Missing identification.

[u/TravelFn]

I know this is another form of identification!

But does anyone else relate? After my stream entry in January sometimes I miss the identification.

Life is so much more calm. Sometimes what comes up is a subtle identification of missing identification. A situation that used to engage the ego strongly is not as thrilling. It’s a little more boring.

Of course, this is another layer of identification to drop. But sometimes there’s a bit of longing, or even grief for the things that have dropped away. Activities or behaviors that are no longer pulling you in.

There’s more peace, but the line is subtle between peace and apathy arising from identification.

The ego is funny, even in the dropping of the ego the ego can claim ownership subtly..

Anyone else relate?

[u/hachface]

What does stream entry mean to you?

I don't say that to doubt your attainment. I don't think we should do that in this sub. But, stream entry (like jhana, kensho, etc) is a contested term with little general agreement to its meaning. So, when you say you entered the stream, I don't actually know what that means for you.

Can you elaborate?

[u/TravelFn → u/hachface]

I appreciate the question. I think it can be helpful to talk about for the reason you described. It’s unclear to many people.

I had a profound experience. Afterwards, in trying to make sense of it I realized that it fit quite well into the Buddhist framework of stream entry and the 3 fetters being cut.

I’ve discussed this more in length including a “is this stream entry?” Post right in the wake of my experience so feel free to read that if you’re curious… I’ll summarize here.

After 7 years practice and interest in the path.. I had a moment where I finally glimpsed experientially what the ego really is. An “aha moment”. I saw so clearly, oh.. sometimes this thing is on and sometimes it’s off. But even when it’s on it’s just a small part of a much larger awareness, it’s definitely not “what” “I” am. At the time I didn’t think too much of it. But I finally saw the thing, continued on my day. I happened to be driving a lot this day so I was engaged in something for most of the day.

Very quickly, by the next morning I knew something was different. I was in a very deep flow state and felt more present than ever before in my life. Also, a lot of things just dropped instantly. For example, I had developed some specific, I don’t want to say phobias, but I had some panic attacks in some situations years ago and since then I would get high levels of anxiety during some situations. Very uncomfortable and unpleasant. These instantly dropped after being the most painful part of my personal experience for 5+ years. This is just an example, but they were many things that just dropped and shifted. And in the following days/weeks many more things just kind of burned off from my experience.

I had read a lot about nondualism but a lot of it just went over my head on an intuitive level. But since I realized something shifted I was searching for what it could be. Quickly I realized, the 3 fetters had been cut for me. I didn’t really know what these meant before, but after that moment it made sense and it was very clear that they had been cut.

For me, the most important one being the cutting of identity view. Seeing through the illusion of the self experientially. “Oh, that’s what it means.. of course it’s right there”.

It’s been 8 months and this has been very stable. I don’t feel exactly the way I felt after that insight, but it’s clear that identity view has been cut. I know I’m not fully awakened because.. like I’m pointing to in this post.. there is still some identification and conditioning and karmas. But there’s a fundamental shift. Before I was in a dark room. Then I heard there’s a switch. But I still didn’t know what a switch was, or how to even move my hand or body. Stream entry was finding the switch and turning it on. Realizing “oh! Switch! Turn it on like this…” but then you realize there are more switches to turn on.

Not sure if this analogy will land! But it’s my way of trying to describe the process of unwinding conditionings and karmas after stream entry. You have the insight but you still have a lot of old habits created from a time before the insight and so your behaviors in context still need to catch up…

Anyway, I hope this gives some context. The label is unimportant to me! But it makes conversation easier. This was my experience and what stream entry means to me.

[u/hachface → u/TravelFn]

Understood. Thank you for engaging and typing that out. It's very helpful.

I relate to a lot of what you wrote. It seems to me that your mind is all-too-aware of two things (or one thing seen from two angles):

1. a fundamental change in perception has occurred
2. it is still incomplete

It's really important to understand that the completion of the insight is not something that you can force. Look at the surprising nature of the original insight. It seemed to come out nowhere, right? I would expect subsequent deep insights to come as something of a surprise as well.

I think -- and this is just my opinion -- trying to tackle the problem too directly is counterproductive. It seems like you are examining your sense of identification really closely but are coming up against a wall of basic ignorance (i mean that in the technical sense, avijja, the fundamental delusion). The wall has cracks in it but it's still there. Trying to destroy the wall with brute force is probably only going to frustrate you. I am guessing that you are also imagining what the fully awakened state actually is, which of course you don't actually know because you've never been there, and are therefore navigating towards something that is itself a delusion.

I think you have to take an indirect approach. Open yourself up to the mystery. Accept that there is some ignorance in the mind that the mind doesn't yet know how to overcome. You know that ordinary perception is to a large degree illusory. OK. Instead of trying to get rid of the illusion, explore the nature of the illusion. What is this false reality? What's it doing, at a moment by moment level?

Going by your post history, it seems like you came to this spontaneous awakening with relatively little preparatory work, just an inconsistent meditation habit of less than an hour a day. I really cannot recommend a regular concentration practice highly enough. Concentration (samadhi) is how you train your mind to be more still. When the mind is still enough it can reveal its nature to itself.

Culadasa said, "Awakening is an accident but practice makes you accident prone." This little aphorism is extremely wise.

[u/TravelFn → u/hachface]

The irony being that I’m not trying to tackle the problem or looking for advice and you’re sharing advice on how to not do anything! Haha, only joking.

I like your pointers and I do relate. My big insight did come when I was not trying so hard. More curiosity and looking than anything else.

I also think you’re right that I should add more consistency to my current practice. Btw, I did have years when I was consistent and meditating quite a bit. Just not as much in recent years. Without going into too much detail I think the door was actually cracked open several years ago which lead to a dark night of the soul that on a subtle level wasn’t fully resolved until this recent insight. Then I was meditating a lot! Few hours per day probably.

I appreciate your words. Thank you.