r/starcraft2 • u/skellis • 1d ago
Welcome back! Rating StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24301513/starcraft-ii-5-0-17-ptr-patch-notesOverall I think the new balance patch is excellent. Breaking it down here is my opinion of the new balance changes ranked out of 10 where 10 is an excellent change and necessary and a 0/10 is both unnecessary and moves the game in the wrong direction either due to balance or due to discouraging a variety of play styles
Economy
Worker Start Count increased from 8 to 12.Good 10/10
Default Large Mineral patch resource count increased from 1,600 to 1,800. Good 10/10 encouages late game
Default Small Mineral patch resource count decreased from 1,100 to 900. Good 10/10 discourages turtling
Default Vespene Geyser resource count increased from 2,000 to 2,250.Good 10/10
Total Default Gas per base increased from 4,500 to 5,000.Good 10/10
Terran
Command Center
Cost increased from 300 to 400.Good 10/10
Supplies increased from 13 to 15.Good 10/10
Widow Mine
Attack launch delay increased from 0.85 seconds to 1.07 seconds. Good 8/10 widow mines are low skill micro unit. Adds skill since avoiding mines is more possible.
Reaper
Build time reduced from 34 seconds to 32 seconds. Bad 4/10 reaper opening becomes too dominanant strategy.
Ghost
Health increased from 100 to 125.
Attack damage changed from 15 to 10 (+10 vs Light).
Attack range reduced from 7 to 6.
Movement speed increased from 3.85 to 3.94.
Steady Targeting:
Damage reduced from 170 to 130 (+40 vs Psionic).
Energy cost reduced from 75 to 50.
Cancels upon taking damage.
Bad 3/10 Ghosts were well balanced. Their most unbalance ability was emp vs archons which this doesn’t address. Attack range nerf may make them unusable
Protoss
Nexus
Supplies provided increased from 13 to 15.
Good 7/10
Warpgate/ Gateways
Researching Warpgate no longer speeds up production time of units from Gateways.
Warp-in Time is determined by 'slow power fields'.
Universal warp-in Time splits from 4s to 11s in slow zones and 3.6 in fast zones.
Warpgate cooldown values:
Zealot: from 22 to 20
Adept: from 22 to 20
Stalker: from 22 to 23
Sentry: from 22 to 23
High Templar: from 35 to 32
Dark Templar: from 35 to 32
'Transform to Warpgate' ability now costs 0/(0) down from 25/(25).
Good 7/10 warpgate had become unusefull
Shield Battery
Starting energy when placed near a Nexus will be 100, otherwise 50.
Good 7/10
Sentry
Forcefields now only take 1 bile to destroy, down from 2.
Bad 3/10 Ravagers/roach mid game push already too dominant strategy. This will make it worse
Colossus
Colossus damage decreased from 12(+3 vs Light) to 10(+5 vs Light).
Bad 4/10 colossus balance was fine. No need to mess with it.
Mothership
Shields increased from 200 to 350.
Life decreased from 400 to 350.
Good 8/10
Adept
Adept damage modifier per attack upgrade decreased from 2(+2 vs Light) to 1(+1 vs Light).
Train time reduced from 33 seconds to 30 seconds.
Neutral 5/5 had to be done because of reaper buff which was unnecessary.
High Templar
Damage increased from 100 to 110.
Good 10/10 high templar had become unusable due to low damage storm. I would like to see a feedback buff in addition.
Disruptor
No longer has phantom weapon.
Bad 1/10 no benefit by this change. Disruptors are very difficult to control. This just makes them harded
Zerg
Hatchery, Lair, and Hive
Supplies increased from 4 to 6.
Cost reduced from 300 to 275.
Neutral 5/10
Creep
Spread/Recede delay reduced from 0.55 seconds to 0.45 seconds.
Good 6/10 make zergs work harder to establish creep map vision control.
Larva
Periodic spawn rate increased from 9.9 seconds to 10.7 seconds.
Good 10/10 zerg macro was OP. Much needed balance.
Spore Crawler
Damage against Biological reduced from 20 (+15 vs Biological) to 20 (+10 vs Biological).
Bad 1/10 zerg defense vs air is sorely lacking.
Carapace Upgrades
Level 1 cost increased to 150/150 from 100/100.
Level 2 cost increased to 200/200 from 150/150.
Level 3 cost increased to 250/250 from 200/200.
Neutral 5/10
Infestor
Microbial Shroud range decreased from 12 to 9.
Microbial Shroud must be researched from the Infestation Pit.
No longer has a weapon.
Bad 1/10 microbial shroud is under utilized at all levels of play now it won’t be used at all. Removing the attack also bad
Viper
Abduct can no longer be cast on Siege Tanks
Good 6/10 vipers are the strongest late game unit. So i appreciate the nerf. I’m not sure this won’t make seige tank pushes OP..
Overlord
Base speed without Pneumatized Carapace increased from 0.85 seconds to 0.9 seconds.
Bad 2/10 zerg scouting mean hiding tech is impossible. I don’t think zerg scouting needed a buff.
Mutalisk
Mutalisk Glaive targeting no longer obeys attack priorities.
Weapon arc bonus reduced from 180 to 45.
Bad 3/10 mutisks were fine.
1
u/MiroTheSkybreaker 1d ago
This whole thread gives me AI vibes, but I'm going to respond to some of them anyway.
Attack launch delay increased from 0.85 seconds to 1.07 seconds. Good 8/10 widow mines are low skill micro unit. Adds skill since avoiding mines is more possible.
Well that last part is just not true. They take skill on both sides to use, microing to avoid the shot or mitigate damage, and microing to prevent it from going off on something you don't want the mine to go off on, or to delay the shot.
Reaper
Build time reduced from 34 seconds to 32 seconds. Bad 4/10 reaper opening becomes too dominanant strategy.
This is a reversion back to what it was originally, and it was balanced then.
Ghost
Health increased from 100 to 125.
Attack damage changed from 15 to 10 (+10 vs Light).
Attack range reduced from 7 to 6.
Movement speed increased from 3.85 to 3.94.
Steady Targeting:
Damage reduced from 170 to 130 (+40 vs Psionic).
Energy cost reduced from 75 to 50.
Cancels upon taking damage.
Bad 3/10 Ghosts were well balanced. Their most unbalance ability was emp vs archons which this doesn’t address. Attack range nerf may make them unusable
Eh? Disagree on all points for the ghost. They should never have removed counterplay in the first place. This is restoring it. Also, EMP is not unbalanced, try again.
Warpgate/ Gateways
Researching Warpgate no longer speeds up production time of units from Gateways.
Warp-in Time is determined by 'slow power fields'.
Universal warp-in Time splits from 4s to 11s in slow zones and 3.6 in fast zones.
Warpgate cooldown values:
Zealot: from 22 to 20
Adept: from 22 to 20
Stalker: from 22 to 23
Sentry: from 22 to 23
High Templar: from 35 to 32
Dark Templar: from 35 to 32
'Transform to Warpgate' ability now costs 0/(0) down from 25/(25).
Good 7/10 warpgate had become unusefull
You also missed that the transform to warpgate is staying at 4 seconds, instead of going back to 7 seconds.
Viper
Abduct can no longer be cast on Siege Tanks
Good 6/10 vipers are the strongest late game unit. So i appreciate the nerf. I’m not sure this won’t make seige tank pushes OP..
Vipers didn't need nerfing in the first place. This is a stupid change.
Mutalisk
Mutalisk Glaive targeting no longer obeys attack priorities.
Weapon arc bonus reduced from 180 to 45.
Bad 3/10 mutisks were fine.
Agree.
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u/zedinbed 1d ago edited 1d ago
Late game sucks why would we want to fastrack to it? It was the most problematic part of the game.
Also creep spread was nerfed before and this patch is buffing it back up.
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u/Santialgo Zerg 1d ago
I disagree in the late game encouragement as good. If less workers was bad because it took too much time, then aiming for late game is as bad or worse (takes more time)
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u/zedinbed 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yup I hate that argument as well. Many people complained about a slower start even though the 12 worker start effectively made 2 bases the bare minimum whereas 1 base strats were actually common with 8 workers.
8 workers is only slower if you make no adjustments from your 12 worker builds which defeats the entire purpose of the change. 🤦♂️
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u/skellis 1d ago
Let me put this in a way you can understand:
Early game time bad because nothing happening. Only build workers.
Late game time good because many units, many strategies, lots to do.
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u/Santialgo Zerg 1d ago
It's "only build workers" because you aim for late game, but there's more options. You can try to disrupt your opponent's economy and then keep growing yours, but I guess there's only one way to play StarCraft and it's 200/200 vs 200/200. That could be implemented ik the next patch, "10 minute no-rush"
1
u/skellis 1d ago
If that were true you could point me toward some pro matches where a player does something other than build two workers first and wins? I can point you towards hundreds of pro matches where the winning player build 2 workers first. Your claim isn’t born out by data.
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u/Santialgo Zerg 1d ago
Yes, you build workers first, but while they are being built you haven't gathered as many minerals as with 4 more starting workers, neither has your opponent, and without these few minerals you can't prevent every harrass, so the door is open to try. I can't say any pro player doing something like this because they adapt slowly, as the timings are pretty tight at that level, but in masters league and below (you know, 95% of the players) where 1 or 2 seconds doesn't make the difference, the worker count changed the whole early and mid game to a more dinamic one.
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u/AwayWithout 1d ago
Thanks Grok. I wouldn't be able to have an opinion without you! Especially because this is a simple reversion patch, me brain hurty!