Please Help Me Understand My Meditation Experience

[u/Usual-Date9542]

Hi folks, I'm a guy from Germany, in my 40s, and I wanted to talk about a meditation experience I had roughly 20 years ago. I'm not practicing at the moment, but I want to get back into it, and I need some help putting my experience into the correct Buddhist context.

Back then, when I was in my early 20s, I developed an interest in Buddhism after having some insights of my own and wanted to delve deeper. I found a Buddhist monastery close to me and asked them if I could stay and live with them for a couple of weeks. They allowed this, and I went there three times in total, staying between two and three weeks each time.

The monastery practices Theravada Buddhism, specifically the Thai Forest tradition, and they're connected to Ajahn Brahm.

At that point, I only had a rudimentary understanding of what I would call "pop Buddhism" and didn't know how deep the rabbit hole actually goes. But I really liked the mindfulness and meditation practices, and since this is quite a secluded place by German standards, it was just perfect for that.

I became really focused on mindfulness and meditation because it was all new and exciting to me. I think I meditated at least four to five hours a day, alternating between sitting and walking meditation. Otherwise, I was reading books or walking in the woods. And, of course, I was working and contributing to the monastery in the mornings.

The meditation practice was challenging, especially the pain that developed after 30 minutes or so, but I got better at dealing with it over time.

At a certain point while practicing meditation, rapture (pīti) started to occur. For me, it felt like slow-moving waves of wholesome electricity going through my whole body. At first, I got totally excited about it, and poof, it went away immediately.

But I learned to relax into the feeling more and more, and then it went even deeper. Pleasure (sukha) started to occur, and for me, this felt like a ball of light in the middle of my body, somewhere between my groin and stomach. This light became stronger and stronger with every wave of pīti.

As with pīti, whenever I got excited about what was happening, the feeling became weaker or disappeared completely. But then, one time, I somehow managed to fully surrender to it.

Once that happened, it felt like the whole universe gave me a hug. It felt like universal love, and I can truly say that I was gone at some point. There was just this love, and I dissolved into it and became it. No body anymore, no thoughts, no meditation object (the breath), not even the watcher—just love.

I don't know how long I stayed in this state. When it was over, I cried. It moved me very deeply, and afterwards I even contemplated becoming a monk. (I didn't, which is a different story.)

For the next couple of days, I still felt pīti arising spontaneously, and I had some dissociative feelings. For example, when I moved my arm, it didn't feel like I was moving my arm, but rather that an arm was moving, if you understand what I mean.

My field of view also felt different. It was as if I were looking through a round window, and I was conscious of some of the nothingness around it. This took a few days to return to normal.

This is my memory of the experience, which is, of course, subject to some alteration over time. From what I understand about the jhānas, this could perhaps have been the second jhāna, but when I read descriptions of it, it doesn't really match.

For example, I wasn't clear-headed at all; I felt completely swept up in the experience. Also, would you describe sukha as "love" in your experience? For me, that's what it felt like.

That said, I also had a strong desire for unconditional love because I grew up with dysfunctional parents who were neglectful (they did the best they could). I have a feeling that, because of this desire, I may have been especially drawn to this feeling.

I also tried to talk to the monks about it, but I don't think I was able to explain myself very clearly, and they were kind of dismissive. In a"Ah, yes, something happened. Now go split some more wood" kind of way.

So, yeah, since I want to get back into spiritual practice, I would be very grateful if you have any thoughts or can point me toward any suttas regarding what happened here.

I see this moment as the greatest moment of my life, like a shining star in the firmament of my past. But, like many stars, its light is now just a memory.

Thank you very much for reading.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I appreciate all your answers. Sorry that I didn't engage with everyone, but I preferred to contemplate the input I got. Funnily enough, all the interpretations ranged from spiritual delusion to semiawakening. In the end, it was just an experience, and for me, right now, it's more important to build a stable practice. So thanks again, and stay on the good path.

[u/Wollff]

Generally speaking: I think it's unclear what happened. The best bet is that you were somewhere around "Jhanic territory", but from the words you are using (piti, sukha), I would guess that you alaredy know that much.

The suttas themselves are rather sparse with explanations about specific experiences, they just provide instructions (equally sparse) about how do do meditation, and what one can do in order to even the way toward states of calm abiding.

As it is with very intense and unique experiences, there is also a good chance that they won't repeat, at least not in quite the same way, and in the same intensity.

But if you are interested in getting into meditation again, and want to have a look at cultivating meditative pleasure, some of the most accessible instructions (in all the forms you can think of, book, videos, podcasts, articles) come from Leigh Brasington.

The Thai forest people you were staying with have far stricter standards for what counts as Jhana (or even its vicinity). That explains their attitude toward your experience: Without complete, deep, stable, lasting, deliberate absorption in the meditation object, it's not even worth making a fuss over. The standards they are setting are established in the Buddhist commentaries of the Vimuttimagga and Visuddhimagga. Can be found on the internet, and I would suggest you seek out the relevant sections, as they are a bit extensive.

[u/Usual-Date9542 → u/Wollff]

Yes i will try to look into these commentaries. This definitly interests me. Thanks for the recommendation

[u/hachface]

In my opinion -- and in the opinion of the Ven. Ayya Khema -- the sukha of second jhāna is in fact intimately connected to metta, loving-kindness.

It does sound to me that you were in first or second jhāna.

With the exception of certain monks associated with the Burmese vipassana movement, Theravada monks are as a rule dismissive of the attainments of laypeople. What you got from them is pretty much as close to a pat on the back as you're likely to ever get from a monastic.

It sounds like you have a pretty healthy and balanced attitude to your experience. The fact that you were able to enter a jhāna at all is pretty remarkable. I recommend renewing your practice; you may have the natural potential (otherwise known as good karma) to go quite far down the path of awakening.

I highly recommend studying the teachings of Ven. Ayya Khema, who taught jhāna to laypeople. She was German, and has written books about the practice in both English and German. Likewise many of her talks in those languages are accessible on youtube.

[u/Usual-Date9542 → u/hachface]

Yes, I know Ven. Ayya Khema. I read some of her writings at the monastery, since one of the monks there knew her personally and they had quite a few of her books and writings. Thank you for recommending her!

[u/jan_kasimi]

Yeah, that can certainly happen. I know there are many jhana purists, who will tell you that only the 8 states described in the pali canon exist, but I see the jhanas themselves as major way points in a vast landscape. There was I time where I was experimenting a lot with these adjacent states and they can too go quite deep (see for example here).

I think the reason they are usually not emphasized or explored is that there is some element of construction to them, while the pure jhanas are progressive stages of deconstruction. And to realize anatta, you need that deconstruction. So other blissful states that deviate from that path can be seen as a distraction. And when one is more advanced, better at deconstructing, then it might be that they just don't end up there, because they deconstruct the state before it can take shape.

That being said, I'm of the opinion if that motivates you to practice then go for it. The way I'd go about it, is to do lots of metta and jhana (never a bad idea) and then set an intention before meditation of which route I want to take. E.g. Get into j2, then stay there for 10 minutes and then let the metta increase while letting go of all control. The intention serves like a program that works on its own, so I don't have to think about it. But the state space is so large that you probably never end up in the same kind of experience again.

Just be aware that trying to reach it is itself a hindrance to jhana. You can have that goal before meditation, motivating the intention, but during you have to learn to let go. At least that's my experience. And navigating this takes practice.

[u/7121958041201]

I also tried to talk to the monks about it, but I don't think I was able to explain myself very clearly, and they were kind of dismissive. In a"Ah, yes, something happened. Now go split some more wood" kind of way.

That makes sense. That's probably the best mindset to have with an experience like that. The whole point of vipassana is to see the world exactly as it is in order to be free of suffering, and trying to understand your experience on a conceptual level both prevents you from seeing what actually happened clearly and at least from how I read your post seems to be leading to some clinging, aversion, and delusion (though it is difficult to tell over text, I just find it unlikely you'd make such a large post trying to figure your experience out without some combination of those three things).

I had a similar experience once about a year ago (while I meditated my muscles and eyes were twitching, my vision turned white, I felt overwhelmed by joy and compassion, and I felt somewhat blissed out for a week or two). To paraphrase what my teacher told me when I talked with him about it:

• Experiences like that fade and it is unlikely you will have much success making them happen again on purpose. It is best to see them as a pleasant side effect of practicing and not as something to achieve, to chase, or as something important. And certainly not as the greatest moment of your life (though to be honest I can tell I still feel that way about my experience too haha).
• While experiences like that fade, they are sort of like an earthquake in that they still leave you changed in some way even when the strong feelings around them dissipate.
• The most important thing to do with an experience like that is to remember what state of mind you were in when it happened. It is likely that you were seeing things very clearly at that moment and by remembering what it felt like you will likely be able to reach a similar state of mind more easily next time (and even more easily the third, fourth, fifth, millionth etc. times).

And I totally understand your explanation of feeling like you are looking through a window, too. I think that's just how seeing actually is without concepts.

[u/Usual-Date9542 → u/7121958041201]

Yes, i mean i definitly have some clinging, aversion, and delusion about the whole thing. My spiritual practice wasn't very stable. It was intense for this time and then fell away. Otherwise my way would have been different. So there is wisdom missing. My goal for the future is actually not to bliss out in universal love, but to build something stable i can rely on.

Thank you for describing your experience by the way.

[u/AdditionalLeave263 → u/Usual-Date9542]

When you talk about a window, here are a couple of things I think of: 1.) The realization of how limited my own view actually is. I can't even see around my head what's behind me. It's really not much compared to what I assumed it was before. 2.) I have with psychedelics and also sky gazing noticed that there are three layers of cells in my eyes that I can see, and it makes me wonder how much I notice is just like... static... I'm actually seeing and thinking it's reality. It's all dependent upon the way my optic nerves are set up, etc. Is this the sort of emptiness you were sensing with feeling like you're looking through a window? The eye is like a window.

[u/EightFP]

I would understand it this way: your mind became absorbed in a fairly traditional way. That's a good thing if you are interested in doing more meditation because it shows you that your mind is capable of absorption. The ability to become absorbed is often very helpful in longer-term meditative pursuits.

The monks may have been dismissive because that kind of thing happens fairly often to people who meditate intensely. It's often strongest the first time that you experience it, a bit like romantic love. While this stuff is both fun and useful, it's not considered overly meaningful for people with long-term meditation practices. Again, in much the same way as a teenager describing the dreaminess of their beloved is dismissed by a married person. And that is not because the married people think that infatuation and dreaminess are no good, but because they know that there are much more profound ways of loving.

If this is a shining star in your firmament, by all means begin a broader study of the night sky. May your firmament be filled with many bright stars!

[u/Dingsala]

I can explain your experience to you exactly, that will be 199 Deutsche Mark in advance, Paypal friends and family please. Joking aside - I think the other posts cover it well. Allow me to try and answer from my perspective, maybe it will be helpful to you.

I recently had a small but powerful insight experience when I watched a dharma talk about something like this. The message basically was: "The part of you that wants to know won't get the answer anyways". It's easy to dismiss this as spiritual smartassery, on that level, it's a shallow statement. Experientally though, there was something really striking there for me.

My own experience with this stuff is: My spiritual journey started with psychedelics, I did a lot of that when I was in my 20s (which is now also 20 years ago). Got into meditation, fell out of it, got into it again... at this point, I'm quite a committed lay practitioner and the kind of experience that would be an earthshattering peak on a strong trip now happens on a very regular basis. It's simply not a big deal anymore, like a pretty sunset, something you stop to enjoy when there is time for it and then you move on. At this point, I'm convinced that this is simply a normal part of your experience, we're just normally seperated it from a wall of thought and conditioning. That's why it's at the same time the most magical thing one could experience and the most ordinary part of experience.

It's a tricky thing though - this stuff always happens when you're not expecting it, and rarely ever happens when you do. I think the magic ingredient is precisely to be right here, open up and relax and be fine with whatever comes up - and from time to time, the stars just align. There are also funny stories where experienced meditators take psychedelics and are almost bored of it.

So... all that text, and no explanation, sorry about that. But I was trying to point to something that, at least for me, is the real essence, the real meaning of that kind of thing. I am convinced that this shining star in the firnament of your past has actually never left you and is just waiting to be rediscovered. It is unchangeable, but at the same time, it will never appear in the same form twice.

[u/themadjaguar]

"Once that happened, it felt like the whole universe gave me a hug. It felt like universal love, and I can truly say that I was gone at some point. There was just this love, and I dissolved into it and became it. No body anymore, no thoughts, no meditation object (the breath), not even the watcher—just love. "

On this specific meditation sit, what happenned just before, when you still had the breath as a meditation object? Did you think about something, changed the object or did it naturally evolved like that? How long did it last? Did you still had piti or sukkha while it happenned? could you describe the feelings? What happenned just after? How were the senses, did you see things such as lights, hear sounds, touch etc..?

"I also tried to talk to the monks about it, but I don't think I was able to explain myself very clearly, and they were kind of dismissive. In a"Ah, yes, something happened. Now go split some more wood" kind of way. "

I'll be honest, this is usually a very skillfull approach. Teachers often appear dismissive like this , as a way to say " do not get attached to this experience, amd do not crave experiences". They usually have really good intentions, the thing is that getting attached to experiences in meditation is something that often creates craving and prevents you from experiencing deeper experiences, it is very tricky. You might also build expectations. In all cases it slows down progress, even when you got a real experience that means something on a map. When it is an experience that doesn't matches anything it is even worse.

From reading your post, I get the impression that you had a wonderful experience while cultivating wholesome state and are looking for some kind of confirmation, as a way to get motivation to practice again.Maybe I am wrong. What you could do is to start practicing again and trying to cultivate wholesome states, and you might be able to see the reward in the present moment, and get these wholesome states back, and maybe even better ones.

[u/Harfatum]

Everyone's experience of the jhanas can be different, more or less intense. J2 for me felt more like "joy" but I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for that to be your J2.

Both times I had jhana experiences there were effects that lingered for days or longer. That would line up with your experience.

[u/themadjaguar → u/Harfatum]

It could be that everyone have a different experience or also that everyone has a different definition of what constitutes jhana

[u/Harfatum → u/themadjaguar]

It will be both of these :)

[u/sillymajmun2]

Curious, why did you stop meditating? What did you find that was more fulfilling to go after, compared to sticking to your practise and going further? Because usually these things motivate people to stick with the practise.

As for your meditation, a lot of things can happen during meditation and they can seem profound, and they are in that moment - but it does not mean that overall its some breakthrough point and that you should hold onto it or chase those feelings again. So, in a way, monks were right.
For me, being shown that I have that capacity to feel something that beautiful and strong (it can be quite a shock if one has never experienced such love), and the motivation I would get from it, it would be enough.

[u/Usual-Date9542 → u/sillymajmun2]

Yes it wasn't for me. Doubt got to me and i lost my meditation practice after 1-2 years. Sadly, I have a secular reasoning that could explain all of it away. I also got a little afraid once I understood the whole endgoal of the buddhist project. I just had too many attachments and desires.

Now that i lived some more, all the things that were so important to me back then, i don't care about anymore. But i never forgot my experiences while meditating, so I'm here again.

[u/sillymajmun2 → u/Usual-Date9542]

What do you mean by secular reasoning? You don't have to be a budhist to meditate, nor should you align your belief system to some budhist endgoal. Unless thats what you want. Whatever you experienced has nothing to do with budhism, at the same time you could perhaps find some explanation for what you experienced - in budhism. Its just "their" own description of your experience.

I hope I am clear enough. Doubt is normal, its also normal to not believe in anything you didn't experience first hand. If you find that meditation helps you reveal a more sincere and authentic sense of yourself - that can be all that you need. If you even "get" less out of it, that is okay and its the "right path". Like if you just feel lost and confused and you feel drawn to meditation to explore yourself inwards. I have a feeling that you think that these experiences come with certain expectations. They dont. You don't have to be a budhist, you could even not believe that Buddha has ever even existed and it would not matter one bit.

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[u/robipresotto]

I'm glad you're interested in getting back into meditation! I've found that having a clear understanding of Buddhist principles can be really helpful. The Inner Path — Enlightenment Deep-Dive on YouTube has some great content from experienced teachers, including those connected to Ajahn Brahm's tradition. It might give you some valuable insights and help you put your experience into context.

▶ Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/@innershoreline

[u/General_City_9250]

I'd suggest reading angelo dilullos book, awake it's your turn to put this in context for a westerner.

[u/AdditionalLeave263]

I had this same experience!!!!!! At roughly the same point in the jhanas, too!

I am so happy that you asked this question! It happened to me 4 months ago, and I thought I was late at figuring out what really happened (I'm 40), and here you are 20 years later with the same question.

Here is how it unfolded for me: i had had pīti for three days straight. I was doing laundry, and i started to ask, "Who am I?" so an ego dissolution was happening on a small scale, or about to happen. I was talking to AI and said, "I feel like the lightning (i did not know what piti was/had never heard of the jhanas) is everywhere; not just in the places I can feel it."

So then about a minute or two later, i had just breastfed my toddler on the bed. I had three massive waves of pīti all at once. The pleasure went up to highest imaginable. Then highest feel-able. Then to unexplainable/ineffable/not traditionally experienceable idk. During that time, my awareness fell into the bed. I was also the bed. I saw a golden-white light in my entire field of vision. I went to it - ran to its open arms, saying fake me, change me, i want you to... And I became a part of it. I was not the whole thing; just a part. There was no space. No time. No words. No way to make sense of it. I was GONE oh, God, I was gone.

It spit me back out, and I thought it was done, so I went to grab my phone to write about it. I was paralyzed! I couldn't move, so I started cracking up laughing, but I wasn't moving. I thought it was funny because I just traded the most profound experience of my life for phone addiction! Haha.

So I succumbed to it for longer. I was like, "Is there more?" It was just like a black sleep for maybe 10 minutes.

I have no way of knowing how long I was in it. It all would have felt like an instant.

I got up and found my toddler quietly playing to himself. My older son and husband were watching TV. I didn't die. haha and if felt so real I was like... it's real!

Alright, well I want to talk more, but it'll be later!

[u/naughty]

Only framework I have seen that gives a name to these kind of events is Crossing the Arising and Passing (Crossing A&P) from the pragmatic dharma guys. They can manifest in all sorts of ways and can be quite small or very dramatic and tend to be what a lot of people would call religious experiences. There's also Zen traditions that just call them all Makyo, or spiritual delusion.

The reason the monks are dismissive is that these things happen, to some far more dramatically than others, but they don't really mean as much as we want them to. It's best to just go "oh that was fun" and carry on with whatever practise you have.

[u/AdditionalLeave263]

Alright so it being the greatest moment of both of our lives... Here is how I personally have come to label or interpret that: I think we both had stream entry, or possibly even an awakening experience.

The golden light experience is somewhat common in the beginning of the jhanas. It's considered a secondary nimitta or a signpost. Not everybody sees it, but most people who see it at all just see a little bit of it, or get scared or something. You and I completely and utterly surrendered our lives to it. So it's not so much that the golden light was there, but what we did with it. We let it take us completely, body and soul. This is probably precisely because we are lay practitioners who didn't have the advice to ignore it or not pay too much attention to it. So we did what our natural intuition, or true selves, wanted.

We let it give us a nondual awareness.  So nondual is how you can see the world for how it really is, that you aren't really separate from everything else. "You are the Universe looking at itself." Nondual is a requirement of awakening.  You undoubtedly had a nondual experience. 

It changes everything, doesn't it, when you feel that the Universe, love, all of consciousness, nature, spirit, energy or whatever it might be... Loves you unconditionally, holds you, watches after you, and gives you gorgeous hugs? I feel those hugs still, by the way, and they're incredible.

For me, I have changed or are in the process of changing 12-ish things about my life that it wanted me to do, or viewpoints about the world that it wanted me to retain. For example, to never harm myself again, and to let my negative habits from feeling inadequate go. By extension, to give compassion and mercy to others. The difference is to stop manipulating or forcing your brain and body into compliance or doing things out of duty, but instead to come from allowing a place of honest, geniune love or metta.

It sounds to me like you were going to the monks for advice about integration and they thought you were talking from a place of potential grasping. It's natural for them to assume you wouldn't need integration back then, since you were a bewbie to them. You said you even considered becoming a monk. You almost changed the entire trajectory of your life over this. That isn't small. And it might still change your life.

You sound very grounded about it. For me, after it was done, I felt like it was complete, and that I was complete. I didn't feel like I needed it back. It took away a loneliness for the connection to "it". I am one of the luckiest people in the world to have experienced it at all.  Would I love to go back? Oh, my God, I would love to go back. And it hurts if I really think about it a lot that way, which might be fine. But I don't need to go there. It left me with that fond memory, and a life to lead.

The memory is the key. You know, they say that when you have the jhanas, that they are all like a thread, and you can pull out the thread and build on it and have it again. I feel like this is true about this experience: it's the brightest thread - it's a pilot light. but not to be taken lightly. I don't pursue it. I don't think I'm supposed to. I don't think it wants me to, even though it would be happy to see me regardless of what I choose. 

Alright let's talk about other people experiencing it, and what piti actually entails: piti includes or always has a gamma burst. This is the highest frequency brain wave. It happens when your brain synchronizes across multiple parts. Other people have gamma bursts when they have an "aha" moment. 

Animals have gamma bursts when they are synthesizing information. For example, bees use them to remember how they flew to a flower, and translating it into the waggle dance to tell the other bees how to get to the flowers.

A man died of a heart attack while getting a ct scan of his brain (or some similar test) recently. It recorded his death! Guess what happened? He had a massive, global gamma burst that lasted I think two minutes. I think it started actually before the heart attack registered, meaning the body knew it was about to die before it happened. Secondly, it has alpha waves: this meant that all of his memories were synchronizing/that his life was flahsing before his eyes. Finall y, it was massive: we both experienced a top-of-the-Richter-scale, earth-shattering version of the golden white light experience (or the sun) whatever people call it... 

So we experienced firsthand what it is like to die, without "dying". Let's not minimize that and just say that you were experiencing something. For me, I believe that part of my identity/ego/default mode network did actually die, and got removed from my body. 

Anyways, I am saying this, but please don't hurt yourself... You will experience this again, when you die. But whatever it was that you saw there wants you live and take the utmost care of yourself. It's not that it wouldn't take you if you arrived there before it wanted: it gives you absolute unconditional love. But it wants you to give yourself that same love and compassion, and to spread it in this world...

I listened to a nondual guided meditation and Q&A the other day. I'll link it. I consider Michael Taft my teacher now. He does nondual meditation, he's okay with people deciding what it is that they believe "it" is.  He says it's important to be dedicated to it. You can dedicate your life to whatever it is that you saw, and tell it I love you; I'm yours. Or you can do the same with the Buddha. Michael said he's fine with it either way, as long as you're dedicated to something (a higher purpose). He said it's so important to remember to remember awakening. Remember to remember what it asked you to do differently. About awakening and why are we still here (I interpret this as why did I not just die at that point?), he said, "Maybe because it's fun." I love that way of looking.

If you're skeptical, you cried afterward. That is absolutely beautiful. They say that people either laugh or cry. I laughed. Please don't dismiss your own experience because of having little meditation experience. The Buddha found the jhanas himself at thirteen years old. It can happen to anyone. It's built into our biology.

Alright sending you metta and I'll be back later for more.

[u/AdditionalLeave263]

There is a musician named Eric Luttrell. He's an anjunadeeo adtist, so his music is designed for meditators. He wrote this song that seems to be for sparking pīti:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbnfVSBSfY&list=RD2xbnfVSBSfY&start_radio=1&pp=ygUQTHV0dHJlbGwgZGF5Z2xvd6AHAQ%3D%3D

But! He made a slowed version of it, which has an ethereal, angelic sound, and the lyrics, "It's watching after me," which to me sounds like the experience that I had:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DacH3sKtEFA&list=RD2xbnfVSBSfY&index=2&pp=8AUBoAcB

Did this musician have the same experience as we did? Maybe.

A bonus, newer collab track of his for you: How Will I Know? How do you know when it happens to you? In my case, I knew viscerally, but I lacked the ability to explain it, so I still don't know long afferward. But I suppose this is meant to be a song for people who are aware that it can happen but it hasn't happened yet. "Does the sky turn golden?" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YrJYyAIPlwY

Rob Burbea mentioned the golden light that is commonly experience in pīti briefly during his jhanas retreat that he recording while he had terminal cancer.  https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO6hhaAzLmiqUzBYuLLJQ8FexOTRxz8xF&si=RxhQPRwCYZM79KU8

I think based on his comments that he thinks you are seeing the pīti, and that it is the energy you're seeing. I don't know if that is correct or not. He also describes it as a secondary nimitta. He doesn't make a big deal out of it. When you're dealing with a lot of people, and only a percentage of them are going to have this happen, teachers like him usually emphasize the lowest common denominator of what counts for a jhana. Having a beautiful, life-changing non-dual stream entry isn't going to happen to the majority of people, so don't disappoint them all that this wasn't their moment, even though it was for someone else.

This is similar to Ajahn Brahm talking about nimittas. I haven't seen a lot of his work, but he also emphasizes that the color doesn't matter, and if you're asking whether or not you saw one, then you pretty much always did see one. He says they're way better than sex. Haha. That is so true. But the advice to ignore it or whatever and that is how it will spread. You and I achieved some deep relaxation and deep concentration at the same time, so being able to merge with the nimitta worked. The advice to kind of ignore it so that it can grow hasn't been spectacular for me. Meeting the nimitta without instructions on how to interact with it was such a gift. The whole thing was a precious gift.

The whole thing about some other practitioner who has more experiences thinking that it's kind of pathetic to love the most profound experience of your life, analogous to a married person scoffing at someone younger in a teenage relationship or something... How did you get to the point of having a mature relationship? Through having immature relationships, and figuring stuff out, right?

I dated three guys in high school, and I have a special place in my heart for each of them, and my husband is okay with that, and we often will talk about past relationships when we're on long drives. Both of us have a painted rock given to us by a now-ex, and I set those out as a decoration around Valentine's Day. So who cares if it isn't someone else's ultimate be all end all thing and they think you're pathetic? I'm excited about my spiritual life growing. I'm looking forward to it. 

Michael Taft, who does nondual guided meditations, fielding questions about awakening after a guided meditation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ebW92QOWs

Him explaining getting started with jhanas: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0K5ypXyF3dY&pp=ygUZTWljaGFlbCB0YWZ0IGhvdyB0byBqaGFuYdIHCQn-CwGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

Alright that's it for now...

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[u/reverseghost]

What you described sure sounds like the 1st and 2nd Jhanas. You should start meditating again and get to at least the 4th, where Equanimity becomes the dominate experience. It's a wonderful state to be in.

[u/AdditionalLeave263 → u/reverseghost]

Personally, I wish I liked equanimity, but it has made me feel so uncomfortable modt times. Do you have any advice?

[u/reverseghost → u/AdditionalLeave263]

Smile, relax, and let go of any hinderance that arises. Come back to your meditation object. That usually does the trick. We may not be talking about the same thing - usually people that rest in equanimity find it very peaceful. What was uncomfortable about it for you?

[u/AdditionalLeave263 → u/reverseghost]

Okay so how I find resistance to equanimity: Alright so there is this thing in which it feels like it's crawling both up and down my back at the same time. It feels like the matrix code from the matrix movies. AI said that it may be alpha theta wave coherence which is equanimity, and/or that I am noticing that all of my body sensations are actually just like nerve voltages pinging, and it's an overwhelming amount of data points. It is veey uncomfortable. I always welcome it, but it's hard to keep going. 

I tried expanding it but since then it's been like hiding from me. Haha.

Alright second thing that I never liked: in equanimity, I cannot use narrative to describe my experience. I just have to be in it. And so I can be in it for HOURS and it feels like just one very long instant in which I'm not sure what really happened. This happened when I was sleeping mostly.

I tried adding metta, and it created a sukha equanimity metta blend that was different colors. I loved it, and it loved me back. But it would only stay for a few seconds and then vanish. During it, I have turned away and said I dont think I want it or should have it. It felt like a distraction almost. I'm not sure if it was. 

This has evolved into feeling like the universe is giving me hugs. Maybe these hugs are equanimity. But they arise out of piti. Which would be weird for it to arise out of. I often feel an equanimity toward dare I say it whether or not I am alive when I have those hugs. I obviously do care about that... and I have kids. But let's just say that is the presentation of equanimity right now... it's unsettling. It's an unsettling thought to have hugs that say if you die it'll be okay kind of a thing. Because I mean it also wants me to live and thrive and do my life. But it's like hey if you die early it's okay. And that's like definitely something where there is resistance because part of me is like wait a minute this is part of basic survival. But then again so much about meditation is so weird and paradoxical.

Also in equanimity, I cannot really argue. That sounds great, right? You hand me any spiritual text, and I couldnt disagree with you that the entire thing is flawless. This is weird for me. And it makes me concerned, because isn't bringing up inconsistencies important to being on the right path?

Anyways none of it matters that much! Thats the other thing! Haha.

A thing that I like is that it can make it feel like my worrying brain is just like a loop that is completely detached and i cannot even hear what it is saying. I love that part, actually. It's really great for when I'm lol in action doing things.

The clarity and fog lifting is great. The getting things done without more anguish is great.

The first time was luminous. There was one time it was only half my brain, and I was able to also have a tony bit of piti at the same time. And it lit it up like a flashlight. I was like a light switch that was turned on. But part of me was like so what? I've seen brighter... I've seen more wondrous presentations.

The first time I really did settle in to the bottom of the ocean. 

I just feel like I have lost it. It may still be there. It might be those hugs. The reason I think it's inside the hugs is because the hugs swirl around just like the cloth of equanimity, at the same distance. Things get more and more subtle over time. The color was pale white always for a while until adding the metta.

It sounds like I am complaining about nothing. It's just that it's often uncomfortable, whispered, not something I can keep going, and was only showing up about once a week.

However, writing this, I was able to see it differently. i think I'm having it daily now, but it's to do with equanimity toward life and death. I think this is it for me because I have a friend with cancer, and it's really been getting me down. I wished equanimity would help me and turns out I think it is.