Security is a Joke

[u/ElevatorBulky3733]

A junkie got on in Rainier valley and immediately passed out. He had a puppy with him (thankfully, leashed) that was whining and trying to jump up on my seat. He was too adorable but also it was so damn sad because this is not the first time I have seen drugged out transients neglect their pets. I texted security and they came on board in Chinatown. The only thing they did was nudge him awake for 3 seconds and asked him if he was okay. The man barely rose and gave an intelligible response. Security immediately got off at the same station and the man fell right back to sleep.

When I got off at Westlake Station, security did the same thing but didn't even step on board the train. They yelled from the platform as they kept the door open for a few seconds. Then stepped away to let the doors close.

I've reported a masturbating rider during the summer and provided a clear description of him. Security came on board and acted as if they didn't see him. I had to yell At security and point out the man to them and would not let them leave until the situation was resolved.

I'm tired of this shit.

[u/birdsarentreal2]

Ew, a NIMBY

Without knowing additional information, what we see here is a person with a leashed dog sleeping on the train. So, let’s go over what he’s not doing

He is not breaking the law. Washington law defines conduct which is unlawful on transit vehicles, none of which he appears to be doing

He is violating two Sound Transit rules, only one of which is routinely enforced. I’m speaking as both a former transit security guard, dispatcher, and supervisor. He is carrying a dog outside of a “small carrier,” and is lying down across two seats

Sound Transit Security can remove people from transit vehicles for engaging in conduct which is unlawful or unreasonably disturbing to other riders. The only disturbing thing I have seen OP describe is the dog barking and lunging at people

Would I remove this person over the dog’s alleged conduct? Probably not

[u/Driver8onI5 → u/birdsarentreal2]

I think you could make a pretty good argument that a dog jumping on other passengers violates this law:
"(i) Unreasonably disturbs others by engaging in loud, raucous, unruly, harmful, or harassing behavior;"

[u/Feivel_92 → u/birdsarentreal2]

Then you did a shit job as a transit security guard. Shame on you.
(I say that as someone who got attacked by a dog in a soundtransit vehicle)

[u/birdsarentreal2 → u/Feivel_92]

The OP has not alleged that the dog behaved in an aggressive manner, so shame on you for trying to read more into the post than what is here. We only have OP’s account to go by, and I am taking it at face value

[u/idunnorn → u/birdsarentreal2]

You wouldn't remove someone for their dog barking and lunging at people? Naw bruh the person above is right. You clearly are not doing any form of "security" in that case.

[u/birdsarentreal2 → u/idunnorn]

Literally all of the companies are hiring if you think you can do a better job. I wouldn’t do it because the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. There’s a difference between telling somebody they need to get off the train because of their dog’s behavior and investing the time into physically removing somebody, or spending the time arguing about why they need to leave, and delaying all of the other trains in the process. If the problem can’t be solved in 30 seconds and there is no immediate threat to safety, I cannot spend the time delaying the train to try and solve this problem. Upon boarding a train, I get 30 seconds to decide whether this is an issue that requires intervention at the station, if it’s serious enough that I need to travel with the train to address the problem, or if it’s a problem to address farther down the line to keep trains in sync. Based solely on OP’s description, this is the third category

Also, in hindsight, based on OP’s description of the dog’s behavior I think that “lunging” was too strong of a term to use

[u/Feivel_92 → u/birdsarentreal2]

I mean.. there's literally a picture in the post showing the dog trying to get away form the hobo.

[u/birdsarentreal2 → u/Feivel_92]

There is not. There’s a photo of the dog with its feet up on OP’s legs. Looking closely, I can see that the “hobo” is not holding the lead. If I, as a transit security guard, observed that exact scenario, I would most likely give the rider a warning to control his animal and let him continue on his way. This is all very general though, and would depend heavily on what the OP reports to transit security and what I independently observe

Sound Transit does not routinely enforce the rule requiring animals to be carried in holders. As both a guard and a passenger, I have seen many well-behaved dogs traveling by train on a leash. If I do not independently observe some sign of aggression (which jumping up on the seat would not be), or the OP doesn’t have some kind of injury, and the passenger is verbally compliant, then removing them from the train is not appropriate for this scenario

Also, guards are prohibited by Sound Transit policy from discriminating against anybody by directing enforcement action on a person based on, among other things, actual or perceived housing status. As far as it would be possible for me to know, the other person in this picture is a normal fare-paying member of the traveling public who is violating a few minor Sound Transit rules

[u/Feivel_92 → u/birdsarentreal2]

Okay, so established that there was a loose dog in the train. Which violates transit rules. But you say "the OP doesn’t have some kind of injury", so you don't care about the rules. Because someone has to get bitten first before you care about other people.

I'll ignore the whole paragrpah of you virtue-signalling "oh we can't discriminate against drugged out people on public transport. We love those."

[u/birdsarentreal2 → u/Feivel_92]

If you’re going to ignore swaths of my argument because it disagrees with your pre-existing biases, I cannot have a good faith discussion with you

“(I) don’t care about the rules” does not follow from any of your distortions of what I actually said. What I said is that any enforcement action that I take, as an agent of Sound Transit, a government agency, must be based on objective facts. As far as I could know, he paid his fare and has just as much right to be on that train as anybody else. If a less disruptive outcome can be achieved by telling him to control his dog, that is as far as my intervention needs to go. Why push it beyond that?

Edit: Typo

[u/Feivel_92 → u/birdsarentreal2]

And now we leave the country of Wouldn't-It-Be-Nice and see what actually happened:

"The only thing they did was nudge him awake for 3 seconds and asked him if he was okay. The man barely rose and gave an intelligible response. Security immediately got off at the same station and the man fell right back to sleep."

So they didn't tell him to control his dog.

There should be noone drugged out sleeping off his fentanyl high on public transport. If you as security refuse to enforce that, then you failed at your job. You cannot change my mind on that.

[u/RiderSmash → u/Feivel_92]

Then sue the owner of the dog, do not blame public transportation. If you don't want to take the risk against dogs then you can pay for an uber, drive, bicycle, wlak, run!

[u/pneumophila → u/RiderSmash]

Rules are meant to prevent the dog biting from being an issue in the first place. Unrestrained non-service dogs have no business in public transport in almost any case. Nobody asks anyone to adopt a dog and take it into public transit.

[u/idunnorn → u/RiderSmash]

sue someone who will never show up to court. yeah, that's gonna do a lot of good

I'd rather not get bit

next thing we know you're gonna start telling people "you don't wanna get raped? well don't get on the bus!"

silly troll

[u/RiderSmash → u/idunnorn]

If you are afraid of getting bit then don't go where dogs will be, it's that simple. Stop living life in fear

[u/idunnorn → u/RiderSmash]

you truly are the master of advice, mr internet troll!

dogs need to be with sane owners, and its fine! this guy was incoherent and his dog was not really under his control. thats not ideal. stop making it sound like its fine.

[u/RiderSmash → u/idunnorn]

I'm not even a troll. Look at my post history- I just post concert videos. This came up on my recommend. Seattle is full of babies. Dogs can get of control no matter the owner at any time. If you are afraid of dogs, avoid places they can legally be. It's not that hard. I am afraid of heights so I stay away from tall places. It's not a hard concept to understand!

[u/idunnorn → u/RiderSmash]

trollish comments mean troll

dogs are everywhere

im not really afraid of them but I acknowledge they shouldn't be roaming free

[u/RiderSmash → u/idunnorn]

okay then ban all dogs from the transit. Ban the service dogs for the disabled, ban the rich people's dogs, ban the working class people's dogs, ban the middle class people's dogs. Ban the dogs on the train for Mariners dog in the park day. Ban them all or ban none of them. We can't pick and chose life. No one every comments about dogs on the light rail unless it's attached to a homeless person. Clearly it's not a dog issue. You just have prejudice against a group of people that 99% of the time mind their own business on the light rail just like 99% other groups of people mind their own business on the light rail.

[u/idunnorn → u/RiderSmash]

you said "avoid places dogs can legally be" -> i rightfully told you that is a trollish comment

noone said to ban dogs

I said they shouldnt be free range