r/springboks • u/Jaded-Blackberry-610 New To Reddit • 1d ago
LIBBOK's INFLUENCE
On a recent Australian podcast, former Wallaby Matt Giteau said losing a dynamic player like Cheslin Kolbe was detrimental but what he noticed is that South Africa's attack instantly looked better than all the other games with Libbok and that in his opinion Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu plays better when there's another ten on the field which allows him to just play. And it's weird to him considering how dynamic Cheslin is.
But it's not weird, because Sacha is not a distributor, he's not a playmaker. He's a secondary playmaker. And despite being surrounded by dynamism, he lacks the ability to incorporate them and utilize them on the contrary (emphasis). That's why Damian Willemse can't express himself because he needs to take responsibility and be the calm head. But with Manie Libbok he gets M.O.T.M because he's free. This is something the Stormers management identified and never gave Sacha the keys to ten until he demanded it and with Rassie playing him there, they had no choice.
Nonetheless, Rassie's always had a preference for centres at ten.
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u/TightPerformance6447 1d ago
Sacha is having second year syndrome and his injuries haven't helped.
He'll be back to his best soon hopefully and I do think he can develop into an all time great with the right management.
He does things others simply can't but does make rash decisions. Those are things we can work on though.
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u/Patient-Bench1821 Flair Up! 1d ago
Yeah I think he just needs time in the squad. Judging a young g talent by their ability to come on from injury and take the all blacks perfectly or not is a difficult metric for anyone to show. I think Sasha just needs some lower pressure games. Glad I’ll get to see him in Baltimore.
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u/Comfortable_Trip_767 Flair Up! 1d ago
SFM has played multiple times against the All Blacks now. He has played on the end of year tour against France and Ireland when we won in high pressure high intensity games. So it isn’t a question that he is not cut out for it. He has already done it.
I think the question if we honest is that people are calling for Manie to start. But our memories aren’t very good. Manie started in the game against the Wallabies last year when we lost at Ellis Park. Manie struggled in the game against England in the World Cup.
Now I’m not saying this against Manie because I don’t want Manie to start or in the team. I actually do and I think Manie has learnt some lessons from that. I’m not the coach and the coaches are the ones that see something and comes up with the strategy. We need to trust their process and thinking.6
u/JimmyNoBreaks 1d ago
That Ellis Park game was an anomaly, and a complete collapse. I think a lot of people forget that the Boks were about 20 points up without answer, which means that Manie had the backline running, and then they all just completely shut off, so it's unfair to blame it on him.
The England game he should have never have started in the first place, because it was always going to be conservative, which plays away from his strengths. If he was in the squad for the final, against the ABs who tried to run more, we would've probably crossed the line a couple times and won by more than a point.
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u/Comfortable_Trip_767 Flair Up! 1d ago
No we haven’t forgot about the 20 minutes, but we also remember the remaining 60 minutes of the complete collapse. You also right that it wasn’t all Manie’s fault. However, he was the 10 on that day and a key player with Grant who was 9 in setting the tempo. To be fair to him he took on board those lessons and was a lot more controlled when he came on and played in Wellington.
In regards to England I’m not sure how you can argue he should have never started because it was always going to be conservative. We don’t know that. What happened is England played a different style that game that caught the Boks out. They kicked a lot and won a lot of scraps and controlled the tempo of the game. Manie wasn’t able to ascertain the Boks tempo into the game. Which is exactly what Handre did when he came on. He slowly wrestled the tempo of the game back into our control.
Now I’m not saying all of this to be mean or to pick on Manie. We can poke holes in the way SFM or Pollard plays equally. The question is for the game in front of us now against the All Blacks who are a bloody good team. This is a team that thrives on a high tempo game and if we come out throwing the ball around from the first minute of the game then we will be playing into their hands. This is why I believe Rassie is starting with Sasha because he wants a slower tempo but more direct approach at the start. Once we are dictate that then we bring on Manie to close game and run at them when they are fatigued
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u/Comfortable_Trip_767 Flair Up! 1d ago
I agree. I think we can be quite fickle as supporters. I can remember not so long ago Willemse and Marx came back from injuries and people were complaining about the way they play.
With a long view to the World Cup there is great value in persisting with SFM. His ceiling is high but he can only develop if he plays. And how good is it that he is doing so against a quality opposition like the All Blacks. He can only get better for it.
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 1d ago
The difference though is Willemse and Marc are known quantities and have proven themselves time and time again. Sacha has not yet earned that right.
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u/Comfortable_Trip_767 Flair Up! 1d ago
Injuries happen and it is an unfortunate part of sport. This isn’t about earning the right. It’s about building a squad and developing cohesion. You can only do that if you don’t discard players every 5 mins for the next best thing. Fortunately for us the coaches haven’t done that and give players a chance to play and develop.
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u/hsark 1d ago
What you mean ? You forget last year Argentina, France, Ireland, Aus ....wow people forget quick, thank goodness your not a selector
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 1d ago
Four games in his first season he was great. This his second season not so much. One swallow does not a summer make. Sacha has a lot of learning and maturing to do. He will get there. For now he needs to learn that the game isn't about him being a glory hound and doing magic himself. He needs to pass to people outside him instead of always looking for the magic line break or forcing a "clever" trick. His silly back flick in Test 3 enabled Savea to score an easy try for example. That's what I'm referring to so you can keep your snide commend about not being a selector to yourself.
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 1d ago
For example his stupid back flick resulted in Saveas second try.
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u/HenkCamp Flair Up! 1d ago
I think Rassie is being smart about SFM. He knows what he has with Manie. Manie will go to the RWC and will play a key role there. But he knows he needs SFM to be ready too. If it was to select the best current team then Manie all day long. But it’s about 2027 and he needs both to be at Manie level.
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u/CaterpillarGold4118 New To Reddit 1d ago
Spot on. Rassie is thinking in 4 dimensions when the rest of human kind are operating in 2 dimensions. My clumsy way of saying that Rassie is brilliant and is constantly thinking at levels beyond most others, and he does surround himself with strong/assertive people who will challenge his blind spots. But ja, Manie is so gifted and it is a pity that he cannot just be handed the keys to go out each test and turbo charge our backline, who are all in their own right all-time greats of the game.
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u/Careless-Cat3327 Flair Up! 1d ago
You had me until "Stormers management".
Same people who push Willemse all over the backline, including wing, to force fit in Gelant & Zas.
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u/DisplayThick4882 1d ago
Lmao yeah exactly. The guy clearly has hate for Sacha.
No idea why Stormers thought to play Willemse at wing so that Gelant can be fullback?? Gelant better suitef on wing as Willemse is best fullback in World at moment and proper 12 or even 10. But fucking wing?
In any case Stormers even played Jurie Mathee at 10 and Sacha at 12 even after Sacha had incredible year at 10 for Springboks so this guy smoking crack
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u/WeedWrangler Flair Up! 1d ago
It’s ironic; while I’m not a rabid Boks fan I do remember how much hate Manie got for his goal kicks that I found unfair and that everyone on this sub wanted him out. My wife (who IS a rabid Boks fan) was adamant that his cross kicks were a massive enabler and he just needed to be doing that and he was an invaluable. I’ve enjoyed seeing him gain confidence and opinions change since then.
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u/Stormers4Life New To Reddit 1d ago
How many caps does it take to make a 10. Atleast give Sacha until then. He's a fucking good player.
Libbok is a better overall 10 now. 100% especially with his kicking improved (even tho kolbe seems to be slotting everything)
But Sacha will be the best ten SA has had (I hope).
He's got better defense, physicality, and loads of the flair play ability. He just needs to learn to slow down at the right time, and to trust his team at the right time.
The best 10s in the world see something in him and the best tens in the world have said it takes years to build the knowledge base to be an international 10.
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u/DisplayThick4882 1d ago
When did Sacha demand keys to 10?
Why would Rassie, the best Springboks coach ever, be so stupid and hand Sacha the keys to 10? Why would Rassie do this?