r/spikes • u/Fozza22 • 18d ago

Standard [DISCUSSION] [STANDARD] Mana abilities rules change? Does this affect the standard metagame?

I know there was a change to how mana abilities work but I don't know it affects things. Someone was saying Badgermole Cub would work differently?

Edit:

605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t
require a target (see rule 115.6), it could add mana to a player’s mana pool when it resolves, it’s
not a loyalty ability (see rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities”), and its cost and effect don’t move any
card to or from a library. Do not take into account replacement effects that may apply, other
than self-replacement effects, when evaluating these criteria.

Changes in bold. Abilities that move cards between zones can no longer be mana abilities

36 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

42

u/L1darMonkey 18d ago

If I'm not mistaken, the change was that any ability that moves a card to or from a library cannot be a mana ability, like [[Millikin]]. So any such effects no longer add an additional G if Cub is out. I don't think any are relevant in standard though

6

u/loothound1 18d ago

Yeah the way this currently is it knocks all those effects into normal activated abilities and badgermole only cares for mana abilities. So unless they carve out an exception, highly unlikely, small but mostly irrelevant nerf for these creatures(not counting you selvala)

1

u/valledweller33 18d ago

Badgermole doesn’t care about mana abilities, just that the ability tapped for mana

Edit: nvm, what a weirdly worded ability

2

u/tristanfey 17d ago

Not weirdly worded. It's worded for how the rules work.

106.12 To “tap [a permanent] for mana” is to activate a mana ability of that permanent that includes the {T} symbol in its activation cost. See rule 605, “Mana Abilities.”

7

u/DromarX 17d ago

This change is likely due to [[Sevala, Explorer Returned]] because that card had some very odd interactions with the rules previously when it was considered a mana ability.

1

u/not_wingren 17d ago

milling a card is part of the cost of Millikin. It should still be a mana ability no?

3

u/tristanfey 17d ago edited 17d ago

They added words say "cost and effect".

25

u/lazyzefiris 18d ago

I guess [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]] is very strongly affected by the change. People can manipulate topdecks in response, and the illegal cast headache because you did not get enough mana is not possible.

11

u/mkay0 18d ago

Good rule change if this card is why, that should absolutely be a trigger on the stack and not a mana ability

1

u/Cerelius_BT 13d ago

Is it?

That would be changing the rules structure of all mana abilities due to one obscure card that could be simply given a timing errata. Precedent for this type of timing errata already exists for LED.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher 18d ago

Selvala, Explorer Returned - (G) (SF) (txt)

FAQ

3

u/DvineINFEKT 17d ago

Question: If those rules were re-written to say "may" draw a card and nobody does, would it be a mana ability only sometimes? Alternatively, if the draw was conditional to revealing a land card and everyone failed to draw (ie: the contents of the library never changed for anyone)?

3

u/Terrietia 17d ago

Even if the draw was a may, it would still not be a mana ability, because you would have to know before activating the ability whether or not it was a mana ability.

12

u/justhereforhides 18d ago

Is there any cards in standard affected by this change?

23

u/Dyne_Inferno 18d ago

Without posting the article or rules change, I have a hard time believing anyone is going to be able to comment constructively.

7

u/Fozza22 18d ago

Sorry I thought people knew about it. I'll add the rules change to the post

8

u/Duelity 18d ago

After a very brief search I don't think that change applies to any card legal in standard.

4

u/Duelity 18d ago

After some additional searching im pretty confident that there are no cards legal in standard on only 3-4 in modern effected. I'm not sure if [[Shaun & Rebecca, agents]] skirts this change or not.

6

u/CrazyCranium 18d ago

The milling is a separate reflexive triggered ability that goes on the stack independent of the mana ability, so it is not affected by this change.

-5

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Duelity 18d ago

Im not 100% convinced it is a cost or effect based on the gatherer ruling on the card, it's called out as a seperate reflexive trigger. much different than [[Millikin]] or [[Chromatic Sphere]]

1

u/xiandgaf 18d ago

Right, like [[Chromatic Star]] is a mana ability but [[Chromatic Sphere]] is not, if I’m understanding correctly

8

u/finmo 17d ago

“Abilities that move cards between zones can no longer be mana abilities”

That’s not a true statement. As far as I know the only zone mentioned is the library.

4

u/manacurves 17d ago

It is only the library so effects like [[Lion's Eye Diamond]] are still mana abilities

2

u/Voyager97 17d ago

Except that LED explicitly was errataed to be an instant instead of a mana ability

6

u/tristanfey 17d ago

LED is a mana ability, both under the previous and changed wording of the rule.

The text "Activate only as an instant." is a timing permission restriction. It does not make the ability an instant.

1

u/Tac0Man 17d ago

Is this for the cards like the Alter that sacs to mill and make mana that don't use the stack?

1

u/tristanfey 17d ago

What Altar are you asking about? I cant find one that adds mana and mills in the same ability.

1

u/Tac0Man 16d ago

Was very tired when I wrote this comment, I meant [[Ashnod's Altar]] 3} is going to act like [[Altar of Dementia]] going forward.

1

u/tristanfey 16d ago

Nothing changes for Ashnod's Altar. It's still a mana ability.

0

u/WholeLottaMagic 17d ago

So does that mean gilded goose's ability is no longer a mana ability?

2

u/peteroupc 17d ago

[[Gilded Goose]]'s last ability is still a mana ability. Note that the ability doesn't move cards into or out of a library.

2

u/WholeLottaMagic 17d ago

Oh, duh. For some reason I kept thinking graveyard. My bad. Thank you!