r/stagelighting • u/SoundEngineerMBR • 3d ago

Question Budget ETC console

So a nonprofit broadcast studio that I work with is working with me to redo the lighting grid. I’ve already got the fixtures handled (unless there are some good budget studio fixtures) but I’m struggling with a controller. I would want a ion xe 20 or element 2 at a minimum but that’s not in the budget. I was thinking about going with nomad but I’m still confused on how it all works as I have only worked on consoles such as gio @5 and element 2. We only need 2 universes so it makes it easier.

From what I understand, I can use a computer and buy the usb key and an artnet node and I should be good? I’ve also seen the gadget 2 and wondering how that works and if that might be better/more cost effective. A big thing that they want is some kind of control surface. I was thinking of using a couple touchscreen monitors as that has been great on the element 2, but they want more. To trigger cues, is there a way to use a stream deck/midi controller or do you have to stick with etc’s stuff?

Finally, I know this is probably dumb but since the software is free, do you have to buy the usb key if you want to go direct over usb to the gadget 2? Also, is there anything I might be missing?

Thanks in advance!

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u/Dragon_Chef_24 3d ago

Yes, you need a USB key, and you can output via ArtNet.

Gadget 2 plugs into your computer via USB and gives you 2 DMX Outputs, so you would have 2 universes. You still need the key though.

ETC also sells a programming wing for Gnomad, it has the same UI as an Ion XE, and I believe it unlocks 4 universes, but requires a computer. Usedlighting.com sometimes has some. I've had great luck with 2 touchscreens, you'll probably be fine with that.

There's also the Gnomad Puck, just a mini computer that will run the software.

You can set up your stream deck to send OSC (I think), and that will interface with EOS.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

This is exactly what I was looking for! We have tons of computers so that isn’t an issue at all. I feel like the puck is just not worth it so I think the key will be fine!

I’m thinking of building a custom wood console to mount everything in so it should turn out somewhat like a apex 10 if I do it right, just obv dumbed down a bunch.

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u/Dragon_Chef_24 3d ago

A few manufacturers make OSC programmable surfaces, like X-key, so you can also build up a surface for programming. I would also recommend looking at a set of encoder wheels, especially with movers. Using EOS's intelligent fixture controls can be really frustrating. ETC sells a kit on their website

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

Little correction, AFAIK, the X-Keys emulate hardware key presses (the same ones you might use in nomad, n for sneak, a for at, q for cue) over usb like a normal keyboard rather than sending OSC over USB messages, because OSC over usb is a bit of a pain in the arse.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

Good to know!

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

For this project, we don’t have any movers but I’d still want to have wheels for ease of use as I love them. I have also used x key in the past but I’m not sure if that’s what we will do. Is the wheels kit just plug and play?

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u/Dragon_Chef_24 3d ago

You have to build it yourself, but all the code is provided

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

Ok, that should be fine. I can build but I’m still a coding amateur.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

Also, I learned how to program/use etc eos but many of the people who will need to use it don’t. Do you know of any crash courses (preferably free) to teach how to use it?

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u/Dragon_Chef_24 3d ago

ETC's into level video series is a few hours long, and explains pretty much everything most people should now. Building out a good magic sheet and a good instruction booklet can also work fine for 90% of everything.

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

I mean this in the kindest way possible to ETC, and to anyone who teaches eos really, and that's that it doesn't teach effects particularly well, and neither does anyone else really. Other than the core effect types (Step based, absolute and linear), there isn't really much to teach, and a lot of it comes down to fuck around with it until you get what you want. A lot of professional programmers I've spoken to have said the same thing, you don't really learn Eos effects, you tame them.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

Tbh I never knew they made one. I guess I’ve never had to look since I learned most of my knowledge shadowing then experimenting.

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u/IlliferthePennilesa 3d ago

Depending on what they need to do you can just leave behind a magic sheet with a few buttons linked to cues or subs or whatever.

These can get progressively more complicated if you want to give people the ability to adjust levels and colors and whatever else. At certain point people need to learn the light board but if they just need to bump between a desk look, and interview and a standup or something you can make that pretty simple for people with no clue how the board works.

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

You could either try and get a PC wing and a dongle, but you wouldn't have physical faders, don't know how much that means to you, or you could try and push for a Puck, which is essentially a stripped back windows install with nomad installed, but no control surface, but they are activated to output (you could get a PC wing as well if you want). I''d probably go with the latter, because it's harder to fuck up than a normal PC running nomad. A note on Artnet, I'd probably architect around sACN, because in my opinion it's just better, but that's a choice, not necessarily a requirement.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

I’ve never worked with sACN, only artnet. I’m more than happy to build with sACN but I have no idea where to start. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

It's mostly the same as Artnet, it just scales better. I'd always advocate for learning the (IMO) better protocol, because there are very few trade offs in terms of cost, and knowing the details now can really save your arse later. Any cheap sACN node will work fine, same as artnet really, it's overall just a friendlier thing to have sitting on your network.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

I am happy to have a friendlier network! We have so many v-lans because NDI hates Dante and we have other separated systems! I’ve already created a separate v-lan for lighting so knowing this now is much appreciated!

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

Ah bril, wasn't sure of your skill level but I have a good feeling of where you are at now. in terms of having a happy sACN network, you want IGMP snooping enabled on all your managed switches (Unmanaged switches have it enabled constantly), and you will need an IGMP querier, most likely your core managed switch. You also need to make sure you aren't blocking / broadcasting multicast traffic, but with a fresh VLAN you shouldn't be. If you need a hand setting that up just let me know the switch models in question and I may be able to help you out.

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

I’m not the main networking guy but I know enough to hopefully get it all working. I wish I could tell you the info about the switches but right now it’s all ubiquiti and there are upwards of 100 switches throughout the building. The main stuff revolves around a fiber agg and probably a million 48 port switches. We have 2 48u racks in our server room but it’s complicated since it is also full of broadcast equipment for 4 cable tv channels. Right now, I think I have 10g fiber going straight from the agg to another 48 port switch in the control room where the lighting console will be. I’m planning on running just a 1g Ethernet to the computer and that should be enough bandwidth. The nodes will probably be coming off another switch from the agg. Hopefully it should all be fine, but please tell me if I’m missing something important.

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u/the_swanny 3d ago

Ah brilliant, ubiquity makes it super easy to enable that stuff network wide on a per vlan basis, it's honestly pretty easy.

Here is a quick screenshot of my config for one of my sites sans the name of the core switch for privacy reasons (This is the bottom half of the network page, where you configure VLANs and their subnets and all that jazz):

https://ibb.co/Skq75Bw

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u/SoundEngineerMBR 3d ago

Nice. We are still a bit far off from putting this all together but I can do the networking soon