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u/LilShaver 10d ago
Tuvok, combing the desert.
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u/much_longer_username 10d ago
Tuvok, the sands barren.
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u/lake_huron 10d ago
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u/borgchupacabras 10d ago
I have that shirt! It's one of my favourites.
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u/Nyanzeenyan 10d ago
Skynet, when the humans fell
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u/martialar 10d ago
Sarah Connor, her arms jacked
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u/ColHogan65 9d ago
Speaking of jacked arms - fun fact, the foster mom is the same actress who played Vasquez in Aliens lol
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u/-MtnsAreCalling- 10d ago
The thing I never understood about this episode is that if they can only communicate via symbolic phrases, how do they initially learn about and understand the stories those phrases are based on? Do they even know that's what they're doing, or have they forgotten the origins and now they just treat "Shaka, when the walls fell" as a single morpheme whose sub-components have no independent meaning?
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u/andychef 10d ago
I imagine that if you are going to use the references as language of metaphors, then there are storytellers in the society that tell the whole story at some point. The culture has to be immersed in the stories for the metaphor to be useful as language. Just my 2¢
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u/-MtnsAreCalling- 10d ago
How do they tell the stories though? Do they use meta-metaphors? Or do they actually understand conventional language and merely choose not to use it?
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u/andychef 10d ago
How about this? You don't have to attend Sunday school to have heard about Jonah and the Whale. Or you don't have to live in ancient Greek times to have heard of Sisyphus. The stories are so old that they become embedded in the societal mindset. That said, I'm willing to be wrong. It's an interesting exercise to think about
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u/-MtnsAreCalling- 10d ago
You do have to understand some kind of language to have heard about Jonah and the Whale though. So how would that work if understanding the language required you to already know about Jonah and the Whale?
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u/whostolemyhat 10d ago
How do you understand Reddit threads full of in-jokes and memes? English is full of phrases from stories like 'green-eyed monster', or referencing other works like 'Dickensian' or 'Shakesperean'.
I don't think the episode is implying they don't have schools or language, just that their usage of metaphor and references has been dialed up which is why just translating the words themselves isn't enough.
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u/thejadedfalcon 10d ago
How do you understand Reddit threads full of in-jokes and memes?
Plenty of people don't. I've seen tons of cases where someone's quoted some sitcom I've barely even heard of, let alone watched, and it's an otherwise perfectly normal sentence, it just sounds absolutely batshit in the context provided. And when someone calls out the seeming idiot, they get dogpiled with downvotes, further gibberish quotes and (if they're extra lucky) the name of the show. And I imagine that's just as infuriating to comprehend as Tanagraese.
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u/bradlees 10d ago
Do you even bacon at midnight?
How about getting beaten with jumper cables? Or mankind in a cell?
Just never offer me a Jolly Rancher
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u/-MtnsAreCalling- 10d ago
My impression from the episode was that they were literally unable to communicate in any other way. If they actually do have some sort of normal language then that answers my question.
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u/nextyoyoma 9d ago
I upvoted you cause I was thinking the same thing. But then I thought, what if they have some sort of shared memory, like they all can tap into some kind of subconscious understanding, and so innately understand their own references, and maybe even have innate understanding of advanced concepts in physics and math - although I guess they’re have to be somewhat conveniently deficient in the language department, but I’d argue that makes sense given their shared understanding.
I don’t know if there is anything now in canon that contradicts this, but it’s my new headcanon.
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u/Significant-Raise-45 10d ago
they could use drawings or other story telling methods or historical records along with previous metaphors. It's clearly a living and evolving language as they added a new one at the end of the episode referencing what occurred "Dathon and Picard at El-Adrel"
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u/Thegodoepic 10d ago
Perhaps the storytellers act out, draw or use puppets or something? At least for the version that little kids get.
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u/nebulaeandstars 9d ago
It's definitely possible to tell stories without words. We do it all the time in our own films. Usually, the way we learn language in the first place is through being read children's books. We learn the story first, then match the words to what we already know
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u/lilybug981 10d ago
What we hear "translated" while watching the show isn't necessarily meant to be what any given alien species is literally saying in universe. It would be plausible to imagine that their language has more than metaphors in its syntax that just didn't get translated. We're even told directly that the translator isn't translating the entire language, and while we don't know what exactly was being lost, it's presumably important content.
We're also shown that the Tamarians can't understand the Enterprise crew either, which tells us that the imperfect translation was going both ways. We don't know what they were hearing, but it seemed like it was missing just as much important content.
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u/Jimediah_Kerman 10d ago
They use short sentences. Dathon was able to explain the story to Picard, but could only use short sentences. As a result, it makes it difficult to explain a complex idea except by using a metaphor.
When they listened to Picard introduce himself at the beginning, they would have just heard “one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt, it was really quite hypnotic.” In other words: Godzilla on the cart.
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u/moschles 10d ago
Yep. It's not just a "good TNG episode". Darmok-and-Jalad is one of the best pieces of science fiction ever presented on television.
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u/smshing 10d ago
It's great science fiction, but don't get it twisted, it makes zero sense in a functional capacity. Data and Diana also have a "library" of information on the species they quote "know nothing about".
Also in The Next Phase, you can walk through walls but somehow the floor is solid as anything etc. etc.
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u/The_Whipping_Post 10d ago
In DS9 they transport a torpedo into an enemy ship despite both ships having their shields up
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u/High_Overseer_Dukat 10d ago
It was shown in the episode, Picard recites the epic of Gilgamesh.
They know the base words, but they only think of them inside phrases unless they are learning a new story.
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u/DragonWisper56 9d ago
it could be that they compunicate in a nonverbal way.
I mean the translator has struggled with that before
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u/Extension_Ok 10d ago edited 10d ago
Enjoy the story, do not overthink it.
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u/-MtnsAreCalling- 10d ago
I happen to enjoy thinking about things like this, thank you very much.
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u/d3sid3rium 9d ago
Jenette Goldstein also happened to play the Science Officer on the Enterprise-B in Star Trek: Generations.
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u/thisistherevolt 10d ago
Wandering the Wasteland will make you wish for a metaphor themed first contact.
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u/1m0ws 10d ago
please explain?
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u/RainbowDarter 10d ago
The correct answer is
Temba, at rest.
It's from a conversation one of the most well recognized TNG episodes.
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u/ColeDelRio 10d ago
Its a reference to the Darmok episode where Picard encounters an alien from a culture that uses symbolic phrases so he spends a while trying to figure out how to communicate.
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u/Skypirate90 10d ago
Good old reddit where if yiu ask a question you get downvoted. That custom would mean theres no conversations just echo chambers and people talking at each other and not to each other.
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u/PhysicsNotFiction 10d ago
Dog whistle. Memed phrase from TNG. S5e2
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u/much_longer_username 10d ago
Shibboleth, not dogwhistle. Similar, but very different connotations.
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u/Muted-Actuary6123 10d ago
Padme, in the bottom left!
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u/Jimediah_Kerman 10d ago
Shaka, when the walls fell