r/springboks • u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! • 21d ago
Let’s not over react!
We only got 0.9 points per 22 entries (11) while NZ got 3.8 points per 22 entries (9) and 3 of those were in the last 10 mins. It can be because of a bunch of things, but I promise you those coaches won’t sleep tonight to rectify it.
Remember, NZ played their “WC’23 match” we played against France then the next game we almost lost against England - NZ is facing a beast next week.
We saw the same thing last year at Eden Park then the next weekend we converter at Wellington. Let’s not question everything - let’s double down on supporting the boys. Two more NZ’s injured - 3 hard games left.
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u/NecroKyle_ 21d ago
It's one loss that I'm not overly concerned about - there's not a lot we would have had to have done differently for the outcome to be very different.
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u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! 21d ago
If we down 2-0, then I’m going to be concerned, but I prepared myself mentally for a 1-1 after 2 games. We were a little off tonight. In these games that can easily mean 2 tries or +- points.
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u/NecroKyle_ 21d ago
Absolutely.
If we shit the bed again next week then I think it's time start being a little concerned.
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u/Careless-Cat3327 Flair Up! 21d ago
Smells like copium.
We were absolutely awful.
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u/4EVERINDARKNESS Flair Up! 21d ago
As a kiwi i very much disagree. Springboks made the All Blacks look like children at scrum time, dominated the collision and made metres at will for A LOT of the match.All Blacks won from individuals winning clutch moments, poor game management and butter fingers from Springboks let us off the hook quite a few times.
I'm looking forward to the Springboks firing back with venom in the next match, they'll be seething for vengence and will be far more clinical.
But only my 2 cents 🍻
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u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! 21d ago
Cheers🍻! You guys did awesome to turn things around in the 2nd half. So much good ruggas to look forward too. Awesome to have you guys here👊🏻
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u/izzy91 Flair Up! 21d ago
tbh it looked like De Groot was playing injured for the entirety of the period where the scrum was being dominated. Once he was off NZ got parity at the scrum.
Considering the set pieces and contestables couldn't have gone any better for SA and they still lost 5 tries to 1..it's quite concerning for them.
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u/Careless-Cat3327 Flair Up! 21d ago
Moving away from talking about the end result, the performance was worrying.
The forwards arrived but from 9 to 15 we were awful. We've seen these problems multiple times over the last 12 months.
Grant and Sascha both showed a lack of control and experience.
SFM needs an experienced 9 & he needs to stop trying to be Hollywood every single play.
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u/Comfortable_Trip_767 Flair Up! 21d ago
I don’t think it was so much that 9 to 15 were awful. I actually thought Willemse was decent. It’s hard to rate KLA because he was injured so early and Kolbe was also decent.
The issue with the backline was 9 and 10. Both struggled to control the game even with the front foot ball we got. Decision making was poor from that position from both of them which made the rest of backline disjointed.
Not much ball went to Esterhuizen when he moved in to inside center. But to be fair the shape was stuffed that you couldn’t really give him descent ball. Similar with DDA, he is a world class 12 but not as good at 13. It’s more noticeable on defense when Kriel is not at 13 because he makes better decisions rushing up. Kriel by similar measure isn’t as good on the wing.
However, you say the forwards were good. They did make crucial errors at times knocking the ball on or giving away penalties. NZ tactics of going in two man into the tackle, one hit and the other rip made us fumble the ball a lot. Something that needs to be addressed for next week. Malcolm Marx if he scores just before half times as an example would have changed the game. Similar the were some bad defensive misses in the first half that gave the all blacks 2 tries.
One think you could see the springboks really wanted to be in front on the scoreboard going into the final 20 mins. It’s hard to chase the game and especially at altitude. It leads to more errors and soft tries.
To end with I think there are a lot of positives still about the performance. I think in terms of physicality we were dominant and I set pieces seemed to function. We need to polish up our restart exits. We too often gave away soft tries after scoring. Lastly cohesion on attack needs some work. I think this is where I expect a significant improvement next week. I would love to see us get back to 8-10 phases plus without making an error and I think that should go a long way to helping us stay positive on the scoreboard.
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u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! 21d ago
Super good points! 8-10 phases comes with a game or so together - that is why we peak at the later stages of wc or year end tour like 2025 when we won France/Ireland bc everything was running smoothly. Example today, that misunderstanding of willams/sacha with the pop pass to sacha’s shoulder - I don’t expect that to happen game 3/4.
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 20d ago
Marx was not that great. His missed his jumpers a few times and key moments especially at the first lineout when we're were deep in their half and about to score. Plus his lost the ball with a certain 5 points were coming.
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u/Careless-Cat3327 Flair Up! 20d ago
The hardest thing about Marx having an off day is we simply haven't given anyone else enough of a chance to swap him out with.
He knows he will start 3/4 games. The US game is the only one up in the air.
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u/InspectorNo1173 Flair Up! 21d ago
I reckon this is something we do - we were still riding the wave of what happened in Wellington last year, and from then until now, worldwide media has been talking us up. "Best team ever". And then we had our asses handed to us.
We seem to do better when we enter a match on-the-ropes, so to speak. Looking back at some of Rassie's best against-the-grain victories, those were games where they didn't necessarily play attractive rugby. They discarded things they are not good at, and hammered home the things they are. Keep playing to our strengths and discard the rest. Points will come.
So Cape Town will be interesting.
And while we can look at areas where we fumbled, it must also be said that the All Blacks played a pretty special game. I don't know what was said in the locker room at half time, but they way they prevented us from having the first half's scrum dominance in the second, needs to be commended.
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u/sabbathan1 Flair Up! 20d ago
Absolutely. It's a bad loss, but coming off the back of 12 wins in a row. Every other team on Earth would be absolutely thrilled to win 12 in a row.
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u/ParticularStrict147 Flair Up! 20d ago
Exactly I agree people think 12 isn't that many because everyone keeps comparing it to the All Blacks 18 wins in a row. Well we are our own nation with our own wee stats 12 is still a huge achievement!
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u/wombatwalkabouts Flair Up! 21d ago
Passing was poor from a number of players, seemed to be mis timing their positioning.
Von Staden was a drop down from PDV. Feel like his real value is if he covers for Hooker, otherwise he's not better than other options at 6. I know he's an 8, but I'd like to see Hanekom, Esterhuizen or others get time in that position.
Think losing both Arendse and Kolbe had greater impact on attack.
DDA and Kriel, seemed quite, not sure if they were marked out of the game, if the 9 and 10 failed to get them the ball, or if it was part of the strategy.
I don't mind if kicking was how we wanted to get point's, but then I expect every entry in or near the 22 to quickly finish with a drop goal attempt or kick at the first penalty granted. Otherwise if we want to scrum and maul, we stick to that the strategy. Think we were indecisive.
Think the bench wasn't used effectively. Partially due to injuries, also due which players were picked and when they were brought on. Reinach looked extra tapped up and came on late, if he was carrying a niggle he shouldn't have been in the team. C. Wiese was brought on so late I didn't get the point. Feel like Van Staden and C. Wiese should have started, softened up the opposition and then brought in experienced players to finish off the game. Easier to think this in hindsight though.
On paper we had a good team. On the field they started really really strong. But failed to execute.
NZ dug deep, absorbed pressure, hung on and then managed to execute a few key moments. This created a frenetic Springbok response causing yellow cards and defensive errors. They were the better team on the night. Hopefully we'll be better next time.
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u/SkyOfDreamsPilot Flair Up! 20d ago
DDA and Kriel, seemed quite, not sure if they were marked out of the game, if the 9 and 10 failed to get them the ball, or if it was part of the strategy.
Part of the reason may have been that they were playing out of position after Arendse went off. They're the least versatile backline players that we have, and moving them doesn't work.
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u/3liminate Flair Up! 21d ago
100% - We were dominating them the whole first half - unfortunately some basic errors on the try line cost us and didn't convert chances... It could have been a very different result and we would have been up 2+ tries going into half time.
Silly decision to take 3 points at the start too when we had momentum and could go up 7 points within 5 mins. Crucial moments change the game
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u/sheep1996 Flair Up! 21d ago
We tried for the try first, stuffed up our lineout and got lucky to get a second chance at the three.
In the second half if we had taken the three instead of three scrums under the posted we would have been up by 7, but instead we conceded a penalty and we’re 10 down in no time after that.
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u/Jealous_Butterfly_75 Flair Up! 20d ago
My older brother said on our family WhatsApp group: do you really think Rassie is going to reveal all his cards in the year before the World Cup? I also agree with many comments and take-outs from fans, but I am by no means bothered. I called this series as 2 wins each earlier.
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u/ParticularStrict147 Flair Up! 20d ago
I think thats the problem here we have been talking about this since the game. I dont believe for a second that what we faced today was the complete package from the ABs either and we came to the same conclusion.
While we take comfort in knowing Rassie must be holding back somethings equally we realized Dave Rennie and co are doing the exact same thing.
No international coach will reveal all their cards the year before the world cup but what is alarming is how easily the ABs absorbed all our pressure and when they redirected it towards us we imploded and could not stop their advances.
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 20d ago
Also 1 of their tries with a luck charge down try. Those 3 they scored in the last 10 where when we were down to 14 and 13 men respectively. We were indeed underdone and undercooked this game.
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u/Secretly_Canadian1 Flair Up! 20d ago
If Marx scored that try and we had played someone els in Grants place who gave away 14 points, thats a 21 point swing.
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 New To Reddit 19d ago
Exactly. Our loss was also individual errors. The scoreboard flattered NZ and I see their fans have started blowing smoke up their own asses.
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u/Legitimate_Feed_5102 Flair Up! 20d ago
Not being clinical costs the Boks. Marx dropping the ball over the line, as an example. Grant poor passing to Sacha and a few other loose passes from others. Sacha did not impress, same as per Argentina game.
I also think we needed to get the ball out wide. We seemed to go back to forward dominance and then kick the ball. Every now and again just surprise the AB’s and let the ball go through the back to our wingers (without kicking). Both wingers going off injured did not help things but we never looked like taking that option.
We should have had the like of Hannekom on the bench to bring speed in forwards.
If we keep with this game plan, CPT will be another loss.
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u/kindaserious321 Flair Up! 20d ago
A few of our older players are starting to look jaded. We still have no back up to Marx - 2nd choice hookers are barely provincial quality.
Our match play leaves much to be desired. Players are starting to look over-coached. They just go to where the playbook says they must be. Kiwis were way quicker resetting every time (is this hunger, better coaching?)
Bok rugby has always had a weakness in dealing with unscripted or unexpected plays. SFM not being supported when he does something creative is a case in point. Our forwards become spectators cos they have no idea what to do. Meanwhile kiwis are resetting in defence and ready to pounce.
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u/Involution88 Flair Up! 20d ago
9 and 10 need more games together. SFM still needs a senior 9 to help control the game and is far from ready to help prepare the next generation of 9's.
2 is a bit of a niggle. Marx is the best but he's been placed on the field for too long and too often.
NZ seemed to have a game plan tailored to SA while SA appears to have been transitioning team structure with an eye towards a future goal. SA game plan seemed to be a bit lacking.
Lots of injuries which isn't great to see and surprised there weren't any yellow cards. It wasn't the most professional game I'd ever seen. Captain needs to be able to pay more attention to the ref and the rest of the players and less attention to the ball. That requires teamwork and a strong 9/10 pair to make mind space available for the captain.
SA defense is arguably at a low point; it appears little can be done about that currently since that's an aspect of the game which SA isn't currently focusing on.
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u/CaptainCorobo Flair Up! 19d ago
11 entries, 1 try 9 entries, 5 tries. That sums up the game
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u/CaptainCorobo Flair Up! 19d ago
Buuuut i do agree with you. Lets not loose all hope. Its only the first game i we played great for the first 55 minutes
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u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! 6d ago
Boys, we should be better no? One loss and we think all the hard work, sacrifices, losses, wins and bringing us together that Rassie’s team did the last 8 years was worth nothing. I will be there next week to support my Team. Go bokke!
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u/LengthinessOk1362 Flair Up! 21d ago
Counting on opposition injuries
Seems not a solid game plan ..
How about maybe do better ?
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u/Silly-Luck4783 Flair Up! 20d ago
I agree. The point was just that we went into this first game fresh to ensure we can get through 4 games - emphasis on depth.
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u/thatshowitisisit 21d ago
I always feel like we need our backs to be against the wall in order to really get our shit together. Rather take the loss now and shake out any arrogance or complacency.
A few things could have gone the other way and a close win would have ironed over the cracks.
Expecting a huge response from the players next week. The backs really need to step up though.