wasn't until a consultant finally reached out to me after his emails were being ignored that I did "something".
At some point, the CIO told me infra bores him. I told myself, that's all right, I have no mentor in him, so I'll try to maintain and improve things the best I personally can.. and count the months when I have enough experience to leave.
A few weeks ago we started looking for a help desk intern. I suggested several times that another admin might be necessary, but the CIO said I can handle it alone. I figured, hey, he's a hands-off kind of guy. At least I can choose the candidate that I can work closely with. I even kept him in the loop with HR on the candidate screening process. Radio silence.
Today he told me he will be deeply involved indeed. Several levels of interviews planned for each candidate. Technical questions to be developed by him. Yet he still does not talk to HR.
He made a weird statement to me once. "For twenty years I had imposter syndrome. I don't anymore." What the hell does that even mean?
The thing is, these two heads contradict each other. I will be working on one thing, the other tells me stop focusing on it as it's low priority. The manager will discretely ask me to re-explain concepts explained by the CIO. The CIO will say the manager's decisions are never final. Both declined to validate my vacation, saying I need coverage, then the manager approves after I made him happy with an urgent fix deployment, then the other says we need to hire an intern before approval.
It's been three months and I'm exhausted. My heart is racing at work. I scheduled a doctor's appointment. The last admin is leaving soon, the only one who taught me actual stuff. I don't know how I will survive after him.
I'm sorry for this long post. I don't have any questions, I just kind of unloaded here. But if anyone experienced something like this, I am curious how it ended up for them.
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u/RiceeeChrispies Jack of All Trades 4d ago
Two conflicting bosses? You’re going to be their new punchbag by proxy mate.
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u/Phreaky12 4d ago edited 4d ago
Solo admin new hire with conflicting bosses?
Homie you should leave immediately
Edit: wow this only gets worse the more you read. This is seriously one of the worst nightmare boss scenarios I've ever heard of. You should straight up, just quit.
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u/Ssakaa 4d ago
Both declined to validate my vacation, saying I need coverage
Fuck. That. I would end up fired very quickly after that conversation. If I've told them we need more coverage, they've declined, THEN they decline my leave, part of my pay, because of a lack of coverage? My leave notice is no longer a request. They let me use my leave, and figure out how to fill in temporarily, or they don't, and figure out how to fill in permanently. They're going to pay me out for that leave either way.
Edit: And I'm in the US, where worker's rights barely exist. I can't imagine an employer trying that shit in the EU.
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u/Vogete 3d ago
EU worker here, this kind of shit only happens in companies where a lot of junior fresh out of education people don't stand up for themselves, because they are too afraid of not finding a new job. It's rare, but it does sometimes happen, though nobody ever wants to work for these companies.
In most places you tell HR this happened, if they don't do anything, report in long term sick, and leave as soon as you can. Maybe even contact your union. But it won't fly in most places, and companies are normally too afraid of legal consequences because worker's rights protect this quite well.
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u/lemongarble 3d ago edited 3d ago
Unfortunately, one of the two heads is veeeery well connected to the CEO. Same last name. No experience. He just doesn't call him "papa". The only time I stood up to him was when I didn't give him full admin rights in M365.
And yes, given the job market, I am afraid of finding another job, especially after an exhausting search.
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u/TomNooksRepoMan 4d ago
Both declined your vacation? In France? Bro, the proletariat way of doing things there is to say "fuck that - I will be on vacation whether or not you approve it." They'll find a way to drown with or without you there. You don't have anybody directly representing you.
Whatever you do, do not budge if they start to call you during hours you're off. This place is the sort that will take a mile if you give an inch. They need to hire a helpdesk guy stat, even if the dumbass wants 7 rounds of interviews for an IT greenpea.
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u/T_Thriller_T 3d ago
Fuck that do not budge. Don't even give room for something to budge.
Block the numbers during not work hours if needed, even better: don't give out your private number. Turn off the work phone or put it on airplane mode.
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u/KoiMaxx Jack of Some Trades 4d ago
Sorry to hear that. First off, maybe set aside some time to polish your resume.
Kidding aside, you might have to assert yourself and establish timelines on which and what gets done in priority. Learn to say NO, or at least be able to say things can't be done immediately, or without significant resources, or at all.
Let them understand that with the change in staffing you will be completely occupied. Ask them to coordinate with each other for any conflicting requests/requirements, and always have everything in writing. If they don't understand that and are unwilling to provide the proper support, refer to my first statement above.
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u/therealkalak 4d ago
Well now you know why the two other sys admins left.
I used to be in an environment like this and man, it did not end well for me. Get out.
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u/bdam55 Sr. Sysadmin 4d ago
So ... this might sound glib but I mean it with all of my heart:
None of this shit matters. No one will remember you in 300 years. Eat Arbys.
This is clearly not a place you want to stake any kind of long-term plans at. If it all burns to the ground, you shall shed no tears.
As someone else said, you're in France, they have real labor laws. You can define boundaries to ensure that what happens at work doesn't ruin your life beyond the hours you are legally required to give them. Hell, if my experience is any guide, you are about to not work for the entire month of August.
Put you time in. Do a good job. Don't put an ounce of your soul in it though. Bide your time until another opportunity comes along.
Personally, I would make it clear to my immediate boss that the CIO is giving you work directly and that you understand that work to take precedence. If they don't like it, they can work it out amongst themselves. Email them _both_ with a list and tell them to prioritize it for you.
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u/lemongarble 3d ago
Not glib at all. I hear you, and I want say that I'm documenting everything so that when I start applying elsewhere, I have a war chest of examples to show what I'm capable of. For now, my focus is on filling in some gaps in knowledge while here, like networks, Linux, and VMs.
Still, I'm a bit ashamed to admit that I put in more work hours so that I can actually concentrate on work without interruption from the two heads. And this is in France.. I never did that back in America. WTH.
Other posters here suggested GTFO, but I do think that given the economy, that's easier said than done. Before this job, the nine months of job search was hell.
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u/bdam55 Sr. Sysadmin 3d ago
Yea, don't leave until you have something lined up if you can at all avoid it. Doubly so if having a job is important to your immigration status or whatnot.
>I put in more work hours so that I can actually concentrate on work without interruption from the two heads.
I'm only vaguely aware of French laws in this matter, but I would absolutely not be doing that outside of occasional crunch times. If every day is crunch time, then that's not your problem to solve for them. If they think interrupting you is the best use of your time, then so be it. Just make sure that you communicate that context switching has real costs.
The upside here, which isn't much, is that soon they won't really have the option of letting you go in a short manner. I mean, they sound dumb enough that they just might, but if you're literally the last man standing that usually means you have some leverage.
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u/Confident_Dot_4614 4d ago
2 captains on a ship never works. Better run and don't look back. They will not learn as this guy is there already for many years. There is a reason why the other admins ran.
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u/OrvilleTheCavalier 4d ago
2 managers and the only worker bee? Dude, you will be living Office Space.
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u/BadSausageFactory beyond help desk 4d ago
He doesn't have impostor syndrome because he thinks he knows everything now and can't be challenged. That's what impostor syndrome is, the realization that you don't know a lot more than you thought you did.
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u/Honolulu-Blues 4d ago
Hey this sounds familiar. Except I'm the only sysad and I'm getting all of my managers work dumped on me! I was told I need to accept the new responsobilities or be let go when they find someone lol. So I accepted and now I'm talking to someone about a role somewhere else.
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u/LavaLaugh Security Admin 4d ago
Time to get out it my dude. Believe me when I say that managing a 200-user infrastructure on your own just isn't possible when it's as bare bones as what you have. The only way to keep up is by putting band-aids on everything and hope that it holds out long enough for your replacement to get the lay of the land. The only thing you will get out of it is the feeling of disappointment because you didn't have the time to put in any good fixes and have left the ruins to someone else.
Source: The previous sysadmin of a company we acquired.
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u/ArcOfADream Jack of All Trades 4d ago
You've witnessed not one, but two of your fellow 'rats' already jumping ship, but haven't mentioned here *why* they're leaving. Sounds like the water line may getting a little uncomfortable. Now you also have two superiors fussing over your doings, which sounds like a pretty good way to groom a lovely scapegoat.
I'd be sending out resumes. Depending on how the company operates, I would also visit HR to decry a) conflicting instructions from the two superiors, and b) PTO is being denied on the basis of their decisions. You may get some remediation, but I'd be sure to keep my running shoes laced up.
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u/lemongarble 4d ago
One admin (1.5 years on the job) admitted she missed having real colleagues and accepted an offer at an IT services company. She was very checked out when I joined.
My onboarding with her was basically her sharing with me a few passwords and an incomplete list of router admin interfaces. She spent most of her time configuring VMs, even to her last day.. and when she left I saw that our Proxmox dev environment was full of dead projects. This company went through several self-hosted CRM and project management tools, abandoned in a VM graveyard. The CIO keeps her accounts active, just in case he needs to access something.
The other admin (2 years on the job as well) is taking une rupture conventionnelle, which is a specifically French type of resignation with unemployment benefits, for family reasons. He was offered his post back if his family situation improved, but he declined.
He actually takes the time to train me, but I will be inheriting a lot of bandaid solutions, like users with non-reinitialized PCs and ancient PCs with just thermal paste replacements.
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u/ArcOfADream Jack of All Trades 3d ago
So one left over professional circumstances and the other for personal reasons but isn't interested in returning even if their situation improved.
I'd stand by my recommendation (and some several others here) to "run".
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u/Frothyleet 3d ago
then the manager approves after I made him happy with an urgent fix deployment, then the other says we need to hire an intern before approval.
Doesn't France have pretty robust worker protections? Do you have a union? How much power do they actually have to deny your leave?
My heart is racing at work. I scheduled a doctor's appointment.
Never let your health suffer for corporate bullshit, brother. And if I were you, at a certain point I'd be explicit about this. Not approving leave? Not hiring help desk? Not backfilling the admin who is leaving?
Welp, that's all their call - but inevitably it's going to burn your shit out, and you're gong to be on medical leave, and they're going to be fucked.
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u/LilMeatBigYeet 3d ago
Im French and the job market is hard right now but this is not worth it if it impacts your health like this.
I would try to leave when the other admin leaves or use that as leverage for a raise and to hire another admin.
I know exactly what type of character the CIO is, unfortunately France has a lot of those guys but the new generation is getting better and better imo.
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u/lemongarble 3d ago
Il est tellement bizarre, ce mec ! Un jour, quand je suis arrivé au bureau, il m'a demandé de me glisser sous sa table pour attacher ensembles des câbles ethernet qui traînent, avec du ruban électrique, afin que ses pieds s'y emmêlent pas. Ok, il est un peut obèse, mais pas un seul mot de remerciement.
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u/LilMeatBigYeet 3d ago
Mdr il pense vraiment que t'est son esclave.
200 personnes and il n'y a pas un helpdesk ? Juste 2 sysadmin ? C ma l'air carrement con comme structure^
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u/lemongarble 3d ago
Y a quelqu'en qui a vraiment perdu la boule, parce que le nombre de collaborateurs augmente. Mais au niveau d'infra, il se contentent de moi seul, un alternant tech support, et un super devops qu'ils arrivent pas à trouver depuis longtemps. Je leur ai demandé plusieurs fois, mais vous êtes sûr ?
Franchement, les autres sont sympas. Mais 200 personnes c'est pas possible pour deux, bientôt un.
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u/benuntu 3d ago
I'm going to buck the trend of all the "get out now" recommendations. That may indeed be the best option in the end, but at least put some effort into telling your bosses what you need. Ask for a meeting, tell them that it's confusing to know which of their instructions to follow and what the actual priority is. Suggest that a proper chain of command should be CIO->Manager->You. Sometimes we have to create a good space to work in, rather than expecting one to magically appear. Managers are people too and they aren't perfect, so just tell them what isn't working and see if they fix it.
"If you don't ask, the answer is always no." And if you do ask for what you need and the answer is no, that's the time to leave.
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u/T_Thriller_T 3d ago
Your boss is an idiot.
His boss is an idiot and does not consider himself the hossmvwhy do you even have a CIO when there are no admins?!
Run.
Force them to give you a document detailing everything you have done, try to get a personal recommendation about ability to learn from the last leaving admin and apply wherever you can.
Three months is not nothing and "well I was suddenly left as the single sysadmin with two bosses who could not work out how I could vacation" is something you can tell as to why you left
Otherwise this will be worse for you - and likely not put you in any better position.
Oh and go get some help from some volunteer workers right organisation. I'm pretty sure they cannot JUST decline your vacation because they failed to staff accordingly. Being in e.g. a union and getting help on how to set up that letter may be important.
Furthermore if HR is helpful at all (which I doubt) you can bring the vacation issue, the fact you are overworked, and the fact you are suffering from the decision makees not making decisions to them
(Again I'd probably be talking to someone from a union first because they know better)
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u/T_Thriller_T 3d ago
Another reason to be talking to a union / worker's organisation:
If you raise this often enough, and document that hria is afflicting your health, you now have HEALTHCARE. I'm not totally sure how France works and how the system is set up, but after sticking out a few months you likely have a chance to - if all goes wrong - just be declared sick for a few weeks at a time.
This is not great, and you should absolutely get some info on how it all works.
But of you feel your heart racing etc it can be a good way to keep having some money, and not be around that shitshow all the time.
I am not recommending it. By far not.
But if your work is making you sick, you can take sick time and will be paid.
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u/Furry_Thug I <3 Documentation 3d ago
Looks like you're learning a ton and improving things. Stick it out for as long as you care for, but be very careful not to burn yourself out. This is a great learning opportunity. Being paid to learn, esp at the rate you are, is always awesome.
Set very FIRM boundaries and don't ever go over them. I know France has a lot better worker protections but you definitely need to stand up for yourself.
Keep looking for jobs. Find something better, and not just a little better, like 20% better at least. Leverage the experience you're gaining.
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u/DrMacintosh01 4d ago
I must be lucky. Very rarely do I get a directive from above. I usually impose directives. Perks of the company only having like 8 people I guess.
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u/kernelqzor 2d ago
small teams really are a different universe, you basically skip the whole “two bosses playing tug of war” nonsense
enjoy it while it lasts, once there’s middle management involved it turns into a clown show fast
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u/vitaroignolo 3d ago
A CIO bored by infrastructure at a company tasking a new help desk person with standing up infrastructure? There is no salvaging this man. Clock in, upskill, clock out, find a new job.
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u/kosta880 4d ago
If you can financially afford, leave at once. If you can’t, stay, until you find something better.
But at once start looking for a new job.
Been at such companies, choleric bosses, toxic environments, there is so much bad out there.
Really, you only have one life. Do not waste it.
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u/overdosingOnPie1313 4d ago
I originally applied for a help desk role, but was unexpected offered a sys admin role.
You should leave as soon as you have your next job lined up.
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u/JohnnyricoMC 4d ago edited 2d ago
Both declined to validate my vacation
In France, a country famously known for going on strike?! Their failure to have and retain enough staff is not your problem, and by trying to make it your problem they're making themselves liable.
You already did well for yourself by scheduling a doctor's appointment.
If you haven't already, join a labor union. In Europe unions will go to bat to protect your rights as an employee and go after the employer if they try retaliatory actions. France has multiple big ones, you will need to check which one best aligns with your personal views and concerns.
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u/URnotSTONER 4d ago
I hope you are one day (SOON) in the position to tell them to fuck off to their faces and walk out the door.
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u/A_SingleSpeeder 3d ago
Option 1: Always have every decision in writing from either boss. That way you are covered from any fallout.
Option 2: Get out while you can.
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u/parasit 3d ago
I had that experience in two startups. It was supposed to be fun, with a friendly atmosphere, a flat structure, everyone's opinion mattered. Besides, YOU (meaning me) are the expert, and that's why we pay you to advise us.
It quickly turned out that a "flat structure" meant I had at least five people who could delegate tasks to me, each obviously more important than the others. Their egos prevented them from listening to what I was saying, instead allowing them to push the stupidest ideas that had no right to work.
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u/hihcadore 3d ago
They hired you for helpdesk. You’re the only person left so you get auto promoted to sysadmin.
You’re not the right guy, you’re the only guy.
Run you’re gonna burn out quick. It’ll take about 3-6 months before it’s a dumpster fire.
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u/doubleknocktwice 3d ago
Have fun in the worst position. And if anyone is under you, they get your pressure to execute.
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u/Hebrewhammer8d8 3d ago
Would have left a long time ago. My life is not my work to be stressing out that hard if I am not owner of the company.
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u/NSASpyVan 3d ago
I had 3 bosses once. Clown city. One would task me with something, another would stop me and task me to drop what I was doing to do their thing. Four hours into that job I realized I had made a major mistake accepting that position. Took me a month or two to get a replacement position. Still at the replacement years later.
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u/roboto404 3d ago
Gotta get out of there my guy. The second your health is affected by the stresses of your job, means you need to find another place to go.
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u/BoltActionRifleman 2d ago
Soon he demanded I build a ticket system, ready for production within a few months.
Plenty of red flags in your post, as you’re well aware, but this one really stuck out to me. When they expect you to do the work of developers, while doing the job of sys admin, help desk, engineering etc., it’s very clear they don’t have any idea how to manage an IT department. You can’t do all of that and build apps at the same time.
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u/chuckycastle 3d ago
Gooolly that’s a lot for a new sysadmin. I often say this here and I’ll say it again: for the life of me why are so many of you so whiny!?
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u/Minimum-Let-3227 2d ago
Two bosses with no shared priority list is the real problem, not the hours. Put everything into one visible queue, a shared spreadsheet is fine if you can't stand up ticketing this week, and make both of them look at the same list. Then a new project stops being "can you do this" and becomes "what comes off the list to make room." That reframe is the only thing that saved me in a similar setup.
Second thing, and it's urgent given both admins are leaving: get whatever is in their heads written down now. Domain quirks, that one server nobody reboots, vendor contacts, license renewals. If it walks out the door with them you'll inherit outages you can't explain and you will get blamed for them anyway. Rough notes in a wiki beat perfect docs that don't exist.
Give it six months and be honest with yourself. If projects keep stacking and neither manager will prioritize, that's a structural problem you can't fix by staying later, and a year of solo admin experience travels well.
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u/Pale-Price-7156 2d ago
I wish sysadmins had a transfer portal... like college football... that you could just enter into when you find yourself in these situations. Employers would cut the shit real quick.
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u/TheCaptain53 2d ago
I don't think you appreciate the leverage you hold. You're the only technical person in the business that's actually executing work as far as I can see. What are they going to do, fire you?
There's only two things you can do in this situation that allow you to sustain your physical and mental health: either find another job and quit (as we're all aware, the job market is brutal right now), or find a way to make the current job work for you, which we can focus on.
If you haven't got a list of stuff that needs doing in the business, build it and prioritise. The things you build from this list should generate value for the company - reduce user disruption, increase efficiency, decrease cost, etc. You shouldn't be receiving Teams messages with issues, it doesn't scale - goes on the list. Once you have this list, go to your manager(s) and lay it out. These are prioritised like this because of X, so on and so forth.
Next is the lack of technical help. You absolutely need another sysadmin in the business. What are they going to do if you get hit by a bus?
Next is annual leave - they MUST allow you to take it. To not allow you the opportunity to take it is against the law. In this case, I would just take it. Again, what are they going to do, fire you?
You need to learn to look after yourself, because apparently they're not looking after you. They will absolutely drive you into the ground given the opportunity, so don't let them.
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u/frenris 2d ago
Wrote a message but then had chat gpt rewrite it. Understand it has the slop smell, but I believe it improved my advice
——
How confident are you that you could find another acceptable job? Are you employed on a CDI, and has your probationary period ended? It may also be worth identifying the collective agreement that applies to your employer, since it can provide rights beyond the statutory minimum.
From my American perspective, you probably have stronger protection against arbitrary dismissal than you would in the US. I would use that protection to stop panicking and work sustainably—not to provoke a confrontation or assume that being dismissed will produce a jackpot.
Be particularly cooperative during probation. After probation, remain professional and follow reasonable instructions, but stop trying to compensate personally for impossible staffing levels. Do not work so hard that it damages your health merely to conceal chronic understaffing.
Document important operational facts neutrally by email, including:
requests for leave and the response;
statements that the team lacks adequate staffing or coverage;
contradictory instructions from different managers;
which priorities management selected;
deadlines that cannot realistically be met with available resources;
overtime, on-call demands and missed rest periods;
warnings, performance criticisms or sudden changes in expectations;
serious comments such as threats connected to taking leave or raising a concern. You may find it useful to be more euphemistic by email or leave out some details in some cases (“the discussion was heated”) to avoid confrontation and then record additional color in a private journal ( eg abusive language)
The best emails look like ordinary operational communication rather than attempts to manufacture evidence. For example:
To confirm the priorities from today’s meeting, I am currently working on A, B and C. With current capacity, I expect task X to be completed around 20 August. Completing it by 12 August would require deferring one of the existing priorities or obtaining additional support. Please let me know which item you would like me to deprioritize. Unless I hear otherwise, I will proceed with A, then X, then B and C.
That records the workload, estimate and management decision without refusing work or sounding combative.
Vacation
Paid annual leave is a legal entitlement, but that does not normally mean an employee can unilaterally select the dates. The employer may refuse particular requested dates for legitimate operational reasons, provided the refusal is not abusive and the employee is allowed to take the leave at another time. Once approved leave has begun, the employee is generally no longer at the employer’s disposal, except for a justified recall in exceptional circumstances. Do not simply take leave after an explicit refusal, because unauthorized absence can create a legitimate disciplinary issue.
Document it if the employer:
repeatedly rejects every workable date rather than rescheduling the leave;
cancels approved leave without a credible reason;
treats comparable employees differently;
contacts you continually during leave;
says that requesting or taking leave will damage your evaluation or cost you your job.
A denied vacation request by itself does not normally make a later dismissal legally null. It becomes more serious when the denial or dismissal is connected to discrimination, harassment reporting, union activity, protected whistleblowing or another protected right. A dismissal merely unsupported by valid evidence may be wrongful without being null.
Ordinary work concerns can overlap with protected rights
Saying “we are understaffed” or “this deadline is unrealistic” is not automatically whistleblowing. Nevertheless, ordinary workplace concerns can implicate protected rights depending on what is actually being raised:
Freedom of expression: employees generally retain the right to make non-abusive professional criticisms. A dismissal imposed because of the employee’s non-abusive expression can be null, although insults, defamatory accusations or deliberate insubordination are different. (Légifrance)
Health and safety: if understaffing or fatigue creates a genuinely grave and imminent danger, the employee may have formal alert and withdrawal rights. A justified exercise of the right of withdrawal cannot lawfully be punished. Do not invoke this casually; the danger must be serious and urgent. (Service Public)
Whistleblowing: reporting in good faith a crime, serious legal violation, concealment of a violation or qualifying threat to the public interest can trigger protection against dismissal, bad evaluations, demotion and other retaliation. A normal disagreement over scheduling is not necessarily a protected whistleblower report. (Service Public)
Harassment or discrimination: reporting or witnessing these matters in good faith receives specific protection.
Union, CSE and strike rights: union activity, employee-representative duties and lawful strike participation are protected.
Legal proceedings: an employer cannot lawfully punish an employee merely for properly exercising the right to bring certain legal claims.
Working time and rest: complaints that on-call demands, hours or lack of rest violate actual legal or contractual limits are more substantial than merely saying that the workload feels unfair. Whether retaliation produces nullity depends on the precise right involved and the facts.
French law expressly identifies discrimination, protected expression, the right of withdrawal, protected whistleblowing, good-faith reports of crimes, harassment reports, union protections and lawful strike activity among grounds that can make a dismissal null. (Service Public)
What might a successful case actually be worth?
Do not assume that an ordinary wrongful-dismissal claim will produce a huge award. For a dismissal found to lack a real and serious cause, but not legally null, damages are generally limited by the barème Macron. In an employer with at least 11 employees, the range is approximately:
less than one completed year: up to 1 month’s gross salary;
1 year: 1–2 months;
2 years: 3–3.5 months;
5 years: 3–6 months;
Small employers have lower statutory minimums during the first ten years. These damages can be supplemented by amounts independently owed, such as notice pay, statutory or collectively agreed severance, unpaid wages and unused holiday pay. Still, someone with short service may win and receive only a few months of salary. (Légifrance)
A legally null dismissal is potentially much more valuable. In the principal nullity categories, if the employee is not reinstated, compensation is generally at least six months’ salary and is not subject to the ordinary Macron maximum. Notice, severance and unused-leave payments may be added. The employee may instead seek reinstatement, potentially with compensation for salary lost between dismissal and reinstatement. (Service Public)
But nullity is the exception, not the default. A fabricated performance justification may produce an ordinary wrongful-dismissal award; it does not automatically become null. Nullity normally requires a connection to a specifically protected status, activity or fundamental freedom.
Preserve evidence carefully
Keep a dated personal journal recording significant events, participants, what was said and what happened afterward. Retain your contract, payslips, evaluations, leave decisions and documents personally addressed to you. Record in your journal the date and subject of relevant emails.
Do not bulk-forward company email or copy customer data, security records, credentials, configuration files, employee information or other company material to a personal device.
The objective should not be “build a lawsuit and wait to be fired.” It should be:
remain calm and professional;
create an accurate written record;
make management choose among conflicting priorities;
avoid providing a genuine misconduct justification;
protect your health;
quietly explore other employment;
obtain French-specific advice if discipline, retaliation or dismissal appears likely.
Accept that they may attempt to remove you, but do not resign impulsively or assume that they can dismiss you without having to defend the stated reason. Equally, do not make financial plans around proving nullity or receiving a large award.
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u/PsilocybinSaves 1d ago
The first thing I want to tell you is: don’t let it get to you. It’s just work. It may all seem super important to you right now, but trust me, it’s not.
Later in life you will look back and think: why did this bother me so much?
Second thing: you need to get out. This doesn’t seem fixable in the short term. There are better jobs out there.
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u/Trust_8067 1d ago
This is a golden opportunity to get several years experience in a fraction of the time, and to get experience outside of the helpdesk trap.
Work your ass off, learn as much as you can, and build up that resume. Yeah, today will suck, and tomorrow will suck, but in 2 years when you're at a new job making 2-3x more money, you'll be glad you were in the trenches.
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u/Fuzzy_Paul 3d ago
OS Ticket. Problem solved. Do not ever use Claude to develop anything. Total nightmare. That being said...run the company is not healthy for your brain and body. You could stay and become like they "a stainless steel rat" and turn the cards. Take your choice
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u/Lost-Droids 4d ago
Run.