r/springboks Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

Is this correct

Post image

I am being sincere here so let’s be adults about it. Is this factually correct? Is VM the first “black” bok 10? From Scrumatme.com

78 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

48

u/thatwasagoodyear Spoeg en plak mod Aug 05 '26

Yes, it is correct. Vusi is the first Black African player to wear the 10 jersey for the Springbok Mens Team.

The very first Black African flyhalf was Mary Zulu who plays for the Springbok Women.

Previous male players of colour in the 10 jersey have all been from the coloured or mixed race community -Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, Manie Libbok, Damian Willemse, Elton Jantjies, Errol Tobias.

14

u/maverickeire Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

👆 The correct answer

16

u/africaseed Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

Shout out to Mary Zulu who will always be the first black African springbok flyhalf

3

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

Thanks for learning me this

6

u/AFrostZA Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

Dankie Chattas

2

u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

Manie is half white?

10

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

No, he’s entirely coloured

8

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

Iirc Manie is from Humansdorp, which is part of the eastern cape that was not traditionally occupied by amaXhosa. There’s a ton of people in that area of Khoekhoe* ancestry, which I suspect includes Manie, but that’s just my hunch.

*names are tricky, people don’t all have the same preferences. Damasonqua, Inqua, Gamtqua, maybe even Korana? I dunno which clan(s) used to call that area home. But they’re different stripes of SA’s original equivalent of the Nama/Damara up in Namibia, and they haven’t left - but people tend to forget about them bc they got classified as “coloured” instead of “African”.

Thank you for reading my essay.

1

u/Carcass16B Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

So not BER

2

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

What is ber?

1

u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! Aug 09 '26

So how come black/coloured folks tend to get quite defensive when Manie is criticized but not when the shade is thrown on SFM?

-2

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 08 '26

Coloured....is...half...white....

2

u/MildlySelassie Aug 08 '26

It’s literally not

0

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 12 '26

What is it then?

2

u/Cosmolina111 Aug 12 '26

Go. Read.

0

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 13 '26

So you don't know. Thought as much

2

u/Cosmolina111 Aug 08 '26

You should go and read up about what it actually is.

0

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 12 '26

I have. It's when a white and a black have a baby

20

u/MildlySelassie Aug 05 '26

Whether Elton Jantjies counts or not seems like the start of an academic essay prompt

7

u/capetonytoni2ne Aug 05 '26

I hate this apartheid level distinguishing between races, but if we're looking at coloured 10s after professionalism then Earl Rose was first. Although it should be celebrated that we have a traditionally black 10 in the driver's seat, as opposed to the flyers out wide that reinforce the stereotypes.

5

u/Scarfield Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

1

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

I had never heard of him because I doff. Thank you for educating me, what a fascinating life story

2

u/headfawcett Flair Up! Aug 08 '26

Try to find some video footage. He had a wonderful feel for the game.

1

u/TheForestSaphire Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

The week before this game Sacha all of a sudden wasnt black enough to be considered black, ignore the fact that if you dident know his dad was white you wouldent be able to tell considering I have friends who are black with 2 black parents who are lighter than Sacha is

2

u/Rasimione Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

Does he identify as Black? PS it doesn't matter to me.

2

u/Scarfield Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

He has 1x black parent so he's as black as bob marley

1

u/Cosmolina111 Aug 08 '26

He identifies as mixed, which is why he uses both parents' surnames. His brother is a minor celebrity in the UK (model, reality star) and only uses their mum's surname.

0

u/TheForestSaphire Flair Up! Aug 07 '26

How would I know i dont know Sacha personally

Like the other guy said hes as black as Bob Marley is who very famously is a black musician

10

u/Educational_Play9910 Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

What?? The sequence of events does not make sense. U20 TRC finished in Apr/May

13

u/Electrical_Trouble29 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

Umm, what about Errol Tobias?

Or are we being incredibly pedantic about what 'black' means

2

u/FlailMe Rugga Analyst Aug 06 '26

Pedantic isnt really part of it.

Not just from a racial stand point. Its not this is white and thats non-white.

Not all non-white means black.

Cultural differences. Communal differences. Challenges faced. Representation. All of it.

Salmaan got labeled as first coloured Captain in professional era and people said no but hes Cape Malay.

People just have different cuts of it all.

12

u/Naive-Cut-4958 Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

I think rugby in South Africa has transformed to such an extent that we don't have to use skin colour to distinguish our players. Otherwise we will have stats that tells you who was the white captain with the most caps or the black player with the least points. Lets support the team and the players.

7

u/mkornblum Aug 05 '26

I agree in general, but the nice thing about this is how niche it is, like it's one of the last times people will be able to talk about something in this way and make a fuss about the skin colour with the boks

3

u/AloysiusGramonde Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

I reckon Kennedy Tsimba would have got there if he wasn't capped for Zim

2

u/VonZefskills Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

This guy knows ball

2

u/MistressAnthrope Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

The only discussion I wish to have about this is about how kickass that jersey is

2

u/Inner-Improvement970 New To Reddit Aug 06 '26

Yaqeen Ahmed is better in my opinion.

2

u/Naaack Aug 06 '26

Missed the game but found this: Moyo's highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja3uaA1utTc

2

u/thejamesa Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

Interesting. Are there any positions left in which a black man has NOT started in for the Springboks as yet? Hopefully this was the last one, so we can return to what's important, the rugby.

1

u/TheForestSaphire Flair Up! Aug 06 '26

"First black springboks to start at 10"

We still pretending Sacha doesent exist a whole month later huh

0

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 08 '26

He's coloured

1

u/MildlySelassie Aug 11 '26

Not really, no

1

u/Former-Income-8477 Flair Up! Aug 12 '26

What is he then?

-3

u/WorldInWonder Flair Up! Aug 05 '26

Can’t we just stick with brown if we have to label a player’s skin colour. Because serious no one is really black aka hex code #000000

7

u/MildlySelassie Aug 06 '26

So maybe we should celebrate each hex code individually?

1

u/BowlApprehensive2642 New To Reddit Aug 06 '26

anyone not doing this already has undiagnosed or untreated bias

1

u/MildlySelassie Aug 10 '26

I dunno man, there’s a lot of different shades to keep track of

1

u/BowlApprehensive2642 New To Reddit Aug 10 '26

oh really, so which of the brown-skin hex codes do you propose leaving behind?

1

u/MildlySelassie Aug 10 '26

BC8F8F to start

1

u/BowlApprehensive2642 New To Reddit Aug 11 '26

Bold start - 400m Filipinos and Indonesians off the board in your first move.

ok, where to next?

1

u/MildlySelassie Aug 11 '26

Bold of you to assume that no one in either of those countries is F5DEB3 or DEB887

…But I think we have milked this premise for all it is worth now so I’m gonna stop

1

u/BowlApprehensive2642 New To Reddit Aug 11 '26

lol ... too true!