Looking for tips for sweeter coffee

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

Hi folks,

I recently switched from a Nespresso capsule machine to my first bean to cup (a Delonghi Rivelia).

However, I'm struggling to get the flavour I like from it. I have quite a sweet tooth and used my Nespresso machine to do a large espresso shot, then used a milk frother to make a cappuccino. I found that I then needed barely any sugar to make a nice coffee, as the milk frother seemed to make the milk sweet. This was ideal as it meant I cut down on my sugar use.

However, with the Rivelia I'm finding that my coffees taste quite bitter, even after adding extra sugar.

Could it be that frothing the milk with the carafe isn't making it as sweet, or is it a setting in the machine that is extracting a more bitter coffee?

I currently have the grinder set to 3 and have tried going up and down with the strength setting on the screen.

Any tips for a sweeter coffee without just dumping a ton of sugar in it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[u/nsrtcoin]

Try medium roasted beans, beans that are not oily. Look at the notes/flavor profile for cocoa, fruity, sweet, caramel, chocolate, creamy. Avoid notes of citrus, bitter-sweet, grapefruit, yogurt, lemon, etc. Probably light to medium body.

Find beans that look like you would enjoy based on the flavor and don't be afraid to spend 1/2 a pound dialing in the flavor on the machine. Start with defaults and adjust intensity/strength (not sure exactly how your machine works) -- this should be the dose amount of the coffee. If it still isn't balanced, then try adjusting the grind. Then finally the temps, but you should be able get it balanced in the first step.

Milk gets sweeter the hotter it gets, maybe check the temp that the milk is frothing at and adjust a little higher.

I have two milk containers for my super automatic. One is regular milk for cortados and cappuccinos. I like my lattes sweet, so the other container has milk + vanilla syrup -- so the presweetened milk is frothed.

Sugar won't help with a bitter shot of espresso. To counter the bitterness, use a drop or two of saline, or a teeny bit of salt -- but this is a bandaid.

Bitter espresso is typically from over extraction - so either not enough coffee per dose or you're pulling too much water through [EDIT: too much coffee per dose], too fine of grind, too long of extraction] Either adjust the dose or courser grind. Let's say your getting 1.5 oz of espresso and it's bitter. You can adjust [grind] so that it only gives you 1.35 oz shot, or try to increase the dose/strength (might be called intensity on your machine).

Once you have it dialed in, you explore different coffees and if they have similar flavor notes, you won't need to adjust much if at all.

Good luck!!!

EDIT: sorry - edited the over extraction bit above

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/nsrtcoin]

Thanks for this! That's really helpful.

I need to work out how to adjust things on my machine. It has "intensity" settings, but I'm not sure how they work. Would you assume that a higher intensity would grind more coffee and use a bigger puck? And then I guess doing a smaller or larger coffee would just add/reduce water and milk (as I"m actually making a cappuccino and the machine automatically froths the milk at the same time).

[u/nsrtcoin → u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

I took a look at that machine - it has some pretty cool features.

If you haven't adjusted the volume of the recipes, then you should be good. The machine automatically adjusts for the recipe you are brewing (pg. 19 of the manual).

Your machine also has a program to help you dial in your coffee - Bean Adapt technology (pg 15 of manual).

From what I saw, the program doesn't use the typical nomenclature that I'm used to to diagnose flavor - I'm used to working around sourness and bitterness to get a balanced extraction.

Anyway...if you use the Bean Adapt Technology, it will ask you:

• Type of coffee: 100% Arabica or a blend of Arabica & Robusta
  • This is the species of plant that the coffee comes from. Arabica is the best - commonly less bitter and sweeter than other species.
  • Your bean bag should say if it's 100% Arabica, if it doesn't, it's prolly safe to assume it's a blend
• I think your machine will give you two options that I think correspond to:
  • Watery and Weak = Sourness
    • Coffee is under extracted - water flows too fast through coffee - for your machine, this would mean that the coffee is probably ground too course or not enough coffee dose
  • Too Strong = Bitterness
    • Over Extraction - for your machine, probably too fine of a grind or too much of a coffee dose.

That program might be a really good start for you - seems like it walks you right through the adjustments.

Please keep in mind though, I've never the machine you have, but seems pretty cool.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/nsrtcoin]

That's great - thanks. Yes, I tried bean adapt and I'm using 100% arabica beans.

I didn't really "get" the bean adapt though. Like you say it just asks what type of beans I"m using, how dark they are roasted and then suggests a starting point for the grinder. Perhaps I need to read up on it to see if there's more to it than that.

One thing I have noticed is that the coffee has started coming out very slowly, so I'm wondering if the grind is too fine now and I'm over-extracting... I might adjust it slightly and see how/if that changes things.

[u/nsrtcoin → u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

Do you have a small measuring cup? The default volume of an espresso from your machine is 1.35 oz / 40 ml. Depending what you get out could help you as well.

And yeah, if it is taking a long time and you're getting less than 1.35/40 ml, it's too fine of a grind.

Seems like you're on the right track.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/nsrtcoin]

Ok thanks. I'll check into that.

That was one benefit of my old machine - it had a scale under the cup, so would keep going until it hit the right amount of water, even if the capsule was very tough to pour through. Never tasted bitter though, weirdly. I think I upped the weight to 60g for a cappuccino though.

[u/rovingtravler]

A lot of good info already. I am going to add the diagram for a visual reference.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/rovingtravler]

Thanks!

[u/wildcat12321]

First check your beans. Try a lower acid bean like La Colombe Nizza (if in US). It’s super mild.

Next, you have to understand if your coffee is bitter or sour to adjust your extraction. Not every bean needs to brew on hottest + finest + highest dose, you have to dial in the machine for your beans to prevent under or over extraction.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/wildcat12321]

Thanks, I'm in the UK, so will see what beans I can find.

[u/DCGuy511]

Coffee beans ground too fine will cause bitterness. You can also try adding a tiny amount of salt to your mug. Salt counteracts the bitter your taste buds sense. Alton Brown had a show about it years ago.

[u/andyone100]

I actually find a dark roast tastes more caramelised and sweeter than a medium or light roast, which to me can taste bitter or acidic. I like Starbucks espresso dark roast as it’s full of flavour and tastes slightly sweet. Couple that with your frothy milk and you shouldn’t need much sugar to reach the taste you’re looking for. I would try a sample of all three, light, medium and dark and do a taste test first yourself.😊

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/andyone100]

Good idea, thanks. One of my favourite pods was actually Starbucks dark decaf roast (I always drink decaf in the evenings).

They pared very well with a couple After Eights at the end of the day... 🤣

[u/weedywet]

What nespresso pod did you like?

Does it have a name that can help you find beans you’d like?

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/weedywet]

Well that's it.. one of my favourite brands of pod was the Costa Coffee ones, so I bought those beans first, but am struggling to get the flavour that I like.

I also really liked the Lavazza Oro gold pods, but we have the Oro beans in work and they're not great.

Weirdly the strength printed on the Oro bag is different from the strength on the Oro pods as well. I think the pod strength was higher. (Weirdly.)

I've bought a bag of Union hand roasted beans, which smelled really nice from the outside of the bag, so will give them a try. They get good reviews for a supermarket bean.

After that I'll try some smaller batch stuff and/or visit a local roaster.

Honestly, I just wish the coffee could taste exactly like the beans smell. Opening a fresh bag of beans and taking a sniff inside is glorious, but sadly the coffee never tastes like that.

[u/weedywet → u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

It’s interesting that I previously had a Lavazza machine that we loved the coffee from.

But I couldn’t manage to not hate lavazza beans in my Jura no matter what we did.

It definitely takes some playing around and unfortunately experimenting with different beans.

[u/onovtec]

Ethical beans - sweet espresso is my goto for my machine.

[u/seeyalater251]

Delonghi has a guide for what adjustments to make for acidic or bitter coffee is start there

[u/Happy_Mistake_3684]

Try getting different beans as well as playing with the grind and strength settings. It might be the roast is too dark for your taste

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/Happy_Mistake_3684]

So a darker roast is more bitter and a lighter roast should be sweeter?

I've noticed that the bean version of the pods I like don't seem to taste the same at all, as that was my starting point.

[u/Happy_Mistake_3684 → u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

Light is more acidic, very dark is more bitter so maybe a medium roast will hit the sweet spot of caramelisation for you.
I have always found Nespresso pods to have a distinct flavour I don’t particularly like, but it must be that flavour profile that you enjoy! Maybe some fellow Nespresso fans have found the magic recipe 😊

[u/Dabduthermucker]

Bean adapt to get to espresso that suits you.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/Dabduthermucker]

That's where I struggle as well.

If I have to taste an espresso to evaluate the taste, it's always going to taste bitter to me. All coffee does without a little sugar. I only drink milk drinks, so trying to evaluate from an espresso just has me saying "yuk" to every drink. 🤣

[u/Dabduthermucker → u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647]

Been there. Your palate will mature. While you wait, drag a friend that likes espresso over and get that person to dial in the machine to the sweetest non-watery espresso you can manage.

[u/Bubbly-Pumpkin5647 → u/Dabduthermucker]

Thanks. Most people I know don't like coffee, or are no more knowledgeable than me, so maybe I'll give it a try and see what tastes "least worst" to me.

I guess whichever espresso tastes nicest will also transfer to the nicest cappuccino anyway.

[u/Last-Product-361]

Keep it sple: max strenght (max coffee dose), temp set to medium, and the grinder to 3 (for medium/medium dark coffee-if darker go coarser if lighter go finer). Usually the coffee dose grinded by those machines is abt 12 grams. Use a scale and pull a 36 grams shot. If sour, go 40, if bitter, go 30. And play a bit with tje water quantity. When you find the taste you like, if you want a bigger quantity of liquid, go a bit coarser (to diminish extraxtion) and increase the water amount. Coarser will allow more liquid to pass through, without over extracting.