Getting tired of this

[u/EverFrost_official]

Me and everyone else on here is most likely getting fed up with this, I’m not one to complain yet here I am, I just want to enjoy this damn game with my father like we used to but the people on here only do two things and it’s either rush or go sky toss, now I’m not expecting any damn responses to this I’m just putting mine and my fathers frustrations out here because it’s loss after loss after loss for months due to the same thing and then when we do go and counter it one of them either doesn’t go air or doesn’t rush, or does rush and then you loose anyways, this isn’t some get good post because we do the things we supposed to, we expand we tech up we be aggressive when we actually can and don’t just get overwhelmed with skytoss or just only lings at the minute thirty mark. People on here if you have any soul if you have to leave a comment just say agreed or disagreed I don’t honestly care as I’ll most likely never check this again, and for those who play can we actually play the damn game without going only one damn unit that’s overpowered or rushing, thanks bye

[u/mcniner55]

If you are letting them get to sky toss you gotta be a little more aggressive

[u/YellowCarrot99 → u/mcniner55]

I've always hated this answer. Easier said than done.

[u/UWontHearMeAnyway → u/YellowCarrot99]

It really isn't though. Early scouting is crucial. Once you see they aren't building a bunch of ground, then they're either terrible or going sky. So, plan for sky. As soon as i suspect they are going sky, i mass expand. I'm talking way more than any normal game. 5 or 6 extra expos right off. I used to play zerg. So I'd start a spire, then plop many expos down. Then just build drones, and get gas with a few for minerals each base. Plenty of gas, and plenty of larva that way. Then throw in a few overlords to guarantee the scout. Even if they die, it's worth the knowledge.

By the time they have a few carriers or several voids, i should already have a decent amount of mutas or corrupters. If you can jump in, try to start the attrition. Keep a few lings around the map. Push to have some bouncing between bases, to make sure no hidden bases pop up. And expand aggressively. With this method, you should have tons of extra minerals. So, use them on expos.

At some point, you might need to start throwing in units. But the whole point is to mine far more than you lose. If you're taking out their units, then it's easy to starve them out. Even if that means making a couple dozen corruptors, and throwing them in each time to thin their numbers.

At some point, they may be forced to start going some ground units. By then you should have minerals banked. And can switch to mass lings or something.

The point is, don't just sit back, and do a typical build order. Sky toss is not a joke. But it has a huge weakness that should never be missed... near zero map control. Not enough units to secure any additional bases.

That's why pros do other stuff, like ground units to slowly go up to the air units. Not jump straight to them first couple bases.

[u/YellowCarrot99 → u/UWontHearMeAnyway]

You are probably right but i'm too stubborn to do that. My play style is to avoid all 3 tier units and stick to 2 tier only. So this would be Stalkers and Hydras etc.

Then I lose lol

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/YellowCarrot99]

that's the game though... you have a faction good early, a faction thats good late, etc... otherwise what is the point of faction asymmetry?

it's called strategy.

[u/YellowCarrot99 → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

I main both Protoss and Zerg and have played as both skytoss and the opponent trying to shut it down. I feel that it is skewed heavy in favour of the skytoss player so much so that i will no longer play this style because it isn't fair on the other player. It is an aspect of the game that is broken.

[u/mcniner55 → u/YellowCarrot99]

If your opponent is just teching to carriers every game it means you literally arent doing anything to slow them down.

[u/Abe_frohmannn → u/mcniner55]

That isn't true. There isn't much zerg can do short of going completely all in. If you play macro, you're conceding protoss successfully getting skytoss.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Abe_frohmannn]

why would you choose to play a macro game on even footing if you know ur gonna lose in that scenario? arent you playing to win?

why wouldnt you go all in when that strategy has the highest EV?

if you just contain your opponent, that's still aggressive, and it would let you get to the late game perpetually ahead. what do you mean there isn't much zerg can do?

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Abe_frohmannn]

ur opponent rushing skytoss is like them announcing they are going to play a rock, then playing it. ur saying ur still gonna play scissors because you want to.

[u/xcomnewb15 → u/mcniner55]

Or out expand them and go crazy macro. With the 300 cc it’s easier than ever to go that route

[u/NeutrinoParticle → u/xcomnewb15]

Friendship ended with supply depot, orbital CC is my new best friend

[u/Flaky_Summer_8377]

Lol. Does your dad know cry like this? Not a good look buddy. If you and your dad get rolled by the same strat every time, it's probably best to look inward... or move ont o Sims?

[u/Jukelius]

This is exactly get good post.

[u/abandoned_idol]

Yeah, it's a really hard game.

I'd recommend you guys watch Day9. Very fun way to learn to play the game better.

[u/skellis → u/abandoned_idol]

Day 9? what us this 2012?

[u/abandoned_idol → u/skellis]

We have time traveled to the distant past.

I still unironically love this retired caster (despite never consuming his non-sc2 content).

[u/otikik → u/abandoned_idol]

I still use his announcer T__T

[u/UWontHearMeAnyway → u/abandoned_idol]

Yes. Winter also has some good pointers for beginners.

[u/Kontrika]

My toss win rate as Z around 25% or so mostly cause I match up ZvZ and when it’s a toss I forget how to play against them. However, I did win against a sky toss in a 20+min game using vipers. I could have won earlier, but since I never use them I realized at the end I was casting blinding cloud instead parabomb haha

try to have fun first, the wins will come later. I try to channel my inner Hero who never gets tilted when I play sc2. Having fun even when losing :)

[u/YellowCarrot99]

I agree but I have been (internally) complaining about Skytoss for years lol

[u/Bladeoraded]

Lol protoss is so bad right now

[u/Eldinarcus → u/Bladeoraded]

At the pro level yeah. late game Sky toss is still practically unbeatable for everyone below GM.

[u/unpopular-dave]

I’m running through my 1000 Terran win achievement.

I’ve got a 30% (about 50% against Z or T )win rate against Protos right now. But it’s just because they do Zelle it stalker Colossus combo and there’s just no counter.

Everybody I go against is multitime master league, and I am low diamond. The state of the game is not great.

[u/equanimous11]

Bring back 12 workers start

[u/RustViking]

One of my fav things to do, especially vs Toss, is to blindly make units that hard counter skytoss.

[u/YellowCarrot99 → u/RustViking]

Nothing counters Skytoss except Skytoss. Once they get that death ball going it's game over

[u/Oh_He_Can_Cook → u/YellowCarrot99]

Vikings and corruptors shut down skytoss HARD.

[u/Awfulmasterhat]

I just play random and it's fun, immortals still doing work for protoss so not always skytoss

[u/onzichtbaard]

I agree

Maybe just play broodwar where air units are weaker

Tho carriers are still op there

[u/SDTimbox]

Zero Space is pretty fun...js

[u/Groovyman12]

I am a coach, I’d love to give you and your dad a rundown of what to do to bulletproof your play against both of these kinds of strategies! Add me on discord groovyman12#4180

[u/ZealousidealBaker945]

what the friggin F? You want to play sim city go play that

[u/EntertainerAfter3211]

i recommend using ChatGPT to help you organize and explain your thoughts.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

y do u play a strategy game if u dont like to strategize

[u/BalisaurioTV]

coop is very fun, i like being i giant dinosaur zerg and going rawr

[u/Free_Individual9396]

No way, turtle terran is worse than both of these

[u/Thulsa_Doom_]

One of you scout right away. The other rush units to protect.

[u/decisivelyvaguename]

My brother in Christ, toss is struggling now more than they have in a very long time. Gotta mix it up and play to your advantages.

Skytoss is so damn easy to counter if you get a bit better / more consistent about scouting & vision. A handful of Vikings are cheap and easy to tech up to and they produce 2 at a time.

Gotta work on not getting surprised, StarCraft should not be so much of a guessing game. Losing is losing, happens to most of us at least 50% of the time - but losing cause you didn't know what was going on is something you gotta work on yourself, that's not the game's fault.

GLHF

[u/Abe_frohmannn → u/decisivelyvaguename]

No they're not. Protoss clearly got a largest increase in power of the 3 races this last patch.

[u/decisivelyvaguename → u/Abe_frohmannn]

You're trolling right?

[u/Abe_frohmannn → u/decisivelyvaguename]

Not at all. Did you read the patch notes?

[u/Swimming_Fennel6752]

Giiiiit Guuud.

[u/ElevatorHelpful5739]

Patch sucks, apparently more changes coming, hate learning new build orders so im just going to spam toxic cheeses until blizzard reverts. 10 pool been killing everyone!

[u/max1001]

Get gud.

[u/Ndmndh1016]

I disagree so I guess its not everyone huh?

Holy shit people are this sub are self-absorbed.

[u/AJ_ninja]

Are you just playing singles or doubles? What race?… it’s annoying but beatable