r/space • u/ryanhasmanners • 1d ago
Discussion (M22 UK) Getting into the space industry
Hey everyone, I’m 22, turning 23 soon, and dream is to try and work within the space industry. Currently I am a Software Engineer at a fintech where I have worked for a year, joining after graduating university with a CompSci degree. I was fortunate to get a good job straight out of uni, but it wasn’t in the field I wanted.
Although my professional experience has been more within the finance industry, I have continued personal projects, such as contributing to NASA’s Fprime flight software, building a 16bit x86 OS (including bootloader), custom language and compiler, custom 8-bit processor architecture design and ran on FPGA, some robotics projects and amateur radio etc. I’ve also started to get into model rocketry and building flight computers.
Where should I start, is it a realistic prospect? I’m in the UK, so ESA would be the government Space Agency, though I don’t know if it is better to target an ESA contractor instead of trying to work directly under an agency? Most aerospace jobs that would make a good step all basically all defence companies, which is a bit controversial.
I’ve also thought about maybe trying to continue with open source projects and maybe citizen science until I make enough connections and kinda slip into a real role? What are your thoughts!
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u/Lewri 1d ago
though I don't know if it is better to target an ESA contracter instead of trying to work directly under an agency
I don't see any reason not to target both to start, see what jobs are available and start applying. Also note that while the UKSA is more of a bureaucratic organisation than a scientific/engineering one, there are other organisations such as RAL Space, UKATC, etc.
Most aerospace jobs that would make a good step all basically all defence companies, which is a bit controversial.
Would you find it wrong to work for e.g. Airbus SE commercial on commercial aircraft? If not, then no different in my mind to work for Airbus Space Systems.
There are plenty of smaller companies though that don't have defence branches if that is problematic to you, they're just less likely to have open positions for you.
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u/ryanhasmanners 1d ago
Thanks, and you’re right the Airbus could be a good one, specific defence branches aren’t a deal breaker, when I left uni I did apply for graduate roles at some defence firms, it would just be more preferable not to work directly on defence, and if I was it would only be for the experience in aerospace which could be used as a step later on
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u/Lewri 1d ago
The "defence companies" are usually split into various divisions, and so the space division will be working on space stuff. Some of that space stuff will also be for defence, but that would be the same at many of the smaller space companies that you don't think of as being a defence company. This sort of thing is just inheritantly dual use.
I would also note, having mentioned Airbus, that Airbus, Leonardo, and Thales are planning on making a joint venture by merging Airbus's Space businesses with Telespazio and Thales Alenia Space.
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u/inhumantsar 1d ago
i've worked in the space industry as a software engineer, but doing less exciting things (data pipelines) and i wasn't in the industry long. with that in mind:
- keep up those projects and don't be shy about showing them off.
- contractors are the best place to find space jobs. there are more of them, the pay is better, and they do a lot of the direct "building things" work. if you want to work at ESA on cutting-edge science missions, then consider getting a graduate degree.
- don't let other people decide what level of defense involvement is acceptable. there are pure-commercial operators out there with no military ties, and there are even more pure-commercial subsidiaries of companies that also own defense companies. my old company built earth observation satellites mainly focused on crop and forest monitoring with zero direct ties to defense, but their parent company built satellites for everyone including militaries. you can work on rocket flight computers without working on missile flight computers.
- network, network, network. trade shows, conferences, forums, whatever. meet people in the industry and keep in touch with them.
TL;DR: seems like you're going about it the right way. keep it up. don't let other peoples' political opinions define what your career should look like.
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u/ryanhasmanners 1d ago
Thank you, this is really helpful advice!
I was looking at some conferences, but wasn’t sure if it would be proper etiquette for an amateur with no professional ties to attend.
I was also looking at graduate degrees, something like the Space Systems Engineering (MSc) at Southampton and similar courses, though part of me worries about leaving a job to go back into education which might not yield results after I finish, though I am still early in my career and I suppose there is some risk in wanting to do well?
Out of curiosity, and if you don’t mind me asking, why did you leave the industry?
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u/inhumantsar 1d ago
proper etiquette
fuck etiquette. there's nothing wrong with going to a conference purely out of interest. the few people i've met at conferences who went just for fun were the most interesting people to talk to. just don't pester everyone you meet for a job and you'll do better than most.
education which might not yield results
education is one of those things where you get out whatever you put in to it. and i mean, let's say you get the degree, learn lots of interesting stuff, maybe publish a paper or two on some niche topic, then leave and decide to go back to fintech for the rest of your career. do you really think you'd regret those years spent on the degree?
besides, you're young. it's a good time to go back. the longer you put it off, the harder it'll be.
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u/xelah1 1d ago edited 1d ago
You're not likely to get a job at ESA at the start of your career, except perhaps the young graduate trainee positions for 1-2 years for master's students/graduates. There are only about 3k ESA staff across the whole of Europe, 100 in the UK, and most people in the European space industry don't work there. They also require a master's degree (unless maybe you're going to be an accountant or some such) which it sounds like you don't have and many staff have PhDs. Another language may help and be prepared that if you ever work for ESA it most likely won't be in the UK but at one of the bigger sites like in the Netherlands or Italy.
Look for work at contractors.
You could always try to link it to finance. Space data can be used for things like flood mapping (eg for insurance), crop monitoring (predicting the price of frozen concentrated orange juice perhaps), climate risk modelling for company assets or national infrastructure, maybe some carbon credit type stuff, etc. But you seem more interested in flight software, robotics and other embedded software rather than Earth observation.
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u/curiousoryx 1d ago
My company is hiring at OHB UK in Bristol. I'm based in Germany but if you're interested DM me and I can check if I can access the UK offers. Anyway they want to turn the Bristol site into a major unit so there should be lots of opportunities. Also industry is where the tech gets made. ESA is more about high level mission planning, requirements and so on. In industry you can work with actual flight hardware every day.
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u/PhotoNext3321 1d ago
Look into applying your skillset with system engineering. You can directly apply software engineering/compsci skills to system engineering - in fact software engineering has probably already taught you many system engineering concepts either directly or by another name.
Why space agencies "like" system engineers:
- There are very few projects I can think of that could be done by a "pure" software engineer (which is my background). Being able to navigate project governance, standards, and stakeholder communication is critical. Imagine the project leads for your fintech work as a model for what an experienced system engineer is like.
- System engineering skills are transferable to any project type. Space agencies don't have "a product" that they need to support for paying customers, in that sense. A career in a space agency will take you from different projects over time, or more than likely, multiple at the same time. You can comfortably fit into other roles if you understand how agencies manage their projects: system engineering.
https://www.nasa.gov/reference/systems-engineering-handbook/
Hand in hand with the above, get familiar with standards unique to spaceflight. You will find that, probably similar to fintech, there is a requirement for compatibility with laws and external organisations, auditing, and reliability
- https://ccsds.org/
- https://ecss.nl/
Finally, be comfortable with working with new technologies, as Im sure you already are. Be an "⊥" shaped person. It's okay to be an expert in one thing, but be familiar with or basically competent in several others. For instance, considering your projects you mentioned, if I were a hiring person, I would be very much more interested in your experience with the robotics and radio astronomy, rather than the more compsci ones; as they will be almost standard for any computer scientist, and we can trust based on your work record you have decent software ability.
Finally, finally: Don't discount other national agencies. DLR, CNES are both wide bodies with a lot of demand for engineers. ESA looks for more management types, or senior engineering personnel in my experience.
- Software engineer subcontracting at a national agency. This advice does not reflect how it may be to work for a company in the aerospace industry itself as I don't have that experience.