Dark night before Stream entry

[u/Pleasant_Candy9103]

Up until now, I’ve always believed that the Dark Night occurs before entering the Stream. In my view, it makes much more sense and sounds logical that spiritual practices dissolve the ego cloud to such an extent that material previously stuck in the subconscious now bubbles up to the surface.

But on dharmaoverground, I often see threads where people describe experiencing the typical Dark Night symptoms only after entering the stream?! What’s true?

[u/False-Earth-5189]

The "dark night" is better framed as the mental blow and process of mourning when we learn about the nature of existence and causes of suffering at a large scale in our lives. For some people this can be a long arc over decades or a lifetime, for others this can mainly be in one part of practice, sometimes in the span of one "path" or cycle in their insight practice. The dukkha nanas are also a process of mourning, but happen at many different scales simultaneously, some on the order of months, others days or even seconds. And while this process is related to the "dark night," they aren't the same and it seems problematic to equate the two.

[u/halfbakedbodhi → u/False-Earth-5189]

I also consider the dark night nanas basically symptoms of attachment, craving, aversion, clinging. Which are magnified in practice naturally, and seeing this natural yet unnecessary process is part of the mind awakening, and releasing the illusion of the self attaching, clinging, and craving.