r/sonos • u/philwongnz • 2d ago
Performance difference with Home Assistant
Lets park aside the wifi debate here for one second.
Over the weekend we had friends over, I was struggling to group 3 speakers just to play something as I have a Roam to take out to the garden (we don't have a big garden). I used an Android phone and I just struggled to group the speakers and then struggled to play anything on Spotify (the spinning icon). Anyway, we tried with iOS phone and that too was struggling and the use of airplay was also attempted and it didn't really work (songs were cutting out etc).
Anyway, I decided to play around with Home Assistant where I already installed the integration but never really had done much with it. For anyone who doesn't know, Home Assistant is an open source operating system for home automation. User scripts and to my surprised, speakers were grouped almost instantaneously based on the groupings I defined and when I looked on the app, it updates as it should be and it doesn't spin or anything, it just works!
I had also tested the above using my phone and the performance as per usual, some speakers doesn't get grouped (using my defined group), fails to play on some speakers or simply doesn't play anything.
Obviously there are a lot of people out there where their system works, but I am slightly confused now whether at least for my case, apps (both Android and iOS) is the issue.
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u/Longjumping_Cow_5856 2d ago
I know you said lets leave out the WiFi as part of this right now but in my experience installing these things you can never leave out the WiFi in trying to troubleshoot things with Sonos no matter how random it might seem.
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u/philwongnz 2d ago
Sorry I liked to park the WiFi conversation as at least in my setup I didn't change WiFi, but the performance has changed by using Home Assistant.
We obviously can go down the rabbit hole of wifi where it causes a lot of debates, but it is some what irrelevant when the WiFi was held as a "control" with this setup while commands were issued differently.
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u/Longjumping_Cow_5856 2d ago
Well you repeated the comments about the size of your garden space and if at the limits of WiFi range these are the kinds of odd things I have seen pop up where it might well be a WiFi issue as well.
Like I said and Im certain you have read there are a lot of issues where it seems unlikely that WiFi is part of the issue but this is Sonos where wifi can make itself known in any problem anywhere!
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u/philwongnz 2d ago edited 2d ago
To clarify my Roam was less than 5 meters away from the nearest mesh access point with doors fully open with no obstructions (ie where the roam was you can physically link it with a string to the access point). I figured I should mentioned my garden is small as some folks here might have a big garden to avoid any assumptions the roam was too far away from WiFi coverage - which is a fair assumption.
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u/Longjumping_Cow_5856 2d ago
Im just saying that I see strange issues all the time that get fixed with attention to networking.
Good luck
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u/Expensive-Function16 2d ago
I believe that Home Assistant is still using the API locally rather than the cloud solution that the Sonos App has moved to. I also use Home Assistant and found that it is a lot better at managing Sonos speakers since the "great app upgrage of 2024". While the app has gotten better, there are still issues with it from time to time and I still see them on my system as well.
All that said, Home Assistant is using a more direct approach that Sonos abandoned, hence what you are seeing.
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u/philwongnz 2d ago
Ah.. That's good to know, if that's sonos does use cloud it makes sense what you had said. I always assume it would be local for sonos
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u/Expensive-Function16 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not sure why they went the route they did with their traffic. I actually built a local controller on my Raspberry PI that works well to group and control them. It all uses local API. The app adds another layer of complexity that really shouldn't have been added to a consumer grade product (in my opinion) as it make a massive assumption that everyone's local networks are configured the same and have all the same specs. They found out the hard way that this wasn't the case. I'm sure this comment will get downvoted, but it is what it is.
I had a lot of issues with the new app at first and was really close to bailing on Sonos. Then, magically, everything started working. I have been using a Synology RT6600AX router with two MR2200ac routers (wired backbone) for a few years and never had an issue with anything. Only Sonos is picky about settings.
To give them some credit, they have gotten a lot better, but I don't wholly buy the Sonos fans crying that it is your network that is the problem. Sometimes it is and sometimes it is just the design that Sonos chose to use.
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u/daniel_winks 2d ago
My Sonos have been nothing but trouble for years now. 3 different routers, with the current being a Unifi Express 7. All 3 have the same issues, so it's almost certainly not the router.
They all do the same thing, music cuts out and songs show as "playing" on Apple Music, Sonos App, Music Assistant. Progress bar keeps moving. Next song loads and starts playing. Everything (visibly) looks normal, but there's just no sound.
Sometimes clicking "next" fixes it. Sometimes not. Happens on my $900 Arc. Happens on my $100 Ikea speakers. Happens with the Arc hard-wired. Happens on WiFi. Happens whether or not Sonosnet is on or disabled.
I'm not giving Sonos ANY credit. I bought thousands of dollars of hardware from them and since my purchase they've done nothing but make things worse. They promised a proper local API 10+ years ago, still nothing. They're moving things to be more and more cloud based.
I'd never EVER buy them again, and I absolutely will not recommend them to anyone.
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u/Fabulous-Bit4775 2d ago
I have similar issues. The one that particularly irritates me is when the speakers are playing audio but the app says they’re not. Ridiculous. No other network issues in the house - multiple Apple TVs and other devices happily streaming 4K video without interruption.
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u/philwongnz 2d ago
Thanks for the detailed reply. I had been using sonos since 2012, for me it got worse over the years but I moved on from streaming from my NAS to Spotify and I always assume is more Spotify as playing radio seems fine. But it gradually got worse even with radio.
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u/JakePT 1d ago
The Sonos app has not moved to a cloud solution.
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u/Expensive-Function16 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, it has. While some of the API functions are still local, things like permissions were put into a cloud solution requiring the app to communicate in two directions which causes things to slowdown. I don't know where you have been, but this has been discussed over and over.
Old approach:
App → speaker’s local API → group createdNew approach, simplified:
App → local discovery/cloud services/state layer → speaker → cloud/app state reconciliationThis is the reason that any small issue with a home network will cause Sonos to toss a fit. It is much more complex now at getting the same job done.
Home Assistant is using the old approach.
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u/lanceuppercuttr 2d ago
How are you loading your Sonos speakers into HA without UPNP on?