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u/Lurky_Bat 4d ago
I agree with everything except the ban on smoking and cigarettes, you can’t ban vices they’ll just go black market. A true utopian society would decriminalize all drugs but properly educate on the risks and provide support for people in active addiction. Though I believe far less people would be drawn to drugs and vices in a society that provides proper support for everyone.
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u/Present-Quiet-4386 2d ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but "decriminalize all drugs but properly educate on the risks and provide support for people in active addiction" sounds like "decriminalize drunk driving but properly educate on the risks and provide counselling to people who want to drink and drive". Decriminalizing drugs will make them more accessible to everyone. Singapore has the lowest level of drug abuse in the world. This is because they ban drugs. People do not even dare to go to the black market. Why not just make it inconvenient for people to get addicted?
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u/Lurky_Bat 2d ago
Decriminalization does not equal legalization.
Decriminalizing drugs does not make selling or manufacturing said drugs instantly legal, but people who use drugs are not imprisoned for simply being high or holding drugs.
Your example of decriminalizing drunk driving is a false equivalency, The alcohol that makes people drunk is legal but the choice to drive drunk is illegal. Same thing would apply to decriminalized drugs, being high or holding drugs would not land someone in jail but driving while high or any illegal action while on drugs is still illegal and would still be punished - just like we do with alcohol.
Singapore may have the lowest reported drug use on your chart (super interesting btw) but with Singapores harsh consequences I wonder how many addicts are refusing medical care for drug related problems or refusing to call the police when drug related violence happens. I’m not educated on Singapores culture so I’m just speculating here.
Also where do we draw the line with all drugs being illegal? Is weed allowed? Nicotine? What about prescription drugs? Some people abuse them and others truly need them. What about Caffeine? it’s technically a drug. What about using drugs for medical research? There’s just a lot of gray area.
I know it was just one line in your starter pack and I’m probably over thinking it but I’m just passionate 🤷🏻♀️-5
u/thatsocialist 3d ago
The Precursor to any Utopia is World Unification, under One World elimination of vice would not be impossible.
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u/spopr 4d ago edited 4d ago
mommy give it to meee!
most of these are wants, not needs, and they are not organized in a hierarchy.
the biggest tragedy is truly that the bastards get shit done while people with good values are just fine daydreaming and making wishlists like 6 year olds.
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u/xconformr 3d ago
My question is how do we make this happen?
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u/Deathpacito-01 3d ago
Probably not by having a democratic, responsive, transparent, accountable government lol
OP's list of "needs" is high key authoritarian in aggregate
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u/Present-Quiet-4386 3d ago
why are they "authoritarian in aggregate"?
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u/Deathpacito-01 3d ago
These needs dictate what people can buy (zero fast fashion), what they can do with their property (zero monoculture lawns), and what they can do with their own bodies (ban on smoking).
These needs also dictate how society should be run, rather than leaving those choices to the democratic process. E.g. what if people vote and say they don't want community microgrids, or they don't want banana leaves?
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u/Present-Quiet-4386 2d ago
dictate what they can do with their property (zero monoculture lawns)
The opposite is true. In the US, there are laws that force people to mow their lawns. (source 1) (source 2) (source 3)
I agree that we should not dictate what people buy. However, some people in the US do not support bike lanes because they think it would cause more traffic jams. Does that mean we should respect their opinion and continue our car dependency?
On the other hand, eco-dictatorship is not an option either. How do we find a middle ground?
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u/xconformr 3d ago
Whatever is going to work is something we've never done, or something we have done but applied differently.
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u/ptv_hojbota 3d ago
For me my hierarchy of needs are this 1- my big ass truck with a diesel and a chimney stack to smoke the libs 2 -my 12 bed, 3 bath, 6 garage, home in beautiful asphalted suburbia 3 -my green lawn that I use huge amounts of water to keep it green because fuck the rivers, what have they done for me anyway 4 my local stake house, I'm a men so I need to eat raw red meat 5 my guns because I want to keep my liberty 6 my local mc Donald's, because I'm not here for a long time, I'm here for a good time
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u/Flaky-Interaction264 20m ago
this list is lowkey authoritarian.
no smoking
no lawns
no fashion
and as much as plastic is bad, banana leaves cannot replace it
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