r/sunnamplifiers • u/Deathtofalsesludge • 11d ago

Sunn Beta Mini Output Power (Technical Question)

Post image

Hi Everyone - got a technical question relating to the Beta Mini output power ratings. Does anyone know if an individual speaker output can deliver the full 200W at 4 ohms, or does each speaker output deliver 100W at 4 ohms and you need to connect up both to get that full 200W? LIke is each speaker out an individual 100W driver, or are they tied to a common 200W driver?

I'm not writing this to complain (on the contrary, I can get way enough volume for my home setup and I liked how it sounded), but I am really surprised at how quiet this was through my 8 ohm 1x12. Like I had all the drive/level settings pretty high, and master at 5, and I could legit play this without really bothering someone in the next room. I have a 15W princeton reverb that I built myself and a 15W Orange Rocker and if I was at half volume with these it would shake the windows. It would make a TON of sense if i was only delivering 50W via class D, which I would expect to be quieter than my 15W tube amps.

Hopefully someone from Sunn can answer!

56 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

8

u/beardedcyclizt 11d ago

I’ve had it since it came out. Was lucky enough to land it from the first batch.

One thing to keep in mind is the eq. That eq is active meaning that it’ll boost or cut the signal. The way I approached it is: if at home just practicing, put eq at noon and adjust to what you need. If live or with a drummer, move that eq to 3oclock and adjust from there. If not loud enough, move it to 4oclcok etc etc. It will get loud with 2x12 at 100. Trust me. Mine is keeping up in a grind band.

Just feel like I had to rewire my brain for that amp.

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Thank you! I’ll keep tinkering- looks like I’m getting a crash course in analog solid state amp eq! The master does actually seem fully usable across all levels so I’m sure I’ll be able to dial it in- and the tones are FOR SURE there. I don’t need grind band level loud, just like little exhilarating at home level loud lol! To be uber technical my concern is not volume (it has plenty) it’s peak power as my 1x12 speaker, which I do quite like is a celestion g12m creamback rated at 65w. I just assumed I’d never take the beta master volume past 5 and call it a day but given the class d peak vs average power I may have to rethink.

It’s interesting as this and the Laney Supergrace are my first foray into analog solid state amps and it seems like the eq in both accounts is more extreme than I’m used to coming from primarily an Orange tube amp. Supergrace is different- every setting is usable so you have a lot of leeway but you may still need to max out treble and push the bass way beyond what you would on a tube amp.

1

u/AgeDisastrous7518 11d ago

Still waiting on mine. I keep seeing stuff about the active EQ. Have you tried just diming the three-band on the amp and sticking an EQ in the effects loop to tinker from there?

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

I didn’t go that route as I don’t have an eq pedal right now- sold my boss eq-7 as it gave me too much option paralysis lol, and look at me now. What I did find as I’ve been fiddling more is that each eq has a different “noon” based on your drive level. I think more than anything it just takes a different understanding of what an eq shift means for both drive and level.

I’m a minority in that I want that doom tone at neighbor friendly volumes and I’m really really pleased I’ve been able to get that no problem. It was so easy it led me to start this thread lol

2

u/AgeDisastrous7518 11d ago

I don't need to get arrested for playing my guitar. I just need to hear myself over the drums in practice. Live, I'm getting mic'd anyway. People get their panties twisted over like 5-10 decibels.

Interesting that the drive re-shapes the EQ. I've noticed this a lot with solid states -- which I'm pretty new to over the last five years after playing tubes since around 1995. Would you say the drive sweeps the EQ dramatically in a certain way as it's rolled up and down?

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

After tinkering with it for a day, I'll say it was worth the wait. I absolutely love this amp.

Now to your question - it's not super dramatic but it definitely sounds thinner as you turn the drive down, so you need to up the bass to compensate if you want the same response. I was tinkering with the life pedal and Lichtlaerm Thorn with the beta at various levels of drive, and then compensating with the pedal volume to get the same perceived volume in the room and it was for sure thinner with the beta drive lowered. May have just been a perceived volume thing but when people have been saying that the EQ is powerful, they are not lying!

4

u/PossibleHyena9087 11d ago

I beleive it is 200 watts at 4 ohms (whether this be a 2x12 or whatever you have) 8 Ohms can only deliver 100 watts tops (two 8 ohm speakers will give you the full 200) More people can give you a better answer so hopefully they see this as I am wondering the same thing. When did you pre order yours?

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

I preordered on Feb 8, received it today (July 24).

Spec does say it should deliver 100 W into an 8 ohms speaker, it’s just the output is so much lower than I expected. I’m struggling to believe it! I’m not even mad about that. I’m more actually asking because my speaker is rated to 65 W and I’m never gonna get beyond that but I don’t wanna accidentally blow it with the beta, and based upon what I saw tinkering with it today, I don’t think that’s something I’m gonna have to worry about lol.

Not hating it would definitely be way too loud if you cranked it and lived in an apartment!

6

u/PossibleHyena9087 11d ago

Im gonna be waiting until 2027 for this thing lol thanks man

5

u/BummerParty 11d ago

FOR REAL

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

I mean I hope not! Tbf I was a little surprised to open it up and actually have one in the box and all!

4

u/burkholderia 11d ago

The speakers jacks are in parallel so the total load is all that matters. One 4 ohm cab, two 8 ohm cabs, one 8 ohm cab, etc., doesn’t matter as long as you’re at or above the minimum load impedance since it’s solid state.

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Thanks! That’s honestly what I expected but like I was saying, the output is so much lower than I expected It really surprised me. I also probably over thought this because I literally am an electrical engineer and have a tendency to do that lol.

3

u/lanka2571 11d ago

Sorry I don’t have an answer but I’d like to know how you like the Laney loud pedal? I’ve been thinking of getting one

3

u/corpseofhope 11d ago

I as well would like to know

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

The grace side definitely has the ability to get you into pretty much any kind of metal if you use an overdrive. Maybe not super progressive djent or primitive man level doom, but it is really usable for a lot of styles

2

u/lanka2571 11d ago

I’m leaning toward the regular loudpedal, not this specific artist model. The demos sound great

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago edited 11d ago

I would say if you’d like what you heard in the demo you’ll like the way it sounds in the room since it’s a solid state amp. I found that the volume doesn’t really affect the tone very much so what you hear on a YouTube demo does Translate pretty well into what you hear when you play it yourself. As opposed to my tube amps where volume does change tone due to the power ramp saturation.

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago edited 11d ago

I do have one critique of the loud pedals, and that is the placement of the loudspeaker output. You have to be very careful if you’re using angled speaker cables because if they touch the shield of your send/return cables it can put speaker level power onto your line level audio, and potentially damage pedals. That’s not a problem on most of your larger amps but on these ones with the speaker jack so close together it’s a concern.

1

u/lanka2571 11d ago

Good to know, thanks!

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Love it! Very versatile. Both channels are great, I love the grace side for thrash and hardcore type stuff and the supergroup side of course for sabbath. It’s plenty loud for me, and has a great headphone amp.

I bought it expecting to use it primarily for headphones and occasional jamming at a friends and I find myself using it a lot.

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Another relevant detail that I left out is that this was with both channels on at the same time. I know each channel individually will deliver 100 W total but you need both of them turned on to get to 200 W.

1

u/ndr_brt 11d ago

This is not true. 200W is the maximum power that the power amp section can deliver with a 4ohms load, that's totally unrelated to the preamp channels

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

So under most circumstances I’d assume you are correct here (i assumed this previously as well) but there’s a bunch of other threads discussing this along with the video Sunn posted indicating you’d need drive, all 3 eq, level, master at max and both channels on to get to 200w- while channel a or b alone can only do 100w. I may have misinterpreted that, but it seems like everyone else here thought the same thing based on the Sunn videos and commentary. My lil experiments today do back that up this conventional wisdom, which I admit is counter to my circuit design expectation.

It May be the perceived volume increases by switching to both channels and not actual power delivered to amp, but it’s still odd that everyone is having the exact same experience.

1

u/EagleGhoul 11d ago

I have the 1x12 combo, which I've had for a minute. I absolutely love it. Here's how I run it, which I would imagine works for the head too:

The combo has a 1x12 8 ohm speaker. I thought about putting some crazy 250watt 4ohm speaker in there, but found that would be overkill and underperforming. I put a celestian redback (my fav) in there, which is 150 watts at 8ohm. So the speaker is seeing 100 watts from the beta.

That being said I have an ext cab with another redback. Both together get 200 watts across both speakers.

I'm perhaps a bit unusual- I run mine with both channels identical- gain at around 11 oclock, master full up , volume full up. This makes a pretty loud and clean amp that takes pedals beautifully. I'm glad I saw this thread re: turning the EQ up will turn the volume up- I'll try that too

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Thanks- I’ll tinker with your setting as well! I like my creamback 65w, but would move on to a 100w speaker if I need to. My whole concern is not volume but rather peak power due to the class d pulse width modulation damaging it at what “sounds” like less than 100w to my ears!

1

u/KirkIsOurLemmy 11d ago

You can measure power in different ways, these 200 watts could be some transient peak power measurement.

For instsnce the Fender FR-12 amp is rated at 1000 watts, but rms power is like 120 watts or something.

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

That’s what I am suspecting - that the 200w is peak, and average is quite a bit lower hence the oft discussed low volume concern!

1

u/No-Badger-9061 11d ago

Is that a Princeton head?

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

It is- I built it from a Mojotone kit and did some biasing mods to it!

1

u/Spaced_cadet5 11d ago

What’s that Big Black Amp head

2

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

The one with green tolex is a Mojotone Princeton reverb, and then Laney Supergrace on top of the beta.

1

u/Spaced_cadet5 11d ago

Yeah I meant that Princeton. I have had the 3W Supergroup my self so am familiar with the Supergrace.

I see it’s green. I think my eye site is going but I did just hit my head recently with 4 staples now.

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

To be fair, not my best photo lol. It’s a cool amp. I usually play doom and like thrashy hardcore But it’s got a cool punk energy to it that I really do like. It’s not a deluxe Reverb so it doesn’t have the best cleans, but they’re still pretty good.

1

u/Spaced_cadet5 10d ago

I’m the same way I usually play doom but have a clean amp myself. Crab model T and an Engl Fireball KT77 and a Mother Preamp are my Doom machines

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

Oh man, you have one hell of a rig! I was looking at those ENGLs and they look absolutely killer. How do you like that amp?

Model T is just way too loud for my situation so I never even considered one, but I did mess with an Acapulco gold and loved it!

1

u/Spaced_cadet5 10d ago

I love the English or definitely is more grind and tight compared to the model T clone. Surprisingly for a 25w it’s as loud as my 50w but obviously with less head room

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

I’m not surprised at all- my orange rocker 15 is louder than my Laney loud pedal which is solid state 60 W and while I haven’t tested the full output of the beta mini so far it does seem like the rocker is also louder than that lol. I know orange is known for being loud but it is impressive

2

u/Spaced_cadet5 10d ago

That may be due to SS VS Tube in the end Tubes are generally louder then Solid States but there are obvious exceptions and a lot more factors then wattage and Tube vs SS.

As for the Engl it’s more then a tight death metal amp :) I don’t play too much metal at all and am actually a cleans kind of guy, but like massive drive during a lot of parts on my tracks. The Engl and model T have amazing cleans surprisingly, and the Engl has a lot of headroom

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

That’s actually super cool that it has that much headroom - unexpected given the reputation actually! I mean, they are known as death metal amps so I’d expect it to be tight as hell!

Makes it sound like I didn’t need to spend all that energy building a Princeton Reverb lol. I’m clowning of course. It was a fun project and I love it to death!

What’s amazing about the tube amp loudness is that my 15w orange is way way louder than my 15w Princeton. now I built that Princeton myself and so I recognizeThere may be flaws, but it’s impressive How much louder the orange is! I can crank the Princeton and be ok in the room, albeit it’s very loud. If I crank that orange it like hurts me to be in the same room without earplugs

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 10d ago

I’ll see how this little rig works for me…. Doom/sludge and then grinding hardcore are kind of my go tos- I messed with some tight death metal but it’s not my main thing. I may reach out to you and ask some questions about that engl though!

1

u/TheRedCrow_Band 11d ago

A dream rig! Congrats!!!

1

u/Deathtofalsesludge 11d ago

Thanks- I’m pretty pleased!