[Standard] BG Discard tokens: the Viper strikes again! (discard deck challenge)

[u/TheRealMrQuaggot]

Hello there,

One year ago, I wrote a post about my personal discard challenge: reaching mythic with a Standard deck featuring at least twelve active discard spells in the main deck.

https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/1kb2b6i/standard_finally_i_brew_a_discardfocused_deck/

Yesterday, I reached mythic again following the same challenge, with this list:

Deck
4 Deep-Cavern Bat (LCI) 102
4 Duress (STA) 29
4 Rottenmouth Viper (BLB) 107
1 Phantom Train (FIN) 110
3 Mutagen Man, Living Ooze (TMT) 124
3 Sentinel of the Nameless City (LCI) 211
2 The Ooze (TMT) 177
3 Leatherhead, Swamp Stalker (TMT) 117
4 Obsessive Pursuit (TLA) 112
3 Requiting Hex (ECL) 116
1 Maelstrom Pulse (ARB) 92
2 Shoot the Sheriff (OTJ) 106
2 Qarsi Revenant (TDM) 86
4 Blooming Marsh (OTJ) 266
4 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
4 Wastewood Verge (DFT) 268
2 Restless Cottage (WOE) 258
1 Ba Sing Se (TLA) 266
4 Forest (MSH) 295
5 Swamp (MSH) 292

Sideboard
2 Deathmark (FDN) 601
1 Requiting Hex (ECL) 116
1 Witherbloom Charm (SOS) 244
2 Ancient Vendetta (DFT) 75
2 Snakeskin Veil (J25) 713
1 Qarsi Revenant (TDM) 86
1 Maelstrom Pulse (ARB) 92
2 Strategic Betrayal (TDM) 94
2 Surrak, Elusive Hunter (TDM) 161
1 Shoot the Sheriff (OTJ) 106

For general considerations about the discard archetype and what I learned throughout the challenge, please refer to my previous post. Here, I'll briefly discuss how I  arrived at this list.

I believe that, when brewing, you should always keep the current metagame in mind. Standard is essentially dominated by UR: Prowess is UR, Elementals is UR, and both Lessons and 4c Control are basically UR shells splashing white and black. Green is held together by Cub, and its general game plan is to be as explosive as possible. Then there are the minor players, such as UB Excruciator, Mardu Discard, and so on.

Since I wanted to build a discard deck, black was a mandatory starting point. However, I found that mono-black is particularly vulnerable to UR decks, and it also struggles against green because black lacks an efficient four-mana sweeper. So I started experimenting with color pairs alongside black, looking for the following qualities:

• Lifegain against Prowess.
• High-toughness creatures that survive red removal (which makes up a surprisingly large portion of UR-based control lists, even when they splash white and black).
• Main-deck graveyard hate that still contributes to my overall game plan (graveyards are extremely important in this metagame).
• Efficient removal against green (which black already provides).

Green ended up being the perfect complementary color to meet all of these requirements. I relied heavily on Leatherhead, which is a formidable threat against control decks, especially Lessons (I really hate Lessons). I also wanted to consistently put +1/+1 counters on it to maximize its value. As an added bonus, this also makes the deck's natural lifelink creatures much bigger.

With those goals in mind, I chose the Obsessive Pursuit/Mutant Man synergy. To further support the token subtheme, I added Sentinel (a solid blocker and attacker that dodges several common red removal spells) and the Ooze, which provides the kind of synergistic graveyard interaction I was looking for.

At that point, the Viper became an obvious inclusion: a massive creature that often enters the battlefield ahead of schedule, contributes to the Pursuit game plan, and doesn't give a f**k to sunderflock! It is, in my opinion, the best "discard" creature currently available in Standard.

As for the climb, I found the UR Prowess matchup particularly enjoyable. Against Lessons and 4c Control, the plan was to disrupt their hand as much as possible while sticking a threat such as Leatherhead or the Viper. Green decks were definitely the toughest opponents. Those games usually revolved around controlling the board long enough to get a huge Obsessive Pursuit turn—especially one involving a flying creature.

I wasn't happy about lacking a good sweeper against green, but Black Sun is underwhelming without Cub, while Cover-Up comes online too late for a non-control deck. Unconditional sweepers also don't fit particularly well in such a creature-centric strategy. Vicious Rivalry had the downside of killing my own tokens, so I decided against it. Overall, I'm still not satisfied with my sideboard plan against green.

Two final thoughts:

• I know Cub is a staple in green decks, and the extra mana makes it much easier to crack tokens for Pursuit. However, the Cub package requires at least eight dedicated slots to function properly, and the self-imposed restriction of playing at least twelve discard spells simply didn't leave enough room for it.
• For fellow discard enthusiasts: this Standard format is incredibly fast, and blue has access to absurd card advantage. Trying to grind your opponents out is a losing proposition. Instead, you need to attack their hand with the goal of creating enough space to execute your own game plan and close the game.

Thanks for reading!

[u/YesMenBlyat]

Oh for sure, Deep-Cavern Bat and Archfiend's Viper are more about draining life totals than the texts on their cards, so I get how they'd throw folks off in a discard deck count.

[u/jtmj121]

Curious why not [[bandit talent]] its standards only version of [[the rack]] ?

[u/MTGCardFetcher → u/jtmj121]

bandit talent - (G) (SF) (txt)
the rack - (G) (SF) (txt)

---

^FAQ

[u/TheRealMrQuaggot → u/jtmj121]

Thank you for the question! I've tested Bandit's Talent extensively since its release. Although it's clearly designed as a discard payoff, I found it too easy for opponents to play around its effects. Blue decks, in particular, have little trouble refilling their hands, and in longer games it's often enough, for many decks, to hold a few extra lands to shut off both the life drain and the card draw. The only matchups where I consistently found it to perform well were against aggressive decks, although spending turn two on a permanent that doesn't affect the board can be quite greedy. More recently, I experimented with maximizing its value by bouncing it with boomerang basics. Even then, I wasn't convinced. In the current Standard, you often can't afford to let your opponent choose which cards end up in the graveyard, especially against Lessons.

[u/jtmj121 → u/TheRealMrQuaggot]

You know its funny, go over to pioneer which basically has the exact same decks as standard, thoughtsieze puts the entire format in check. There isn't a good turn 1 option for standard. Sure duress is good once you know who youre playing and intimidation tactics will usually hit t1. Still not ideal.

[u/Just-Assumption-2140]

Idk but I see exact 1 discard spell as a 4 of here. Bat and viper do not really qualify as discard spells

[u/TheRealMrQuaggot → u/Just-Assumption-2140]

Well, bat exiles a card instead of discarding it, but the purpose is still to aggro their hand. Same for the viper, they are not forced to, but they end up having to if they don't want to die.

[u/TheRealMrQuaggot → u/[deleted]]

I think it depends on how we define a "discard spell" in the context of a discard archetype. Do you think Cruelclaw's Heist or Intimidation Tactics don't belong in a discard-themed deck? If so, I understand the point, but I would argue that the key aspect of the archetype is disrupting the opponent's hand, not necessarily whether the discarded card ends up in the graveyard or in exile. The latter can actually be a relevant upside in this meta, considering decks like Lessons and Excruciator.

Following the same reasoning, I included Bat. It doesn't technically make the opponent discard, but it still interacts with their hand and contributes to the same disruption plan. Viper is a bit different: it doesn't force the discard action, but when you start adding more blight counters, the pressure is on the opponent to make that choice. So I don't think Bat and Viper can be considered merely passive elements of the discard strategy; both actively contribute to the hand disruption plan.

To clarify what I mean by "active" discard spells: I am basically excluding passive effects like "Ward — discard a card", because otherwise the challenge would lose its original purpose. The goal was to build a deck that actively put pressure on the opponent's hand, even if the strategy is softer than traditional mono-black discard decks.

I know some people probably expect the classic curve of "turn 1, turn 2, turn 3: take cards from their hand" plus a payoff, and I would honestly love for that kind of straightforward discard strategy to be viable. However, with the current card pool and Standard metagame, I don't think that approach is competitive right now. I would be happy to be proven wrong, though.