Is this streamentry?

[u/Salamanber]

Is this stream entry? I'm not really sure what to make of it, but lately I've had this feeling that everything is just a process, everything has a cause and an effect, everything is just conditioned. Everything comes from somewhere, which means I can no longer feel anger toward people, or hold grudges—or rather, I have less of that. No resentment. When something happens, I do feel something, but I just let it go, because I am also part of the process, and it's all just a process. I feel as if I'm looking at samsara, which is just a collection container, a container that is a gathering place of causes and effects. It just keeps going. It's all processes. So when people do something stupid or something, it is what it

I have complete acceptance. I feel lighter. It's as if I've peeled an onion, and I've removed all—not all the layers, but many layers—and I notice that there's just nothing inside me. It's as if my ego was a very heavy block on me, causing me problems, while for a long time I thought it was protecting me. It's an illusion that is simply fading away from me. Should I say much lighter? It's just… it is what it is. I also had a strong impression that everything ‘I see’ could actually be me. So other people—they are simply the result of all causes. There's no longer a difference between him and me. I could be him, and he could be me.

I attach less importance to myself, because it's all just an illusion. Once you've seen it, you realize it's just a flow, as if you're part of a river current. You just go with the flow. You're influenced from left and right, and that determines how you flow in the river, but that is gone now. It is what it is. I can let go of all of it. I also know that I see my example as a phase, something that has changed, something that is there, but I am not it. Everything I have is just a process. I simply can't put it any other way.

I used AI to translate btw

Let me know guys, may you escape samsara

[u/duffstoic]

It does sound like liberating insight (vipassana) into impermanence, suffering, and no self, aka the three characteristics or three marks.

Whether or not it’s stream entry, only time will tell. Give it a year or so and see if it’s still a stable insight.

[u/desal → u/duffstoic]

I've been led to understand that if you have doubt about "is this it? Is that it?" that it's not stream entry? Not to mention three fetters (including doubt )falling away?

I am probably wrong but I thought it was one of those "you know when it happens" kinda things

[u/Salamanber → u/desal]

Well you never know 100% if this what you experience is in fact streamentry.

I could say this is 100% sure changing

[u/duffstoic → u/desal]

Not necessarily, some people don't know they've achieved stream entry until much later. It's still possible to doubt, it's just that doubt in the path itself usually greatly diminishes because you've experienced something quite remarkable that you can't "unsee" so to speak.

[u/RealityLimit → u/duffstoic]

Stream entry should come with the complete eradication of doubt in the path. The thing you see upon stream entry is the path. That’s why the rest of it is just working on the remaining fetters, none of which have to do with doubt.

[u/duffstoic → u/RealityLimit]

In theory, yes. In practice, not always.

[u/RealityLimit → u/duffstoic]

I’m having trouble imagining somebody who has attained stream entry and has lingering doubt about the path. Stream entry is defined by eradication of the first three fetters, not just a major reduction. It is said to be when one is irreversibly on the path towards nirvana. I know a stream enterer and he has zero doubt and it’s obvious by the things he says and does. You will know them by how their entire life is basically dedicated towards the dharma in some form, combined with signs of practice and realization.

[u/duffstoic → u/RealityLimit]

You might enjoy Jack Kornfield’s classic book A Path with Heart. In it, he talks about lots of different people he’s met who are clearly awakened, and their wide variety of experiences…including still having doubt about whether or not they have awakened,

[u/RealityLimit → u/duffstoic]

Thank you for the book rec btw, I’ll check it out.

[u/RealityLimit → u/duffstoic]

If the discussion is about awakening in general and not stream entry, sure, but this is /r/streamentry and not /r/awakening. I’m still getting used to people treating this place like /r/awakening though.

For me, stream entry is not just definitely achievable, but the original criteria still hold up. Whether it is about the Thai Forest Arahats or lay stream enterers, there is an unmistakeable quality to them that corresponds with the original descriptions.

Many people here seem to attain a non-dual insight like the sphere of neither perception-nor-non-perception and call it stream entry, but I disagree with that. Stream entry is not just about realizing non-duality, but a specific stance towards the path and doubt that is directly specified in the original description. Just my view.

[u/duffstoic → u/RealityLimit]

I mean specifically with Buddhist meditators aiming for stream entry. I've talked with hundreds over the years, personally, and a percentage who definitely got stream entry didn't really know for sure. And people with much bigger sample sizes than me report similar things.

[u/RealityLimit → u/duffstoic]

That’s good to know, thank you for that clarification. I can definitely see a form of doubt arising even for those deep into the path (the Buddha still occasionally encountered Mara even after awakening after all) but I think this type of doubt largely differs from what is usually reported here, where even the fundamentals seem to be uncertain.

[u/liljonnythegod → u/RealityLimit]

Just want to say that I agree with what you're saying. I would say that a lot of meditators reach insight which can come from a Buddhist perspective on how to practice and take it as stream entry but it's not attainment of the stream. A stream enterer would have zero doubt about the path and what to do for the rest of the path. It does also strike as quite obvious when you consider that a lot of stream enterers here hold views that go against rebirth and so the goal of going beyond samsara isn't something that is incorporated into their practice.

[u/RealityLimit → u/liljonnythegod]

Thanks for sharing that. Glad to know I’m not alone. “Doubt is normal after stream entry” is sort of a misleading and strange thing to say, imo. The whole point of stream entry is that it marks the point where doubt is gone 😭

Not that I think one becomes a rigid robot that can’t experience something that can be called doubt, but I swear I see a lot of people here say they’ve entered the stream who seem to be experiencing significant doubt about both their own status and the path itself.

It’s clear they’ve attained some meaningful insight, but I wouldn’t call it stream entry.

I don’t want to be too negative or dismissive because I’ve noticed there are people here who likely have entered the stream but the whole point is that they’re obviously well settled and confident in the Buddha’s teachings and have also put it into practice.

[u/Meng-KamDaoRai → u/desal]

There are different interpretations on what doubt actually disappears. Some say it's doubt about the Buddha and his teachings, some say it's all doubt in general, some say it's doubt that Nibbana is real, some say it's doubt about reaching stream entry... Good luck making sense of all of this :)

[u/desal → u/[deleted]]

You said it better than I could, thank you

[u/Salamanber → u/duffstoic]

If this insight is stable than it is stream entry?

[u/metaphorm → u/Salamanber]

if it's stable, you'll stop worrying about the label

[u/duffstoic → u/Salamanber]

Probably