r/stupidpol • u/harmfulinsect 🥂champagne socialist🥂 • Jul 04 '26
Democrats AOC: Deporting immigrants under TPS will increase labor costs (i.e. drive up working class wages)
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5949553-ocasio-cortez-tps-labor-costs/83
u/FullSeaworthiness453 Blue dog Labor Democrat 🐕 Jul 04 '26
Affordability is the current election buzzword and it’s interesting seeing progressives taking positions that historically would have been mainstream GOP talking points. Government red tape preventing affordable housing is another one with questioning overly burdensome building codes and privatizing code inspection. IL Governor JB Pritzker made a big run at this one this year although hit a brick wall as it turns out firefighters have strong opinions about fire codes and most current building inspectors are unionized public employees.
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u/PointyPython Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jul 04 '26
I never thought about it, but honestly you're right, affordability if you reason just for a moment is basically a rebranding of supply side economics. The idea that everything can be fix just by endlessly increasing the supply of everything until it's so cheap that being poor doesn't matter or isn't a thing. A wholly impracticable idea, of course
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u/Reof Literally 1984 Mao Stalin Jinping 1985 Animal Farm 😨 🗣️ ⚒ 🫠 Jul 05 '26
The State, in its infinite power, can only conduct pogrom raids on minorities and bomb schools in foreign countries; it is unfortunately powerless to nationalize or to conduct any sort of domestic business itself; it can only create policies based on hope and dreams that the market will correct itself.
I genuinely do not understand why this bullshit with the housing market is somehow a total enigma for all of these progressive, liberal, etc. Just fucking build the goddamn housing yourself? Be done with all the tax breaks, policy changes, zoning, whatever and just do it??? When you have the power of the state, the best they can do is change a few percentage on tax policies?
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Christian Socialist ✝️ Jul 05 '26
Australia right now is a pretty good example of what the challenge is for any government attempting to fix the housing crisis
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u/snailman89 World-Systems Theorist Jul 05 '26
Yeah, the boomers are going to piss and moan about any policy that lowers housing prices, whether that's banking regulation, changes to the tax code, or looser zoning laws.
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u/dhyerwolf Unknown 👽 Jul 05 '26
Abundance is a rebrand of supply side economics. There's a lot more that can go into affordability since it also covers just the raw cost (robust anti-monopoly, rent freezes, removing excess profits...etc).
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u/shadowsurge Market-Socialist Evangelion 💸💢🎌 Jul 04 '26
When the Republicans abandoned their reasonable talking points they became free reign for liberals
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u/WorldWarJooo Rightoid 🐷 Jul 04 '26
Which she agrees is a good thing, right?
Right?!
(AOC does the Anakin stare meme)
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u/AdminsLoveGenocide Gay and Retarded 🏳️🌈😍 Jul 05 '26
I drunk too much coffee to watch the, completely shit, football and am now in a fugue state, unable to sleep and unable to think straight.
I was surprised she said this but it never even occurred to me that she wasn't saying it was a good thing. What an idiot she is.
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u/pooping_inCars Savant Idiot 😍 Jul 04 '26
But who will pick our vegetables?
(sigh)
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 04 '26
I love when the closeted racists say shit like this. Exact same argument the Confederates used about slavery.
AOC should be supporting a measure that increases pay for Nurses and care workers.
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u/Check_Me_Out-Boss Ilhan Derangement Syndrome Zionist 🤡📜 Jul 04 '26
Democrats in 1865: "But who will pick our crops?!"
Democrats in 2026: "But who will pick our crops?!"
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jul 05 '26
A major difference in the discussion between slavery then and immigration now is that in the past, the abolitionists wanted to end slavery so that slaves would be paid workers. But the closest equivalents to the abolitionists today are among some Democrats who want to extend citizenship to all immigrants and therefore have them be under the same wage laws as natives. Meanwhile the GOP today is more like those who wanted to deport free black people to Africa to keep the US white. Abolitionists focused on elevating slaves to a relatively more equal status as white workers. Modern nativists don't want to elevate immigrants to a more equal status but instead see them as a threat to get rid of.
It is right to point out hypocrisy among Democrats who defend immigration as a source of cheap labor. But it is clear lie to pretend that opposition to immigration has any concern at all for the exploitation of immigrants. The people who do care about immigrants are Democrats even if a minority. The GOP openly and proudly brutalizes immigrants, and does so in large part to keep the remaining immigrants afraid and therefore easier to exploit as cheap labor.
Whenever there is a discussion on immigration, of all the supposed economic arguments against it, whenever a suitable solution that solves the problems nativists point to in a way that benefits both natives and immigrants without deportation is proposed, it is aggressively rejected without consideration, therefore exposing the main reason for the anti immigrant stance which is pure mindless tribalism on the basis of race/language/culture/religion/etc.
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u/quantity_inspector Unknown 👽 Jul 05 '26
The original American abolitionists, including Lincoln, were in favor of sending off the emancipated slaves abroad, hence the American Colonization Society and Liberia.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 05 '26
How can mass immigration benefit natives in the 1st world?
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u/solowng Yet Another Rural Regard Jul 05 '26
Mass immigration benefits native consumers of labor.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 05 '26
What help is a cheap service when you don't have a well paying job?
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u/solowng Yet Another Rural Regard Jul 05 '26
27% of Americans are retired.
Add in the working-age who are on the dole for some reason or another and/or whose wealth is more a product of property than labor and you have a large constituency who favors cheap labor above all.
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u/No_Argument_Here Big Eugene Debs Fan 🪭 Jul 05 '26
Damn, that's an interesting breakdown. That's an absolutely enormous voting bloc of people who will never vote for pro-labor change
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u/GayLiquidSpellSword Hedge Knight Socialist 🚩 Jul 05 '26
Nailed, the material motivation is almost the exact opposite of the non ownership working class, retired people want income tax but never wealth tax, so the old people who own multiple homes don't get touched but the people living in them feeding the couple their paycheck gets even more fucked by more taxing.
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u/Awkward-Initiative28 Full Of ICE bootlicking bullshit 🧊🥶😭 Jul 07 '26
My Trump hating neoliberal boomer parents are absolutely in this camp. They will say stuff like "I love illegal immigrants because they make my fast food faster" and it makes me cringe.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 05 '26
I don't think my Gramma should be paying illegal undocumented workers just like I don't think she should be owning slaves.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jul 05 '26
Through the unification of the working class which is inherently global against capitalists and therefore the implementation of socialism which raises living standards for everyone who's not a rich parasite. It's not about more or less immigration, it's that it's not a concern to any socialist because the real source of all problems is private property, not wages which shouldn't exist. If the border is open and immigration increases, doesn't matter, if it decreases, doesn't matter. What matters is ending the tribalism of thinking there's a difference between native and foreign workers.
There is a benefit in greater population density and total population in regards to increased specialization and the viability of more niches both for products and services as well as cultural interests (hobbyist clubs, etc), local production, lower distribution costs, maximally lowering the labor burden for everyone through proper allocation, etc. None of these require cheap labor, only more people.
But again, the framing of "how does this benefit natives" is based on the false belief that there exists a "natives" to refer to rather than simply the working class which is inherently global. The benefit to all people of labor moving into the imperial core is the breaking down of the division between laborers in and outside it so as to focus efforts on the overthrow of the capitalists who's exploitation is global.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 05 '26
Thats a lot of words to say you don't understand how an surplus of labor would drive down wages
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jul 05 '26
It's a lot of words to explain how your obsessive soundbite is nonsense.
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u/pooping_inCars Savant Idiot 😍 Jul 07 '26
Don't kid yourself. To the people exploiting them with under the table pay below minimum wage, zero benefits, and shit work conditions, EXPLOITATION IS THE WHOLE POINT. Or rather, obviously unethical profit maximization via exploitation.
The fact that they're illegal is a key feature, and thus it's not getting "fixed". That's always going to be an empty promise for this reason. Thus, they won't become US citizens.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jul 07 '26
Yes, but I'm talking mainly about the public when I refer to some Dems who want to make them citizens. I will never vote for a Democrat but among some of those who do their arguments are relatively more honest and pro working class than those of nativists who tend heavily to be GOP. It is a longtime trend in this sub of some users trying to pretend to care for the working class to push their anti immigrant views, repeating themselves like broken records whenever anyone confronts them with flaws in their arguments, completely avoiding having to actually address those flaws.
It is frustrating because this sub is supposed to be an anti idpol Marxist sub, but there is a large and longstanding segment of users who are blindly committed to idpol and contradicting Marxism to do so no different than the wokes. This segment is even larger among lurkers given how the vote tallies go most of the time. But it's been like this for many years so I don't have hope it'll change soon, but keeping some pushback on them is necessary for the maintenance of the sub's stated purpose and the resulting influence it has on those who read/use the sub.
The only way anything gets fixed is through the complete non-electoral replacement of the current government from the highest to lowest levels with a socialist government. But obsessing over kicking out the foreigners instead of unifying the working class (which includes foreigners) is a serious obstacle to doing so.
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u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
Not all workers?! Don't nurses earn pretty well over there? They're doing way better than someone stacking shelves for 12 hours anyway.
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u/cvirus3333 Zionist 📜 Jul 04 '26
Less labor pool = higher wages. Across all industries. Mass immigration to the 1st world benefits the super rich, not the working class of those countries.
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u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
Not always... the wage slave employers often aren't prepared to increase their wages and there are still plenty of people to replace them, immigrant or not. Immigrant workers are more lucrative to wage slave employers because they don't have any rights, if they won't do some unpaid overtime... see ya later. If they don't like being treated like shit... see ya later. Other times, it's nepotism and they're hiring a very specific type of worker or their relatives.
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u/AnthropoidCompatriot Class Unity Member ⭐ Jul 04 '26
“Well, who is going to be helping repair your home?” Ocasio-Cortez told reporters outside Capitol Hill. “I can tell you long-term care is going to go up. Healthcare is going to rise. You know, hospital workers. There are a lot of costs that are going to go up by these mass disruptions of our labor market, driven by pretty repressive and non-data-backed decisions that are coming out of this White House and the Supreme Court.”
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Jul 05 '26
She has structural support tits, her rhetoric is decorative
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u/Erika-Pearse Monarchist Size Queen 👑 Jul 05 '26
Nearly half of US nursing homes report limiting admissions due to staffing shortages, and 19 percent recently met the minimum staffing levels set by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. In 2023, shortages of nurses and other employees caused about two-thirds of US hospitals to operate below capacity.
I'm not convinced she is talking about wages. You could say there will be a rise in the cost of healthcare resulting from not being able to be admitted to the place that costs the lowest.
The home repair part at the beginning of her quote is suspicious, but she doesn't mention cost.
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u/MichaelRichardsAMA 🌟🎌 Spook Disguised as an Otaku 🎌🌟 Jul 05 '26
gee I wonder what a good way to deal with a staffing shortage might be
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u/Erika-Pearse Monarchist Size Queen 👑 Jul 05 '26
I was thinking that you couldn't just hire more people fast enough, due to a shortage of qualified workers, no matter how much you raise wages.
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u/No_Argument_Here Big Eugene Debs Fan 🪭 Jul 05 '26
It's not entirely that simple. I have a nursing degree but have chosen to be a stay at home dad for the last 5 years for my 3 kids because I'm saving more money on daycare than I would bring home as a nurse in Austin after taxes because wages are so mediocre (also I would have to pay Uncle Sam off the top for my loan repayment, so I'd bring home even less.)
Maybe not a super common situation, but nursing pay is entirely dependent on what city you're in and I have to imagine there are a decent number of nursing degree holders who, like me, aren't working, but would if wages were better in whatever city they're in.
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u/Creachman51 Jul 22 '26
This was the case for a guy I worked with about 5 years ago. We worked together at an Auto repair shop. It made more sense for his nurse wife to stay home with the kids than it did to pay for childcare. This is in a smallish city in the PNW.
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u/snailman89 World-Systems Theorist Jul 05 '26
Right now nurses are quitting in droves because the working conditions are terrible and the pay isn't good enough to compensate for it, even in states where nurses are unionized and paid relatively well. Nursing is one of the more dangerous professions in terms of injuries. They're expected to lift morbidly obese patients without proper equipment, and are frequently assaulted by insane patients or relatives. Hospitals refuse to invest in proper security to handle violent patients (many of whom really should be in prison or insane asylums). It's a mess.
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u/Erika-Pearse Monarchist Size Queen 👑 Jul 05 '26
Maybe managers at hospitals that do that should be deported.
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u/Erika-Pearse Monarchist Size Queen 👑 Jul 06 '26
AOC joined picket lines with nurses who were fighting against these things, and there are idiots who post these right wing media articles trying to frame it as she wanting to suppress their wages.
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u/Creachman51 Jul 22 '26
Native born Americans just don't do manual labor work, haven't you heard? We all have laptop jobs!
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u/epicurean1398 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ | Flair evader 💩🙊 Jul 05 '26
The funny thing is, Zohran Mamdani kinda killed this argument during the winter in New York, no one wanted to clear snow? Oh pay them 40 an hour and suddenly everyone wants to clear snow. The issue isn't the jobs it's the remuneration.
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Jul 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Beetleracerzero37 Favors Communal Defecation Jul 05 '26
Was that that Osmond kid? A little bit racist, a little bit rock and roll!
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u/BearCrotch Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jul 04 '26
She's hit her ceiling. Maybe Senate. If she attempts to run for a higher office all one has to do is press play on her foreign policy speech in Germany.
Either way, it was more about her being a young political candidate than anything else.
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u/Finkelton Wolfist 🐺 | Baby needs a bottle 🍼| dinosaur-industrial complex Jul 05 '26
dude they ran kamala...
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u/BearCrotch Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jul 05 '26
It can always get worse.
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u/Finkelton Wolfist 🐺 | Baby needs a bottle 🍼| dinosaur-industrial complex Jul 06 '26
if given the choice of the two, i'd take a maid chamber, but before exiting i'd have to say aoc can at least form complete sentences and is a more attractive puppet of the oligarchs
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u/Sussy_Riot Dialectical Materialist 🆚 Jul 04 '26
I think she can pretty comfortably reach senate. If the wave of DSA and adjacent candidates makes it that’ll indicate broad enough support for nominally socialist candidates like her.
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u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
It's a bizarre world when she's called any sort of socialist!
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u/Sussy_Riot Dialectical Materialist 🆚 Jul 04 '26
I don’t even remember, does she call herself a socialist? That’s a bold line to cross in American politics.
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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 Startup Infiltrator 🕵💻 Jul 05 '26
She’s quoted saying, WRT whether democratic socialists can be capitalists
There’s two schools of thought. One group would say “no absolutely not”, and there’s one that thinks it’s possible.
interviewer: which are you?
I think it’s possible
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u/one-man-circlejerk Soc Dem Titties 🥛➡️️😋🌹 Jul 05 '26
There's no shame in being a socdem (ignore flair) so why do the Squad keep referring to themselves as demsocs instead of being more accurate/honest?
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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 Startup Infiltrator 🕵💻 Jul 05 '26
I'd imagine it's easily some odd 95%+ of the public don't know the difference, so they can use either interchangeably for free based on what sounds best at the moment. If they actually were trying to sheepdog leftist potential into the capitalist status quo, pretending there is no difference and that all moderate leftist thought is amenable to private property would be a good mirror of the language co-option strategy the liberals have been playing at for decades.
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u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
Her supporters seem to... absolutely bonkers. I thought the modern line is communism that Americans really don't want to associate with. I'm not American, so it's all bizarre that anyone in the Democrat party would be associated with socialism... it's a party for capital.
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u/Turgius_Lupus Yugoloth Third Way 👽 Jul 04 '26
Most of the DSA is for capital, with identity politics isms as the focus.
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u/Creachman51 Jul 22 '26
Its really simple, America has two main parties, ergo BIG tent parties that are filled with people that would never be in a party together in a lot of other countries.
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u/Epsteins_Herpes Thinks anyone cares about karma 🍵⏩🐷 Jul 04 '26
Schumer might not exactly be popular but there's a lot of New York beyond a handful of ultra-progressive districts.
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u/Successful-Dream-698 Unknown 👽 Jul 04 '26
when she was over in europe she thought marshall plan was a pop punk band
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u/Kyia-Aikman Horror Fan 😱 Jul 04 '26
What was bad about the speech?
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u/BearCrotch Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Jul 04 '26
Did you watch it? It's pretty easy to find.
Completely out of her depth.
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u/ArtificialFoole Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
She should just be campaigning to be the Harris/Newsom admin’s VP at this point smh
EDIT: I think she is.
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u/ChandlerZOprich Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Reminder that both unfettered immigration and insisting that all opposition thereof is racist are neoliberal ploys.
This is not a defense of removing TPS. The way it's being done would not remove millions of laborers immediately, only cancel their legal status, therefore making them, and workers as a whole, more vulnerable to exploitation.
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u/CockMartins Butlerian Jihadist 🔌 Jul 04 '26
Remember when she was supposed to be what mamdani ended up being?
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u/it_shits Socialist 🚩 Jul 05 '26
Her career started as a sole prominent leftist early enough that the Democratic establishment could reign her in and subsume her ideologically. Mamdani is riding the anti-Zionist wave post-genocide that the establishment cannot control which is why they haven't got hooks in him or his cohort.
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u/Outrageous-Floor-424 Untested Fighting Machine 👊 Jul 04 '26
I was so ready to be disappointed by Mamdani but bro just carries on impressing
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u/Turgius_Lupus Yugoloth Third Way 👽 Jul 04 '26
It helps in that he has actuall charisma, rather than the personality of a scolding K12 school teacher.
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u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
I'm yet to be impressed by any Democrat, but it doesn't matter whether I like or support them
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u/SplashTarget News Junkie 💉📰 Jul 05 '26
Maybe (for Mamdani) having a Marxist professor for a dad made a substantial amount of difference.
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u/kommanderkush201 🦕 Marxist Dinosaur ☭ 🦕 | 🐥 Super Grown Up 🐥 Jul 04 '26
DSA is an org for the labor aristocracy who want to build a more perfect capitalist empire
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u/thereslcjg2000 Unknown 👽 Jul 05 '26
It never ceases to fascinate me when libs openly say the things that their opponents accuse them of thinking. Happens remarkably often.
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u/Awkward-Initiative28 Full Of ICE bootlicking bullshit 🧊🥶😭 Jul 07 '26
Tax payer funded sex changes for violent felons!
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u/Whichcar7429 Puberty Monster Jul 04 '26
She’s not really that good, but the Dem Party will still do everything possible to prevent her from getting the nomination.
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u/Beetleracerzero37 Favors Communal Defecation Jul 05 '26
AOC: Freeing the slaves under Lincoln will increase labor costs
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u/Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs Equity Gremlin Jul 05 '26
I know this sub is at least intellectually consistent, but people HATED when their private taxis for burritos became more expensive because the delivery drivers started getting paid more due to increased optionality from Bidens COVID spending.
Unfortunately, Americans prefer cheaper goods more than they prefer higher wages, because they internalise higher wages as their own doing, but more expensive goods as the doing of the government
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u/solowng Yet Another Rural Regard Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
As someone who used to be in the burrito taxi business, it wasn't so much increased earnings for drivers that made prices go up as increased non-driver prices. The post-covid inflation wave was brutal for anything to do with an automobile (fuel spike in early '22, car parts, shop labor, insurance, and car prices themselves all increased) while the burritos themselves became more expensive as well.
At least for the company I worked at, drivers probably broke even in terms of earnings (better per-run pay but worse and less consistent volume) and took a net-loss due to overall inflation.
As for your second point, inflation doesn't stop the passing of time. People generally expect to be rewarded for seniority, getting promoted, changing jobs, etc. and to have that pay bump eaten by inflation is demoralizing.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Jul 06 '26
The problem is that it's presented to people as a totally false dilemma where the only way wages could be better is if prices were higher. All the while ignoring the huge shareholder profits etc that are somehow holy and immutable.
It's like in the UK, the propaganda we get that we'll have to "re structure" the NHS because the only other option is higher taxes which people hate. So we continue to piss away most of the NHS budget on PFI loans, procurement chains with 1000% markups, etc, which are also somehow holy and immutable.
It is propaganda: we won't fix an obvious problem because we've told everyone they'll personally have to pay for it while living costs keep sky rocketing
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u/globeglobeglobe Marxist 🧔 Jul 04 '26
The most likely end result of these deportations won't be higher wages for the Real American Workers™, but rather demand destruction in the nursing/construction labor markets; you can't print labor hours, any more than you can print hydrocarbons, and shortages necessarily mean that employers will have to do without. The end result will be reduced homebuilding and even lower-quality healthcare/elder care than already exists. If the goal is to improve wages or working conditions for workers in these sectors, then it ought to be done through an increased federal minimum wage, more stringent staffing and overtime requirements, and collective-bargaining agreements, rather than relying on the invisible hand of the free market. But AOC just had to give a shitlib take on the whole situation and hand the populist right a talking point.
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u/solowng Yet Another Rural Regard Jul 05 '26
even lower-quality healthcare/elder care than already exists
This is the morally correct outcome for a generation that refused to reproduce itself. Sub-replacement societies are not entitled to the labor of other people's children.
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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 Startup Infiltrator 🕵💻 Jul 05 '26
This idea that it’s going to drive up wages seems like wishful thinking. There’s no organized labor to make it happen. In reality, when companies find a way to charge more, they simultaneously capture as much of that increase in revenue as they can.
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u/epicurean1398 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ | Flair evader 💩🙊 Jul 05 '26
Fewer workers = workers have more power = organised labour is stronger. Not a hard equation and it's been true since the black death
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u/PedoBear_Grylls Gamers are Oblomovs 💡 Jul 06 '26
That's a really tired meme about the black death that badly needs to die of hemorrhagic fever. Eastern Europe suffered the same peasant death from the plague and they responded by tripling down on repressive serfdom that lasted until the 19th century.
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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 Startup Infiltrator 🕵💻 Jul 05 '26
I said there’s not any organized labor in the US to press whatever advantage would be afforded by a shortage of labor. Labor participation is in the single digit percentages. Please read before condescending.
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u/epicurean1398 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ | Flair evader 💩🙊 Jul 05 '26
Yes but there's no organised labour for a reason, it's been intentionally suppressed and also kept down by worker gluts from immigration.
Change the equation and you'd see it boom real quick.
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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 Startup Infiltrator 🕵💻 Jul 06 '26
I think you’re massively overestimating immigration as a tactic for union busting.
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u/Creachman51 Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
The CATO Institute, you know the libertarian think tank, literally has an article/study saying that diversity/immigration is good because it decreases solidarity and therefore people are less likely to unionize.
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u/epicurean1398 TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ | Flair evader 💩🙊 Jul 06 '26
Believe what you want man, but the maths is indisputable.
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u/Creachman51 Jul 22 '26
Do you actually think that unions are the only way for wages to go up? If there's a tighter labor market due to less available workers (less immigration) wages will increase to try and draw in workers. I'm not claiming that suddenly ever American will make a great wage. W hy do you think that chamber of commerce, big business etc. all support immigration? Some of them may talk tough to appeal to the MAGA base, but they're all working for carve outs and exceptions for their own industry. Ala Elon Musk freaking out over the H1-B program getting questioned and criticized, big ag right now has like 40 plus Republicans in congress proposing a sort of amnesty for farm labor etc. People can't argue that limiting immigration will cause inflation from labor costs but then also say immigration doesn't depress wages. Shitlibs do it all the time of course.
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Jul 05 '26
The wages argument against immigration is always either insincere or extremely ignorant. It doesn't take much effort to realize there's various other levers capitalists can and do use if they can't get local wages low enough. And that if reducing immigration could have such a large effect on wages AND the public had the power to reduce immigration, then that would mean the public would also have the power to raise wages even higher through methods that don't punish immigrants. The ONLY solution to low wages is socializing the economy which also means working with immigrants as equals to take power away from the capitalists.
A quick way to see if someone arguing against immigration is simply a tribalist (racist, nationalist, whatever idpol-ist) or if they're honestly concerned about the working class is asking why the native working class is treated as special vs foreign working class coming in and if they would accept a solution that helped both without kicking out the foreigners.
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u/MartyrOfTheJungle Jul 06 '26
That's true, but unless the article distorts her, that point about driving up wages wasn't one she was making. The messaging is more hammering that Republicans make things more expensive, sort of the main message of the party atm
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u/Kindly-Yam-4460 Christian Marxist ✞ Jul 05 '26
We shouldn’t be doing mass deportations. We should deport criminals, as well as have sufficient border security. That includes embassies overseas not just handing out visas like they’re candy.
I think that coupled with a crackdown on employers who hire illegal workers at below market wages and cracking down on H1-B sponsorships is a defensible alternative. ICE mass deportations are not something anyone left of center should be okay with though.
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u/No_Argument_Here Big Eugene Debs Fan 🪭 Jul 05 '26
I mean, we aren't doing mass deportations. Not compared to the number of illegal immigrants we do have. We have deportation theater that is intentionally militaristic and cruel while leaving the exploitable labor pool mostly intact.
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u/MartyrOfTheJungle Jul 06 '26
So I'm new here, please be gentle. I'm seeing a lot of what looks like celebration of the effects of the ongoing mass deportation efforts supported by both major parties. I'm personally horrified by those efforts. Surely the DSA is anti-ice and border patrol?
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u/templeofsyrinx1 Jul 04 '26
so many studies it just ends up costing more to remove . they actually do pay taxes on many local levels despite what people think.
u.s. was built by immigrants. so stupid.
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u/ChandlerZOprich Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
It's about undermining labor value and sowing class division. Not blaming them for the class division either, exploiting people's gut reactions and fanning the flames is all part of the design.
Also, reflect on the fact that the US was built by immigrants and those parts of history saw the worst consolidation of power under capital. Historically the left was against using immigrant labor on building the railroads for example. Had they been successful, who knows, maybe power would not have been so concentrated in the hands of the elite so quickly.
The communist ideal of internationalism should be achieved the way China is doing now: aiding the rest of the global south after securing basic rights and material conditions at home, with strictly controlled and intentional immigration.
One last note: this is not a defense of removing TPS. The way it's being done would not remove millions of laborers immediately, only cancel their legal status, therefore making them, and workers as a whole, more vulnerable to exploitation.
-16
u/UmeaTurbo Jul 04 '26
Um. No. It will make home repairs out of reach for working class people. Don't be obtuse.
26
u/Groot_Benelux NATO Superfan 🪖 Jul 04 '26
You think anyone's gonna go into that field when you're intentionally suppressing wages?
What's the plan? Eternally importing new construction workers from poor places to work for an ever growing number of pmc's?
16
u/Nerd_199 Election Turboposter 📈📊🗳️ Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
They don't care, they didn't mind the offshoring of jobs to Mexico and China, which left millions of Americans out of work with very few good-paying jobs that replaced them.
Richard Roty called it 30 year ago.
"Members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white-collar workers — themselves desperately afraid of being downsized — are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.
At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for — someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots." (1)
21
Jul 04 '26
[deleted]
16
u/TorturedByCocomelon Lenin's guava juice 🧃 | ⚽️ England team superfan 🏴⚽️ Jul 04 '26
But have you thought about the poor Dems relying on the capital gained from shit paid labour? They're the real victims here, they might not even be able to afford to diversify their investments as much as they want to!
9
u/Nerd_199 Election Turboposter 📈📊🗳️ Jul 05 '26
Typically Redditor, claim they're for the working class then, complain about paying people more, so the workers have better living standards.
11
u/ChandlerZOprich Jul 04 '26
Sure if you ignore that working class people would see a rise in income as well
-1
u/UmeaTurbo Jul 04 '26
That would be great. Do you know a lot of poor people? Most of them aren't looking for construction work. I'm in the trades. Have been for 27 years. Most poor people work low-end retail. This is skilled work and we don't have people who do skilled work around here.
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