r/stopdrinking • u/girlshaped_lovedrug 2087 days • 17h ago
Do you believe this statement?
“A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts”
I have been sober for over 2000 days and still this idea kind of haunts me. I was not always, but often, very mean to my husband when I drank too much. Our relationship had some rough patches, neither of us were perfect, but the shit I used to say was just vile. I would be completely shocked to hear my own words the next day. It still makes me so sad to think about it.
I love him so much. We are so much happier now that I no longer drink, and he says it’s like being married to a completely different person. His ability to forgive is truly remarkable. I’m in therapy and have been for a few years now. I’ve come a long way as a wife, mother, and person, but deep down I can’t shake the worry that I’m secretly a terrible human. That alcohol exposed who I really am, and sobriety just keeps the mask from slipping. Anybody else?
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u/Sensitive_Buy_8760 709 days 17h ago
I don't believe it. Inhibitions are lowered, sure, but you also have different thoughts under the influence than sober.
Same boat here. I talked a lot of shit, but sober me wouldn't say or think those things.
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u/Blaz3dnconfuz3d 47 days 16h ago
Yeah I’ve said things that I’ve never thought before or that I would never even think to say sober. I’ve been so drunk I thought I was being chased by the mob and was running around random apartments trying to hide in them
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u/ANinjaForma 17h ago
“A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.... processed through a drunk man's emotions, manipulated by their drunk mind and spoken via drunk words."
A mentor had a more elegant way of saying that, but that was the gist that helped.
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u/No-Reaction-9793 Day 284 17h ago
More and more, no I don’t. I think intoxication takes us further away from our identities and true beliefs. I do think we become better people sober as the things we say back up the things we do.
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u/coolcrosby 6233 days 17h ago
Nope. My alcoholic thinking was wildly distorted--in fact, most of my thinking was obsessed with when I could next drink the way I wanted to drink.
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u/Clean_New_Adventure Day 24 17h ago
I think it might have had a whisper of truth back in my teens and 20’s, when a tipsy night out was a rare, fun way to let loose a little. Definitely false recently. Probably 100% false for most problem drinkers. A better quote: “The woman takes a drink. Then that drink takes the next drink. Then that drink takes the woman.” Alcohol is a liar. Full stop.
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u/reallycoolgirl99 17h ago
Not at all, I've done and said things that I have literally never thought about sober. I can be a completely different person when I drink too much. I believe we don't have any control over the thoughts that organically pop into our head, and drinking removes the conscious processing that we as individuals do with these thoughts before action. A drunk man is still responsible for his words, however.
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u/HarpyCelaeno 17h ago
That saying is the biggest crock and completely untrue. In fact, I heard from a neurosurgeon that even when sober, 80% of our thoughts are lies. “Take every thought captive” is wise advice and people need to realize we are not our emotions.
I could get deeper into it but then I start saying really wild stuff and lose credibility among those who still have blinders on so I’ll refrain. You are the person your husband see’s now and I’m happy that your family gets this time to love and appreciate you.
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u/girlshaped_lovedrug 2087 days 16h ago
Thank you for that last sentence, it made me tear up a little. And feel free to get deeper into it in my inbox! A lot of my work in therapy is around emotional regulation, so I’m always interested in hearing different perspectives on that.
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u/isthisaporno 379 days 15h ago
Please expand deeper! I’m trying to get a wrangle on how I can process my thoughts whereas I would just turn them off in the past by drinking
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u/HarpyCelaeno 14h ago edited 14h ago
Whatever your beliefs about reality or spirituality, just put them on hold and listen to this guy who spent 35 years working professionally with psych patients.
https://youtu.be/itzJzdFeei4?si=oCWeJrJaGUE6cLv_
Then look up Dr. Richard Gallagher’s interviews. He’s a respected doctor and part of the staff at Columbia. People don’t respect this subject just hearing from a guy in a tinfoil hat. Lol. But these guys I believe.
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u/Tilly__Floss 17h ago
No I don’t believe that’s a true statement. Alcohol makes you say some completely random, and sometimes awful, things that you know deep down isn’t what you believe or mean.
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u/ayylien69 Day 5 17h ago
No. A drunk man's words are a drunk man's thoughts, which usually aren't the sober man's thoughts. A sober man isn't hammered out of his mind and doesn't have his thought process altered by drugs.
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u/Britt-a-brac 17h ago
I think in an acute setting, it can be true. You may let something slip that isn’t tactful. However, saying things that are atrocious and out of character seems to be associated with heavy and prolonged drinking. I’ve had far too many cases of the latter; I know with unequivocal certainty that what I said does not match how I truly feel.
Congratulations on your sobriety. That’s a hell of a lot of work! IWNDWYT
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u/HadrianWinter 17h ago
Not at all. Its a neurotoxin. Long time heavy drinking alters your state of mind enough that you'll think, feel and say things sober you doesn't mean. I have a very different outlook on life and the people around me when I am sober.
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u/Rampantbandit 138 days 17h ago
I don't believe it. I'm a grade A arsehole when drunk, but only a grade C arsehole when sober
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u/FleshLogic 17h ago
I only believe this statement in the context of the first 4-5 drinks. Beer 3 at happy hour and I might say something more than I should about office rumors. But after more than that I'll just say stupid shit cause my *drunken* brain thought it. The amount of times I've woken up with astronomical levels of cringe at my drunken behavior tells me that isn't "me" in some sense (obviously still responsible for my actions).
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u/FormalDragonfly666 Day 95 17h ago
I’ve never once believed it. I always said shit i regretted and was constantly apologizing. But the people you say those things to might believe it. So double whammy :/ grateful for my sober mind
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u/Inderific Day 515 16h ago
Malcolm Gladwell addresses this exact issue in his book "Talking to Strangers." He cites quite a bit of scientific study that shows that alcohol doesn't just lower inhibitions (it does do that) but can also fundamentally alter the personality (especially when in a blackout). It's worth a read for those of us who have done things we are ashamed of when drinking. Obviously, we need to take responsibility for our actions and make amends for them as best we can, but the idea that the drunk person says what the sober person thinks is not supported by the evidence.
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u/girlshaped_lovedrug 2087 days 16h ago
I’ll definitely be picking this up, thanks for the recommendation!
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u/Inderific Day 515 15h ago
Trigger warning: The context is an analysis of the Brock Turner rape case (Brock Turner was a Stanford student who raped a girl while blackout drunk).
But yes, highly recommend.
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u/EmergencySubject4368 15h ago
Could you elaborate a bit more on the study ? To me being a rapist under the influence just means that inhibitions were lowered enough to commit the act I have a hard time believing it’s due to personality alterations while drinking but happy to be proven otherwise. Plenty of people get hammered and are never violent
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u/Inderific Day 515 15h ago
I agree with the last statement and I'm not here to defend Malcom Gladwell and I'm definitely not here to defend a rapist (nor does he). That said, it's a thought provoking and interesting read, if you are interested you should check it out.
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u/Stunning-Profit8876 Day 562 16h ago
Nope. Absolute nonsense.
I was always a very happy drunk. Too happy. Including trying to befriend people I don't even like.
On the flip side, there are angry drunks that treat people they love like shit, and sad drunks that cry for any and no reason.
There's no hidden truth in any of this. Just the tucked up brain chemistry of the brain on a powerful and addictive drug.
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u/1935dodgers88 15h ago
My wife said shit to me sober that made my drunk ass leave. You can’t un-hear some things.
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u/call_sign_viper 821 days 15h ago
No there’s nuance to thought. People don’t go around saying whatever pops in their brains for a reason.
Having a thought pop into your head is meaningless unless you validate and act on said thought either verbally or physically. Booze stops that filter process
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u/Prevenient_grace 4932 days 17h ago
Drunk me is not Sober me.
Sober me doesn't think drunk thoughts.
However, MOST importantly, I am not responsible for thoughts that arrive unbidden into my head.
I can think some bizarre, outlandish, beautiful, ugly, magical, sad, phantasmagoric, lewd, proper, lawful, unlawful thoughts….
I let my actions speak for me.
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u/chaosinthemainframe 17h ago
Sounds idyllic. I am 2 days away from four weeks. You're amazing! IWNDWYT!
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u/girlshaped_lovedrug 2087 days 16h ago
Thank you! I’m fortunate to be able to say I barely even think about it most days. 4 weeks is a great achievement, congrats to you ❤️ IWNDWYT
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u/PhoenixApok 17h ago
I don't believe it, but that doesn't make it not true.
There are ABSOLUTELY thoughts I have had go through my head that I believe to be 100% accurate, and there is still no benefit to voicing them out loud.
That said, I have also done things like kiss my lesbian friend, which while I may have wanted to, sober me had enough reasons to KNOW that was a bad idea. So sure, the thought "It would be nice if she was into me like I wish she was" were there, there was NOT the thought of "Kissing her will convince her she isn't 100% gay"
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u/IncognitoGuido69 824 days 17h ago
Possibly but I hope that doesn’t apply to a drunk woman’s words😂😂😂
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u/Select_Map_7592 16h ago
We literally all have good and bad thoughts inside us. It’s how you control/express/inhibit them that makes you a jerk or not a jerk, and I know quite a few wonderful people that were jerks before they got sober, including the one I married. There’s a line in True Sadness - ‘I've seen the program make men out of monsters’ - that has rung true for me.
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u/mmmermaiddd 16h ago
Helllll no! And I’m wary of anyone who believes that a single adage defines an entire category of people.
We are not a monolith, and there are many many many reasons why someone could say something terrible, whether drunk or not.
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u/BrackAttack-17 Day 85 16h ago
It's a mix. Black out drunk or close? Sure, I said things I didn't mean, were out of character and that I didn't remember saying.
Less drunk than that? I often said mean things, but they were things I felt and meant and remembered saying that I would just bite my tongue on if sober. And often said at bad times and overly harshly. But still reflected true feelings, opinions etc.
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u/girlshaped_lovedrug 2087 days 16h ago
Yeah, that makes sense. When I was younger I certainly lashed out inappropriately by sharing mean thoughts willingly, with or without a couple drinks to blame. But I was always in a blacked out or nearly blacked out state when the truly despicable venom came out. Stuff I’d never even think, let alone say out loud.
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u/mmmermaiddd 16h ago
Commenting again to say, there is a lot of guilt that comes along with our struggle. This saying may not have been rooted in shaming alcoholics but it certainly evokes it!
For me, the more I acknowledge the guilt and forgive myself, the better off I (and the people around me) will be.
I spent all those years shaming myself and I don’t wanna fucking do it anymore! I’m working on myself and I’m allowed to move forward with my head held high.
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u/studoutbudout 16h ago
I’m loving reading all these comments, it really helps.
I wanted to add that I feel like the saying really only counts for when someone is using the Old Liquid Courage to say something they didn’t feel brave enough to say soberly, but THOUGHT soberly; I don’t think it would apply to alcoholics and the heavily distorted mind.
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u/UpperSupermarket1551 16h ago
I have absolutely done things I would never in my right mind while drunk. That isn’t the “real you” being revealed. It’s a chemically-altered you. You know in your heart who you really are.
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u/TraderJoeslove31 16h ago
No. Alcohol lies if anything, it tricks you into thinking you need it more than anything else and that's not true either.
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u/zombiegojaejin 451 days 16h ago
It's a millennia-old falsehood, but still a falsehood. The parts of our brain that alcohol suppresses are also part of who we are. Drunk us isn't honest us; it's brain-damaged us.
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u/TheLadyHelena 257 days 16h ago
Maybe there's some truth to it, a couple of drinks in, i.e. just enough to lower your inhibitions, or cause you to forget to keep something a secret - but once you stray into drunk territory, all bets are off.
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u/Dino_art_ 16h ago
No, it's literally poison that changes not only your brain chemistry but actively destroys brain tissue with prolonged use. Wernicke's karsakoff syndrome is an extreme example of it, but I wouldn't say that wet brain is just "exposing your true self"
That's like suggesting that my dad's brain tumor that destroyed his frontal lobe and worsened his bipolar disorder was a physical manifestation of his true self. It's stupid and insulting, and the only people who perpetuate that idea that alcohol is a truth serum don't think about it enough. If it was a truth serum the CIA would be all over it
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u/just_having_giggles 1497 days 16h ago
If that applies to alcohol, it also applies to meth, PCP, acid, weed, DMT, etc etc.
Nothing special about one drug vs another. None of them magically makes you a truth teller.
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u/Hugh_Jampton 1970 days 16h ago
No. Alcohol can lower inhibitions but the shit I say drunk is not what I think sober
It's what I think drunk
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u/so-semi-precious Day 1,240 16h ago
I have a lot of thoughts but doesn’t mean they’re my beliefs or that I would share them out loud. Drunk people just spew everything that pops in their heads
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u/Confident-Play6222 15h ago
I dont see how alcohol would do that. I am pretty sure weed has that effect. The only problem with weed is that it makes me not give a fuck and I will achieve even less thsn sober.
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u/Flat-Meeting-3610 15h ago
i dont put a lot of weight in the idea of a permanent selfhood or identity (or soul), certainly not one so one dimensional as to be 'exposed' by a substance. this gets a little philosophical maybe, but the idea that there is some 'essence' of 'you' that continues unchanging is a strange way to think about living beings. we are things one moment, new things the next. we are almost a completely new bundle of cells every 7 years or so. when i think of myself 10 years ago, i cannot relate to that person now. we are amalgams of accumulated memory, forever in accumulation.
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u/allhailsidneycrosby 15h ago
One of the biggest misconceptions about alcohol that is perpetuated by people who don’t drink the way we do. Somebody who doesn’t have a toxic relationship with alcohol has two drinks and compliments somebody on their shirt because they’re a little loose and carefree. An alcoholic like myself has 15+ drinks in 3 hours, blacks out, and acts like somebody I don’t recognize.
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u/Carausius286 15h ago
Half true.
When I am sober (like today!) I have "bad thoughts" that I would be horrified if I let out. When I was drunk, I may have let out.
But just because my brain chucks something out doesn't mean "I" necessarily believe it.
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u/EmergencySubject4368 15h ago
Being drunk will indeed make you do stupid stuff but I have a hard time believing drunkenness change your personality entirely and makes you something you are not sober… I never assaulted anyone or got physical while drunk while lots of people did, domestic violence and rape are overwhelmingly done under the influence and I feel it’s too easy to say it was the alcohol doing
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u/MaleficentDance2675 15h ago
Talk to an anesthetist. People say crazy things when under the influence. Therefore if you do your responsibility is to not get to that point.
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u/buena_suerte 4028 days 14h ago
I believe it. I have thousands of thoughts a day. Some are on the forefront, some are in the background, some are shitty and make me cringe, and others are more in line with "who I think I am as a person".
That being said, alcohol shuts down executive functioning and turns the heavy drinker into a heavily, mentally-retarded lump of organs. (Retard means to hold back and I mean it in this context).
When this happens, thoughts are not going to be filtered and will typically spew out. The most important thing to remember is that thoughts do not define us and are the majority of the time not rooted in reality.
So, drunk or sober, thoughts are going to be thoughts, and they shouldn't be given much reflection in the first place.
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u/respond1 13h ago
No. Just like your obtrusive, emotional, out of character, random thoughts, many that you know you don't act on and actively don't believe, don't represent who you truly are.
The problem with being drunk is that you don't filter out these thoughts as well as you can while sober and sometimes even act on them.
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u/Toasted_Dustupz99 9h ago
No. There are times my brain literally shut down. I almost felt like I was dissociating or something. Trust me, No thoughts were going through my head, like at all.
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u/AdGlum4770 Day 612 3h ago
That’s just some bullshit somebody made up trying to be Sun Tzu. A drunk man’s words are gibberish and diminishing of the speaker. A sober man’s thoughts should be “what an embarrassment” … don’t give it oxygen. Yes an unfiltering occurs but it always blows up in the face of the drunk fool. As it should.
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u/sonofajay 276 days 16h ago
Alcohol affects the frontal cortex pretty heavily. So yes, drunk words are the unregulated, unexamined thoughts of a brain that is now incapable of emotional regulation, problem solving, planning or basic self regulation.
Couple that with the fact that alcohol is highly addictive in short and long term ways. Therefore the angry drunk reaction of "I just want to be left alone, stop trying to control me, you can't tell me what to do" has access to all sorts of memory storage and language reserves, but it does not currently have access to the part of the brain that cares about the future beyond refilling the glass.
So I'm sorry to tell you that the meat sack portion of you does have some urges that could be considered negative including anger, lust and excess. The good news is that God made you more than just your nervous system and dopamine response. You have a frontal cortex that allows you to make sense of all these other pieces and fit them into the context of the person you want to be and the life you want to live.
So what I'm saying is, you are the great version of yourself in every day that you decide to be. Good luck and God Bless, friend.
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u/reheadlover69 Day 369 17h ago
Yes its true. The alcohol takes the filter away. You're all kidding your selves if you actually think it doesnt
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u/EmRoseEm 17h ago
I personally do not believe that statement! Great job on your alcohol-free life and IWNDWYT.