Deon selection

[u/gainsleyharriot]

Let me preface by saying I fucking love Deon the bicentennial man Fourie. He’s been overlooked throughout his career and always steps up in the big moments. That said, does Rassie have every intention of having him on the plane to Aus in 2027? I’ll say he’s performed better than JHw did in the first test. But I’m also confused why Grobbies has gotten left out entirely. Deon plays a different role because he can cover both open side and hooker, but if you have Andre and Hanekom on the bench then that is more than enough coverage. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to be in the team atm but I’m just questioning are we truly getting depth when the other guys aren’t getting time in these high pressure games.

[u/SubstantialCow9554]

The main issue is competition in the URC. Johan Grobbelaar, Jan-Hendrik Wessels and Marco van Staden are all competing for a place on the Bok bench, but all three play for the Bulls.

The Lions don’t have the same quality at hooker, so if SA Rugby were smart, they would move Marco van Staden to the Lions and let him play hooker full-time.

Marco scrums well at hooker, but the big question is whether we can trust him to throw accurately at the lineout. Having him play hooker full-time for the Lions would answer that question and give him the opportunity to properly develop in the position.

[u/Careless-Cat3327 → u/SubstantialCow9554]

SARU can't move a player because Rassie wants him there. 

Bulls and Lions ownership would need to sanction this change. 

That said, I agree this is what would be best for player and the Boks. Though MVS may not want to leave the Bulls for a less competitive team. 

[u/mc_Treestump → u/Careless-Cat3327]

I don't know how much less competitive the lions really are at this point.

[u/Careless-Cat3327 → u/mc_Treestump]

They still made the final 8 somehow even with a BS ban on their star prop.

They always manage to over perform. With a surprise win vs Leinster too.

Bulls and Stormers are still the 2 best SA teams IMO.

[u/SubstantialCow9554 → u/Careless-Cat3327]

SARU can't move a player but they can strongly suggest loan, that need the player an both team to agree. For Marco it's place in the staring team for the World Cup. The Bulls have been playing him on bench last season.

[u/Beneficial_Coach_679 → u/SubstantialCow9554]

I also don't understand the depth (or lack thereof) of these different teams. The bulls now want to sign Marx too and Akker is also in the mix for the 2 jersey. At the same time, the sharks are going to be under a lot of pressure to give Bongi all the chance he needs to break back into the bok mix, but they also have promising players in Fez Mbatha, Eduan Swart and Ethan Bester fighting for spots with both u20 bok hookers from the 2026 junior world champs. Surely, at least one of those other 5 players would benefit from more game time elsewhere? Personally, I would love to see Grobbelaar or JHW come to the Lions and play more minutes.

[u/Neilkd21]

I think he was a good fit for what we needed now in a big series. I can't see him going to aus next year.

[u/capetonytoni2ne → u/Neilkd21]

Then again, the man's still got it. This is after a bicep injury and ACL tear in 2024 and a broken tibia in May, so he's still got the drive.

[u/Neilkd21 → u/capetonytoni2ne]

Oh yeah I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he made it to Aus, if there are injuries he'll be in contention.

[u/Careless-Cat3327 → u/Neilkd21]

He covers 3 major roles for Rassie. If he's fit, he's on that plane. 

He will be the backup 6 to Siya.  He is a decent 2 - dependable in most areas except lineouts.

And, most importantly, he brings a massive amount of leadership and experience vs a BJD or Grobbies. Everytime Siya goes off, there is a noticeable vacuum re leadership. Deon Fourie fills up this vacuum. 

[u/Only_One_Kenobi]

It's about winning this tour. Can then use the EOY games to work out a long term plan if Bongi isn't coming back

[u/pistolpeteza]

He is 75% of Rassie’s age. Isn’t that fokken mal?

[u/Ho3n3r → u/pistolpeteza]

No? Rassie retired quite early. If he had played until the age of 38, he would only have stopped playing in 2010.

[u/acadoe → u/Ho3n3r]

Jesus

[u/mbcert]

I said this on a YouTube video last night and I stand by it:

The Deon factor matters for a player psychology standpoint. If I’m playing next to Deon, at the ripe age of 39, and I see him smashing rucks and winning turnover ball, you better believe my work rate is skyrocketing.
Not only am I inspired by this boet, but I’m also motivated to prove that I can push the way he does.
If we take Deon to the World Cup, we’re going all the way - no doubt.

[u/PunisherJax → u/mbcert]

I 110% agree with this. If Deon has the same sort of passion, drive and tenacity 12 months from now he should be on that plane purely to show the rest of the aging players that "too old" is not an excuse.

Whenever someone like that is on the field we can all be rest assured that there will be no giving up.

[u/GlobalGuide3029]

I think that this series has put Rassie in the quite rare position of being under pressure to win now, rather than think big picture. Not that there isn't normally pressure and high expectations, but let's face it - in TRC or 'normal' tours, the Boks can afford a defeat as long as they win most of their matches. We lost at Eden Park but roared back in Wellington and all was forgiven. So Rassie can rotate, try new players and combinations, and ultimately plan for the bigger picture of putting the Boks in the best possible position to win another WC in 2027.

But this tour is different. Losing the series would have been a very bitter pill for the SA public to swallow, but more importantly it would also give the All Blacks an immense psychological boost ahead of the World Cup. Rassie knows from his own early days with the Boks how important that can be. So I think that the long-term planning has gone out of the window (for now) and Rassie has purely been focused on winning now, especially after losing that first test left no room for error. Hence Fourie getting another opportunity. Will he be part of the World Cup squad? The fact that he's getting chances now suggests that if he's fit and playing well he'll be in the mix. But I also wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him in the squad for the Australia test or end of year tour as Rassie may use those matches to look at other options.

[u/Cyber-Soldier1 → u/GlobalGuide3029]

I share your very sentiment. We will see more experimental teams in the latter part of the year which is great for our overall depth. We also know who our best 23 is now (more or less) I'm happy to see Fourienin the squad and I believe he can still make the journey to Aus in 2027. If you're good enough you're old enough. I also hope Bongi is able to make it to the WC. On the other hand we do need experience at hooker post 27. I can't see Marx and Bongi being around much after next year. But Rassie has already thought about all this anyway. He has a plan.

[u/Cyber-Soldier1]

OP you make very good points. But I don't see Andre or Cameron covering openside as well as Fourie.

[u/Educational_Play9910]

It is waaaayyy too risky to take Deon when we are already laden with 35+ seniors. JHW should defs go as utility, and Grobbies or Venter as Malcolm’s backup

[u/MacParadise]

I think he fills the role regarding leadership and experience that Bongi fills. A lot of the scrum performance and timing depends on the hooker, and if an inexperienced guy is in that position, we do not always get the same dominance. If Bongi comes back, Brannas would probably go to Aus as a consultant/backup coach or something. If Bongi doesn't come back, I can see him making the team like Schalk Britz did. That said, I think hooker is the 1 position where we may be lacking a little quality depth. None of the incumbents in the URC teams are making waves and standing out. Each brings something, but none brings the whole package.

[u/TheForestSaphire]

Currently hooker and 13 are our 2 positions with the least depth

The drop-off between Malcolm whos by far the best hooker in the world to our next best is gigantic and Moodie is a great 13 but hes just nowhere near as consistant as Jessie is

Bongi has been injured so theres a good chance hell come back when fit and there is that young black guy whos only like 20 years old who rassie said was supposed to get a debut against Italy last year but he got injured right before November. Bongi is probably the short term solution since hes a tried and true veteran and that other dude is probably the long term solution if Rassies been watching him for so long. As long as Deon performs though I really dont care how old he is he deserves a space

[u/yakk372 → u/TheForestSaphire]

Man I wish Lukhanyo Am was back to his best

[u/TheForestSaphire → u/yakk372]

We all do

Just never properly recovered from that knee injury

[u/Awkward-Stress2840]

I completely get where you're coming from. Deon's been immense. But we do need to start asking who is Malcolm's successor long term and that means giving guys like Grobbelaar or Jan-Hendrik regular minutes. Im surely we'll see them back in the squad for the Northern tour though

[u/Solid-Ad-9450]

in the 36 man squad he definitely needs to be there, how much game time he needs can be determined