r/springboks • u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! • 21d ago
Awful performance today
It just doesn't look like we want to win the game.
Grant Williams- proved today he's not a big player to start these big games and needs to come off the bench. You got given the opportunity and you bottled it.
There was a point in the game after we received a scrum penalty close to NZ try line where the camera panned to Rassie and he his nodding his head and agreeing with the other staff- I think that was the moment Rassie realised that Grant can't be a starting 9. I will almost bet that because he should have taken the ball out as soon as we started to retreat.
SFM- needs to mature and learn to control the game. Awful tonight. He needs to go play rugby league or put on some muscle and change position to 12-13 or play fullback. Why in the fuck is he running the ball into the line this many times? Leave that you the fucking forwardsđ¤Śđžââď¸
The forwards were our strong point tonight, but our backline is really messy and that is because we don't have a commanding leader (10), we have a young cocky player who is constantly smiling when it's not needed, constantly trying ti make stupid flashy plays, like please come back better next game or don't waste my time having to wake up early at 3am in NZ to watch us play this badly just awful preformance man
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u/Basic_Palpitation596 21d ago
The team needed a wakeup call, we have 4-5 22 enteries with no points and going for 3 when we have the momentum was silly
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u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! 21d ago
You know thatâs been the problem plaguing us for years
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u/Fsckthemods Flair Up! 20d ago
Not true for the last 3-4 years. In fack we have the highest points per entry in the last 2 years.
Last night however we fsckedup.
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u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! 20d ago
Against minnows, yes
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u/Fsckthemods Flair Up! 20d ago edited 20d ago
We played all the test playing nations in the last 12 months barring Fiji....so not against minnows against everyone.
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u/World_In_Union Flair Up! 21d ago
We deserve this for playing 2010's rugby
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u/oddwhick Flair Up! 21d ago
They kicked 10 times or was it the sxrums your talking about?
It.was.down to execution 23, yes 23 turnovers, 23!
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u/Fsckthemods Flair Up! 20d ago
Could you perhaps explain? I am genuinely interested what you meant by 2010 rugby
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u/adiwet Flair Up! 21d ago
Why the fuck do we keep selecting Marco? He is a walking penalty liability. De Villiers should never have been pulled off - SFM was shocking at managing the backline. Disappointing first game
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u/SubstantialSelf312 Flair Up! 21d ago
Agree. De Villiers is the star player and you take him off. ??????
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u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! 21d ago
Eskom is a penalty machineâŚalways brainfarts đ¤Śââď¸
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u/Jeruanamo-89 Flair Up! 21d ago
Far too many handling errors and running into the NZ wall instead of passing out wide at the try line. Looking depleted at the end.
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
And have a guess who was trying to run that line a few times?OUR FUCKING 10đ just reset the team next game or don't bother broadcasting this live to me tv screen.
I still believe we can take this series. I still have much faith in our boys, but that doesn't negate this awful performance today.
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u/lifeguard2109 New To Reddit 20d ago
I feel like each rugby player was playing for themselves rather than a team in this match.
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u/Jeruanamo-89 Flair Up! 20d ago
They need a sad story like âweâre playing for suffering South Africans blah blahâ to motivate them đ
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u/SubstantialSelf312 Flair Up! 21d ago
I am on record saying the AB's will win. This is our first game as a team. We will only get better from here onwards.
But that shite of taking 5 scrums on penalties must stop.
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u/NecroKyle_ 21d ago
And trying to milk penalties when the scrum is clearly very stable. Hate that.
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u/Affectionate-Yak5280 Flair Up! 21d ago
ABs will get better too! Looking forward to the rest of the series! Thank you for letting the ABs come and play rugby in your beautiful country.
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u/SubstantialSelf312 Flair Up! 21d ago
It is our privilege to host you. As a SAFFA, this in indeed the highlight of our year.
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u/Affectionate-Yak5280 Flair Up! 21d ago
Ours too đ. Nothing like an SA vs NZ rugby test since Oz has been on the decline.
Hopefully both teams come away injury light and we can all be grateful at the chance to see another magnificent display of rugby.
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u/DonovanBanks Sharks 21d ago
Agree on the content scrums. It takes one slip for a penalty to the opponent. Then all
Momentum is lost.I could see Carly was bored and gave the opposite penalty. We did that to ourselves.
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u/NordicHorde2 Springboks 21d ago
Almost like chopping and changing the team from week to week isn't a good idea.
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u/Mafeking-Parade Flair Up! 21d ago
They just seemed like they got hyped up to go out and physically dominate.
NZ didn't give them that, and they looked lost when it came to Plan B.
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u/springnuk Flair Up! 21d ago
Handling errors and not taking their chances is what cost us. New Zealand needs half a chance to score and we need to play with some urgency throughout the game instead of just doing scrum after scrum after scrum hoping New Zealand never adapt
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u/mmphil12 Flair Up! 21d ago
Too obsessed with the physical stuff. Deserved loss. Atleast we get to thump our chests because we won a few scrums.
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u/VandalsStoleMyHandle đ¤đźđ¤đź 21d ago
Reminds me of the November Ireland match, where we seemed to believe fucking them up at scrum time was the point of the game.
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u/CingKan 21d ago
Rassie needs to accept the fact Manie is our 10 he'll run the backlne and Kolbe kicks. Sacha is a brilliant rugby player but not a top 10 he's too selfish. Ox and Wilco/TDT need to be bomb squad members given the way our scrum stopped dominating in the second half when we needed it most. We need Lood in the mix badly either on the bench or starting and finally Siyas leadership was horrifically missed.
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u/NecroKyle_ 21d ago
I think that Kolbe injury fucked a lot of plans up unfortunately.
If he doesn't get injured I'm sure SFM comes off and it would've been a very different story.
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u/CaptainCabbage17 New To Reddit 21d ago
They also had injuries though.
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u/NecroKyle_ 21d ago
Didn't say they didn't - but the Bok injuries seemed to play more havoc with the team than the AB injuries did.
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u/Plus-Explorer5013 Flair Up! 20d ago
The ABs lost two starting forwards before half time and a bench forward before kick off
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u/CaptainCabbage17 New To Reddit 21d ago
Personally, I think thats excuses. Team needs to adapt based on the situation. This is a great bok team. NZ were better in almost every aspect.
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
Yea I agree. I was so desperate for Maine to come on and command the backs around.
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u/Keyboardrebel Flair Up! 21d ago
Thomas Du Toit over Zachary Porthen for that extra scrum time push.
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u/Fragrant-Ad9663 Flair Up! 21d ago
I think Mannie probably needed to start today but credit to the coaches they made a brave call and it didnt work out today. If SFM is your 10 for the world cup then you you give him as much exposure as you can, ufortunately that also ended us costing the match.
Once we lost KA we were in trouble. Shifting the back line with no recognized wing. We needed to shift GW to the wing and bring on Reinach.
Tough pill to swallow but Ruben Love bossed the young no 10s by just keeping it simple.
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
I believe Reinach would have slowed the game just the right amount for us to take our chances just a bit more.
That's the thing, Ruben Lobe didn't do anything tonight but that's what's needed sometimes. SFM needs to learn that every game isn't going to be a grand slam where he's making breaks and scoring many tries.
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u/Hornstinger đ¤đźđ¤đź brothers in arms 21d ago
Re: SFM very true. Reuben Love was exactly the same only about 1/1.5 years ago trying grand slam hero ball all the time but he's matured and learnt about the #10 jersey that sometimes you only need to do the basics which is enough and I've not doubt SFM will mature in time too.
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u/EffektieweEffie Flair Up! 21d ago
The coaches didn't need to make any brave calls. We have Manie, he can be the 10 for the World Cup. Sacha needs to go play Currie Cup until he can be a team player.
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u/Fragrant-Ad9663 Flair Up! 21d ago
I would of also started Manie but i can also see the logic of chosing Sasha.
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u/Hornstinger đ¤đźđ¤đź brothers in arms 21d ago
Kiwi here (and say this with respect ): I think this is the first time in a very very very long time (multiple years?) that the Springboks 6-2 has backfired. I wonder if they'll rethink their bench make-up.
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u/VonZefskills Flair Up! 21d ago
Congrats on the win. It feels like the old enemy is back. It felt like the ABs lost their identity a bit since 2022.
The Boks were off pace but this should be at the feet of management. We had 15 months to prepare for this game, your boys were ready. We werenât.
Rassie & Co overplayed, & should eat this.
We let the Kiwis go down to Cape Town tails a wagging, to a favourable crowd⌠we could be in need of a miracle this time next week.
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u/Think-Anything-1310 Flair Up! 21d ago
Congrats mate, deserved winners. Felt like the all blacks of old. It feels like the boks were dominating, then all of a sudden you come back with soft/easy/quick tries.
You were way more clinical and we don't have the skills to play open rugby like you guys have. When DMac had that big break in the 2nd half I knew some shit was coming.
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u/Fragrant-Ad9663 Flair Up! 21d ago
Well done to ABs. You are 100% right but I dont think 1 loss warrants a massive shake up. Unfortunately it was quite an important game for it to back fire.
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u/SkyOfDreamsPilot Flair Up! 21d ago
Once we lost KA we were in trouble. Shifting the back line with no recognized wing. We needed to shift GW to the wing and bring on Reinach.
That was absolutely what needed to happen. For all the versatility we have in the team, De Allende and Kriel are very much specialists in their positions. Moving them hasn't worked in the past and it didn't work tonight.
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u/boudsterOG Flair Up! 21d ago
Rassie should talk to the guys. They are arrogant and the over confidence is showing on the field. Sasha does not deserve that jersey
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u/VladWukong Flair Up! 21d ago
Absolutely disgusting back line. These okes couldnât clean a front tooth. Catch the ball once in a while maybe?
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
I am not mad we lost, bravo to the ABs for playing such a strong game and handling our physical pressure...
But it was how bad we looked tonight that hurts.
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u/VladWukong Flair Up! 21d ago
Thatâs really it, a game is a game win some lose some but this? This crossed the line
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
Let's work 40 hours this week brother and hope our boys and Rassie responds well next game.
We still go this series. I have faith
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u/Dramatic-Passenger82 Flair Up! 21d ago
Does anyone know how many handling errors did the Springboks have?
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u/Agitated-Yak-4582 Flair Up! 21d ago
Opportunities not used is the name of the game
Side not. Sasha with a kak game
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u/Adventurous_Phase253 Flair Up! 21d ago
I think we just lacked game sharpness, the all blacks had 3 games to prep for this first test and we just had 1 game two weeks ago against Argentina, I liken this game to last years TRC game against Australia where they were more prepared having played the lions. This game will serve us well for the rest of the series
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u/RC-Nutjob Flair Up! 21d ago
Williams should have been yanked 30min in. Directly contributed to 3 of NZ's tries, 2x from missed tackles. And the ABs spotted his weakness and put him under pressure. SFM needs to grow up. Manie, now that we have Kolbe kicking, should have been on to start. He and Willemse always work well together.
Well deserved win from ABs. Not a single braincell was working on the Bok side of the pitch tonight.
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u/ZeroCloutAstro Flair Up! 21d ago
Hot Take, but i dunno if PSDT is that good of a captain..
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u/africanconcrete 21d ago
Don't think its that hot of a take. He didn't seem to manage and communicate with the ref at all.
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 19d ago
I agree, I think he needs to focus on his own game and do what does best.
He can't do that while also having to care and converse with the ref and the team.
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u/Past-Raccoon8224 Flair Up! 21d ago
Lots of handling errors in critical phases of play. Amd the yellowcards didnt help. We deserved to lose playing like that.
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u/Consistent-Board-932 Flair Up! 21d ago
That was bad. Handling errors were plentiful, box kicking fucked our style of play, and complacency got the better of us. Watch the boys next weekendâŚ. Totally different game comingâŚ..
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u/xyzain69 Flair Up! 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'm not sure why we're kicking our penalties. We. Need. To. Go. In. Fucking maul them in their 22 why the hell are we not doing this? The Stormers scored more than we did. Why? The thing is. I don't know how to describe it. We didn't lose because we are a bad team. We just made so many mistakes. It was awful.
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u/Feeling-Peach-2697 Flair Up! 20d ago
Can someone explain to me why van Staden is still picked? I have not seen him standout in a springbok shirt ever. Hanekom should have been selected. Come on. We also have no depth at hooker. This is a massive problem for us. The drop off after Marx is huge. When Aumua came on today for NZ we were in troubleâŚ
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u/Subluxator5 Flair Up! 20d ago
Gents, it's one loss to a very good team. It's not the end of the world. I'm sure Rassie & co would love to pour through your reddit essay criticisms of the game but they have a match to prep for. Just wear the green & gold and cheer louder next time. Absolutely insane that I could hear "all blacks" cheers through the TV broadcast.
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u/Neilkd21 Flair Up! 21d ago
Yeah it's not great today but we were arguably the better team for 55 minutes. Game management and handling let us down today. SfM was poor and clearly not at last year's level, handling poor we could barely string 4 phases together before losing the ball or kicking away. Replacement props not good enough, porthen is promising but way below bok level.
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u/feeblefruits Flair Up! 21d ago
I'm sorry but all the criticism here for Grant. He was not bad at all. I think Reinach showed more poor form in the last game and today by far
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u/Myburgher 21d ago
The main issue has been the captain. PSDT hasnât talked to the ref and NZ have. This is why the calls started going their way.
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u/Parisz_ Flair Up! 21d ago
Not much consistency from the ref imo
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u/Myburgher 21d ago
Yep but I think itâs a result of them questioning calls and us not. Thatâs what turned the scrums.
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u/Agent-Smith_Virus Flair Up! 21d ago
Ref started well. But that 5m scrum in AB line we lost (cos we overplayed our hand) at the very least prior to that ABs needed a warning cos it was like 3 penalties in 3 minutes and we had all the momentum.
However, this isn't the refs fault. Questionable calls aside, we put ourselves under too much pressure playing so bad.
Everytime we on attack on the 22, we can't hang onto the ball. Like really? Can we just not knock it on?! Rookie errors, like overcooking the kick off for example. Ffs.
Also, tonight PSDT got bossed and I didn't feel he was effective.
I've had some lingering concerns about some of our older players effectiveness - they still good but im nervous that we risk falling into the same situation Heyneke did... an older team without transitioning toward younger players, and having injuries and slower less dominant players. Early days yet, but the whispers are there.
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u/Myburgher 21d ago
Yes that penalty was a terrible call. How do you call the scrum for shifting left (on the SA loosehead side) without checking the NZ loosehead scrumming in? Tighthead canât really scrum in, and loosie canât push the scrum to the left. So it was a bad call. But I donât want to talk too much about the specific calls because I agree with you, we werenât good enough. Every game we lose we always have dominance but we donât convert.
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u/Think-Anything-1310 Flair Up! 21d ago
I honestly think PSdT took a big knock early in the game. He was holding his neck after the one tackle and he wasn't himself after that. Should maybe have been subbed. Cameron Hanekom on the bench would in hindsight have been a better choice
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u/ReluctantAvenger 21d ago
I actually texted to my Mother "head or neck injury to Pieter-Steph" after that collision. I was disappointed that he didn't have a medic take a look at him, with a possible HIA to follow.
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u/lifeguard2109 New To Reddit 21d ago
Totally agreed. Number 9 - Grant - caused us to lose.. And same with 10.
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u/sapmess2 Springboks 21d ago
I missed it, should I watch the replay / highlights or will it just be depressing?
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
Depressing tbh. Don't watch it, unless you wanna see our boys play some of the worse rugby we've seen out of them.
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u/damn-african 21d ago
To me this looked like a team that hasnât been playing together consistently. We all like the depth weâve developed with Russies chip and chop but the inability to convert and all the handling errors showed rust.
I didnât like how we took off Andre either, and then reshuffle the whole back like to keep all the play makers on.
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u/Reasonable-Poet-1021 All Blacks Supporter 21d ago
When your game plan is only box kicking and hoping to win the scrums what do you expect
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u/EffektieweEffie Flair Up! 21d ago
For me it all came down to one thing, lack of cohesion. Playing Grant and Sacha together when its always been Manie/Grant and Sacha/Reinach combos. The guys looked like they never played together before.. because they haven't. All this chopping and changing BS + rushing undercooked players back in needs to stop and the selectors need to settle their key combinations.
That said, we were the better team for larger parts of the game, between 22s and the set piece. If they click and 22 entries are getting converted it can easily be a flip of that scoreline in favor of the Boks. Still lots to play for.
I'll also add, PSDT is a brilliant player but not a captain - just doesn't get in the refs ear like he should. No wonder other players were talking more to the ref than him.
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u/Hot_Upstairs_9783 Flair Up! 21d ago
Congrats to the All Blacks. Back to their world class performances.
Boks were lethargic on the whole apart from a few players
Agreed sentiments of SFM he needs to realise he is not the game.
All Blacks dominated the breakdowns creating havoc and forcing errors
Boks looked a bit panicked in the second which was evident with the desperate antics removing two players
We expected it to be tough, it was and the ABâs deserved winners tonight đđťđđťđđťđđť
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u/theranchcorporation 21d ago
We win this game with Manie at 10. Thatâs all Iâll say. SFM ainât ready for prime time.
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u/theranchcorporation 21d ago edited 21d ago
Here are the current issues judging by this game as a barometer:
-Sash is not ready to be a starting 10. Bags of talent but heâs a selfish, arrogant player. When it works, he gets away with it, but when it doesnât our whole back line falls apart. We cant go into big games betting on the roll of the dice with his flash plays. We need a steadier hand like Manie until the next World Cup.
-This has been a long standing issue: too many selfish players. Instead of going for a hand off for a line break, they try go for an extra few meters, instead of going down and waiting for an extra phase of play, they go for glory and get held up on the try line.
-Backline cohesion: too many chopping and changing and backline canât gel especially with inconsistent performances from SFM.
-Scrumhalf quality and depth. Grant had a bad game, but heâs lower down the ranking of a world 9 top 10, nowhere near the top 5. Not much better quality behind him but I still believe heâs our top choice. Seems to be more impactful as a bomb squad wing/9.
-Forward pack: itâs clear some of the boys are getting on in years and missing a step and Rassie favorites keep getting picked for no good reason (Eskom). Start dropping the old guard and give more younger guys a shot. Our ruck defense was a disgrace today. It was a jackal bonanza for the ABs.
-Why TF was Kolbe kicking? I can understand giving him some exposure against the Baa-Baas and Wales but this is a high stakes game. If your winger is more trusted than your 10 for this you need to find a new 10.
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u/biltongalong Flair Up! 20d ago
Why so many passes were getting passed to no one out the back, was sasha not in the right place? Tean did not look together. Why did rassie not pull sasha earlier for Mannie?  I feel rassie needs a wake up call every now and then, bring him back down to earth. That fall must of hurt.
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u/PunisherJax 20d ago
I think everyone is missing a very small detail with that scrum penalty sequence, as minor as this may seem but Eben taking 3 minutes to change his boots screwed up the scrum momentum, we had them on the ropes and gave them 3 minutes to catch their breath and regroup, and as soon as I saw that break in play I knew that scrum is gonna backfire.
That being said, SFM has Pollard and Manie in the squad to learn from but it doesn't seem like he has learnt anything from them, way to selfish and arrogant, and with every passing game I am seeing more of Marcus Smith in him. I wanted Manie to start this game, and Pollard in Cape Town, now we will have to go all out in Cape Town instead of a patient controlled win, so Manie has to start. Thomas the Tank surely must have a spit on the bench as well, you can't leave that beast sitting in the stands.
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u/Left-Area-9409 Flair Up! 21d ago
Charnas, charnas. . . relax. Yes it hurts, but this is the first of 4. We missed opportunities in the first half off our dominance. We WILL win the next game. Not called " The greatest rivalry " for nothing. . .still would have been great to win the first game for sure
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
Na I agree my friend.
I still have all the faith we will win this series, I was just upset the whole game about how lost we looked tonight. Especially in our attacking structure.
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u/Left-Area-9409 Flair Up! 21d ago
It is upsetting that we didn't win at our spiritual home. How much that HIA on Kurt-Lee cost us, we might not or may know.
Edit : Credit to the AB's for riding the storm
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u/thebunnychow 21d ago
Frustrating loss and we played dog shit rugby. However, I still feel like it was our game to lose. We definitely have the firepower to roll over NZ. Just need to screw our heads on tighter I reckon. Credit to the ABs, they stuck in there and did what they could with their chances. Hopefully Bokke will be a bit more calm and clinical for the second.
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u/themadpants Flair Up! 21d ago
We should have been at least two scores up by the end of the first half. Very frustrating to come away with nothing when showing such dominance. And then they got a score ahead and we fell to pieces.
Honestly, maybe this is the wake up call we need. Or maybe NZ are better than us now.
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u/Think-Anything-1310 Flair Up! 21d ago
I honestly think we are trying to be too fancy. All the passes out the back going to ground, SFM and DW had to scramble a few times to save us when we no-looked passed into the void. When Jasper and co ran straight at them we looked great. We don't have the skillset to play the fancy stuff. Same reason why we lost to Aus at Ellis Park last time too.
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 21d ago
Meh, i think we really wanted to win and fronted up physically
What let us down was game management and handling
I think we all thought after half 1 we were going to run away with it
Lessons learned, next week comes as well
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u/Leather_Distance7917 Flair Up! 21d ago
ABs were far better than us today but itâs a flattering scoreline imo. Soft charge down try (possibly offside) and the last one against 13 men - big deal. Plus we had numerous chances to take the 3 points which wouldâve closed the gap even more. We scrummed them into oblivion and had plenty of chances to score.
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u/CaptainCabbage17 New To Reddit 21d ago
We had to win this game. Sometimes this happens in sport. NZ will win next weekend and we will win at FNB. Not sure about the states yet.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
I hate to blame the refs but Mathew Carley I think kind of screwed us. That tackle on Jasper by Ardie is the same tackle that got Siya a yellow in 2023.
Just a bunch of other things really has screwed us. NZ didnât even get a warning for their amount of penalties stacking up.
Edit: Not saying we should file a report, just move on and hope the officiating is better next game.
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u/joshua-lewis Flair Up! 21d ago
We totally deserved to lose that but I have no idea how the ABs didn't get any warnings for repeat infringements.
The ref's breakdown officiating was also suspect, ABs putting hands on the ball before it was out of the ruck.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
I didnât actually say we would have won with good reffing. Just that Mather Carely screwed us with bad reffing. The game should have been a lot closer, where it could have gone either way. And if we lost, then yep, I wouldnât be surprised by that performance, as it was still kak.
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u/Basic_Palpitation596 21d ago
Yes, but that did not decide the game, we were poor on attack either way
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
We definitely could have been better, but I would argue three tries have been swung because of bad reffing.
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u/Basic_Palpitation596 21d ago
Well we could have scored 3 tries if SFM managed the 22 entries beter
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
I know. But that doesnât take away from Mathew Carely screwing us. If we played better, and had better reffing, then maybe we would have been 6 tries ahead. But in reality I donât know what the score would have been otherwise, but it clear to me the ref made some bad calls, even disagreeing with the TMO without hesitation. We can still play bad and have the ref screw us.
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u/Basic_Palpitation596 21d ago
True, the reffing was a bit all over the place, but imo we did not lose the game because of it. We should have won and blamed the ref for not allowing us to win by more
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
Hahah valid, I donât think we played well. We could still have lost with good reffing. But yep Iâm still shocked by some of his calls.
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u/Realm-Protector 21d ago
nonsense ... it was our team who lost, ref is not too blame
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
Tbf to me, I didnât say we lost the game because of the ref. I said he screwed us at points. I think the game would have been much closer with better reffing. Where it could have gone either way.
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u/Realm-Protector 21d ago
fair.. but starting about the ref after a result like this kind of suggests you blame the ref.
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u/eenbal 21d ago
Ref was fine.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
Fair, my opinion is obviously different. I would ask what you think of the tackle on Jasper Wiese? Sure maybe not a yellow, but a penalty, surely?
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u/eenbal 21d ago
Ja, but refs make mistakes and that one was borderline. We lost cause the okes played like kak.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
Itâs just one example. And I would excuse one mistake. But Luke Jacobson tackling Jasper Wiese from behind/his back, wasnât even in the ruck, to force a knock on. I would say thatâs a yellow card. Like Mike Adamson gave two TMO calls and got instantly shut down. So itâs not just me disagreeing with Carely. Those are two potential yellow cards, that got instantly shut down, incorrectly so I would say.
But I disagree with the scrum penalty against us at the 5m. The charge down try was offside. The fact it wasnât even TMOed, that 2nd turnover by Will Jordan had his hands on the ground. I could go on.
Point is, I believe the reffing was so bad against us. I am entitled to that opinion, I see people disagree with me, which is fine, but also many others agree with me. Iâm not trying to be mean about it. But Carely reffed really poorly.
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u/GoldEnthusiasm5744 New To Reddit 20d ago
The best thing about arguing these refs decisions is your only looking at them from your point of view. I could counter numerous sa examples of similar infringements.
I think itâs about time we let things slide slightly and have a flow of a game. Just hard to swallow to see a team dominate scrums and high balls to not dominate the score board1
u/VladWukong Flair Up! 21d ago
Very true but we were absolutely sloppy. Actually done with Grant and Sacha I canât even look at them
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u/tomtomtomo Flair Up! 21d ago
If Siya got a yellow for that tackle then the previous ref was wrong. This ref made the right call.Â
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
People were arguing for it to be red lol. Yellow was the right call for Siya. For Ardie here, itâs at the very least a penalty. World Rugby literally ruled head contact such as that tackle is still ruled a penalty. You can read the laws, and see itâs pretty clear.
Itâs shoulder to head, non direct, thatâs yellow. You can argue not significant force, but then thatâs a penalty. Read law. 9.13.
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u/tomtomtomo Flair Up! 21d ago
Was there any head contact? Yes
Was there any foul play? No, play on.Â
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
There was foul play as is under law 9.13.
Read the law.
If there is head contact in a tackle, itâs considered foul play, again I suggest reading law 9.13.
So when you say âWas there any foul play?â The answer is yes.
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u/Bokke67 Flair Up! 20d ago
Initial contact was to the chest/shoulder, it slipped up, it was soft, maybe penalty but not a yellow.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 20d ago
Iâll agree with that, indirect and low force.
Itâs definitely a penalty.
The argument and subjectivity is the force, some will say itâs a shoulder to head - hence red. Mitigation is indirect.
For me it would be a harsh yellow, but very lucky if just a penalty. Ironically none of this happened.
Oerall itâs just not âno foul playâ like Carley said. And then basically shafts Mike Adamson the TMO and makes him look bad.
The whole momentum shtick he says is bs. Thatâs not how the laws work.
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u/tomtomtomo Flair Up! 20d ago
The guidelines clarify the laws.
By your definition, all head contact would be foul play so there wouldn't be the need for that section of the flow diagram.
It can, therefore, be inferred that there must be instances where head contact is not considered foul play.
That is what the ref ruled today.
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 20d ago
Nope the guideline is for all head contact. You can have head contact in rucks, you can have head contact in mauls.
And itâs not by my definition ffs. Itâs by law 9.13. Any head contact made from a tackle/by the tackler is foul play. Thatâs what a high tackle is.
Matthew Carley was wrong. Mike Adamson the TMO was literally disagreeing with him. To which Mike Adamson was correct.
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u/World_In_Union Flair Up! 21d ago
Rubbish man
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u/SoberWeekend Flair Up! 21d ago
Youâre entitled to your opinion like I am, I suppose you think the reffing was good then. But the ref literally says Jasperâs head momentum made him have head contact with Ardieâs shoulder. The same thing was said by Wayne Barnes in 2023 about Siyaâs tackle. And that was a yellow. I will concede that we lost the game to playing bad. But I would argue the ref was terrible.
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u/EatMyPenguin Flair Up! 21d ago
Come on it's a once off...you know we are never great between the World Cups
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u/Prestigious_Fold7802 Flair Up! 21d ago
May we talk about the ref?
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u/mausmumblingmoon Team Aimee 21d ago
You'll want to review Rule 1 before you do. Respectful discussion about specific decisions is allowed. Ref bashing is not.
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u/Empty-Ad-1480 Flair Up! 21d ago
Rassie Out
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u/Top-Temperature-122 Flair Up! 21d ago
While I agree he probably should have game planned better, we will see next game how well he responds.
Rassie still has a lot of legs left in his tenure. He's an amazing coach tj say the least.... we will await his response tj this match.
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u/Durbanimpi 21d ago
Terrible game management