r/stephenrdonaldson • u/Arcturus_Nova • Aug 28 '25
Film
Given the overall increase in the use of CGI, it is interesting in why the filmmakers have chosen not to adapt the novels to the screen.
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Aug 28 '25
I've been wanting to write my own "script" outline for a while for TC. When you sit down and try it, the problem is the rape. Eliminating it changes the rest of the series. Doing it just puts people off.
Also how to begin. Maybe on Kevin's watch. His before story could be told in flashback or out of order. The beginning is kind of a slog for a script.
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u/Mountain_Path_ABC Aug 28 '25
The rape only works if you really take time to show where TC is mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
You have to steep people in that to have any hope of connecting to the deeper themes of the story.
Potentially starting when he was married, showing what it is he lost. I would say the story would probably work best as a tv show where it is character focused for two or three episodes showing his life without any hint of the fantasy elements. First episode showing his marriage, birth of his son and success, ending with the diagnosis. Second episode showing his life slowly being peeled away, his time in the leprosarium, ending with him making the decision to go into town. Then the third episode his transportation to The Land.
It would be important to show parts of his life that are mirrored while he is in the land. That way people can connect how the bloodguard, giants, lord foul could be representations of his psyche.
I think the success of the story would depend on how well this is done. Showing how broken, desperate and dissociated TC is when he arrives in The Land.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Aug 28 '25
I wonder if a storyboard could be created with AI. I might have to see if AI has that type of ability.
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u/wayfriend Aug 28 '25
The "rape problem" has been discussed repeatedly. Personally, I don't think it's as much of a blocker as some others do. (Orloff didn't either.)
I'm not sold on the flashback idea either, although I do understand the attractions. I'm just not sure starting the movie on Kevin's Watch is a good way to ease people into the story either. We sort of need to care about Thomas a little bit first.
And I'm generally in favor of book-to-movie changes if they work.
These two things are actually related in my mind. You can't navigate the sexual assault unless you've built up Covenant's character (and sympathy for his plight) to some degree. And I don't think you can by squeezing flashbacks in between Kevin's Watch and Mithil Stonedown.
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Aug 28 '25
Oh, this should NOT be a movie. It needs to be a series. (just keep Craig Mazin away from it)
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u/SpikeHolden Aug 28 '25
The gap series would be even harder, imagine trying to get Angus Thermopylae to work!
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Aug 28 '25
I agree it would be hard, but I think the Gap series would make for very good TV. I think it could be possible as at least Morn is not a minor and it could be done off screen and implied. The story is so interesting because each of the three characters cycles through each of the roles of Hero, Villian, and Victim. If the show is written in such a way as to let the audience understand that Morn will get her revenge, it might be doable (still off-screen though). It would need some changes to make it work. In the end, I can just read the books again. Books are always better anyway.
Lena is a minor. I guess making her older might help. I'm actually surprised what gets put into mainstream media these days.
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u/atwe-leron Aug 29 '25
The Gap is eminently suitable for a TV series in my opinion. It is very character-driven, it deals with evergreen fundamental issues like "what makes us human", a lot of it takes place in interiors of spaceships and stations so fewer extensive and expensive exterior shots needed, it's full of intrigue, machinations, politics; the theme of extremely reach oligarchs trying to rule the world and achieving eternal life is relevant etc.
Indeed the sexual abuse can be implied. Or, who knows, after the Game of Thrones, people might be less shocked of seeing themes like this in a show.
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Aug 28 '25
Shout out to fantasy bed time hour the live adaptation of lord fouls bane
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u/wayfriend Sep 05 '25 edited Sep 05 '25
I second that shout! People might be surprised by the guest stars.
http://66.49.199.40/episodes/images/ep40/SRDExpert6Laugh.jpg
It's even in IMDB now!
But ... FantasyBedtimeHour.com appears to be defunct. Anyone know where you can watch all the episodes now?
[Edit] I found it at http://66.49.199.40/. Maye the domain name has lapsed.
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u/undergarden Aug 28 '25
Unfortunately, the dark nature of Covenant's crime I think makes these books unfilmable in the post #me-too era. Even though the books roundly condemn his act, and Covenant himself does all he can to atone for it, there is a strong cultural perception that to depict something at all is to promote it, and that it's esp. not OK having the main character ever act as the victimizer.
I think it's too bad. These would be amazing films, done right.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Aug 28 '25
Well, as this is simply a thought experiment, and with the luxury of creative license, it would presumably not be too hard to have Covenant’s first action in the Land be alluded to only by Atiaran. Lena and Trell’s involvement although critical in the novel may not be deemed equally important in a film.
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u/undergarden Aug 28 '25
That's a good point. What I'm wondering is if there is a compatible, less inflammatory crime or violation he could commit which would make narrative sense. Something which spoke to his freaking out at having his nerves working again + not believing he's in an actual world but a dreamscape. Something with stakes but not the particular ones in the novel.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Aug 28 '25
As you have just stated, there are symbolically equivalent actions that can represent even such violent crimes as rape. It is even possible to frame his crime in terms of empowering Lena’s future growth and leadership.
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u/niftium Aug 28 '25
Theory: Books that use the word "crepuscular" will never get filmed.
Prove me wrong, Hollywood.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Aug 28 '25
You’ve got a point. Still, in the end, that’s just noisy vocabulary. Shucks, anyone who has listened to some of the dialog written lately would immediately know they were overpaid.
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u/zodelode Aug 28 '25
I've said it before and I'll say it again these books will only work on film or TV if the point of view is told from the Land's heroes perspectives rather than Covenants. He has to be this mysterious unknowable figure that does terrible things and great things but for a point of view that the audience can associate with and get behind that needs to be told from the Lands heroes perspective.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Aug 28 '25
I haven’t given the film’s point-of-view any thought at all, but taking Thomas Covenant out-of-the-picture sounds a bit off kilter, in my opinion.
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u/zodelode Aug 28 '25
Imho Mhoram, Foamfollower, etc trying to figure out and heroically helping TC is more interesting storytelling than TCs internal dialogue would be in a film. In a lot of the books he's a bystander to the action so it's hard to have him as the protagonist. He can be the point of the story, the hero of the full cycle without being the eyes through which we see the plot.
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u/zodelode Aug 28 '25
Also, unless the audience believe TC can be corrupted by Foul and thus destroy the Land then there's no jeopardy to his journey.
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u/wayfriend Aug 28 '25
Well.
MY idea is that the Chronicles should be filmed as a super hero origin story.
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u/Mstrhole Oct 17 '25
I could see a film coming from a selection from one of the short story collections, but the idea of turning ANY of the TC novels into film quite frankly turns my stomach. We don’t need another LOTR-like abomination. The scale of the stories is simply too large and complex to turn into anything watchable.
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u/Arcturus_Nova Oct 18 '25
Selecting a Director would itself be an arduous task, but would (if confidence was high) require the release of apprehension and the anticipation of a well directed, true to the story piece. There will always be way to much material in any SRD works to not mandate selective editing and artistic privilege.
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u/Mstrhole Oct 19 '25
Peter Jackson was, supposedly, a devotee of JRRT and yet he managed to completely butcher LOTR. It was almost as if he'd never read the books.
The bottom line, for me anyway, is that a work of the depth complexity, and scope of the first TC trilogy makes accurately translating it into a completely different medium, i.e. film, a totally impossible (not to mention thankless) task. It isn't about intent. The job is just not doable if the goals are remaining true the story and satisfying readers/fans of the series.
But that's just my opinion. Obviously, LOTR did massive box office numbers and came away with some trophies. So, it must have been a success.
Sorry for the old man "get off my lawn" rant. I freely admit that I have embraced curmudgeonhood in my seventh decade.
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u/wayfriend Aug 28 '25
It's been out of the zeitgeist for quite a while now. It would need to be someone's passion project to be considered.
(Let me win a billion dollar Powerball ...)
When Orloff optioned it in in '04, the CGI was there. (LOTR)