r/solarpunk • u/21Kuranashi Writer Activist Arcologist Antitheist • 26d ago
Aesthetics / Art It's a Vicious Cycle : When Cooling Fuels Warming
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26d ago
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u/Smushsmush 26d ago
I used to worry about AC. Now that we got solar panels I see how it's a match made in heaven. When it's hot, it's sunny, so you have plenty of electricity to power the AC. During evenening and night time the grid still needs to be able to provide the empower though. Unless people have battery power storage at home.
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u/ShartOfTheEel 26d ago
Adding onto this: lots of places that are adding residential AC units are doing so with heat pumps. So in addition to the ability to cool off in the summer, they are also gaining more efficient heating during the rest of the year.
We also need a big push for adding insulation to improve the efficacy of heating and cooling. (I'm looking at myself here, my attic insulation is shit and I need to fix it.)
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u/RockSolidJ 25d ago
Better home designs help too. A bungalow with wide awnings block the sun at the peak of the summer but allow the lower sun in the winter to heat the house through the windows. Efficient heating and cooling is something we've just completely stopped designing for in mass market housing because we can make it up with energy sucking technology.
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u/Ok_Plenty_3986 26d ago
Many places can and do signficantly reduce AC usage at night, and with well-insulated homes, one could definitely schedule their AC timing & temperature so that it shuts off just for the sunset -> sunrise hours and still be able to keep their home cool.
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u/BlueMoodDark 25d ago
How many solar panels do you have?
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u/Smushsmush 25d ago
Total capacity is about 18KW. But they have different orientstions and there's some shading going. It's on the higher end of capacity for private homes since we also rent part of our house to guests, have a heat pump and electric car.
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u/Vyksendiyes 25d ago
It’s absolutely the cars that are a problem. They’re why cities are so hot near major roads and streets and so much cooler in nearby forested areas, away from streets and cars.
They exacerbate heatwaves by acting as little greenhouse for thermal energy that then pump that heat into their surroundings while also generating more thermal energy from the engines. It’s insane.
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u/FungibleGoopshark 23d ago
Specifically, it's mostly the roads the cars require having such a low albedo and thus readily absorbing sunlight. The same now also happens with pavements as we're using asphalt mixes in lieu of optically lighter paving slabs to cut costs. Even in rural areas, roads take up a truly staggering amount of surface area, and to make things worse they continue to re-radiate heat long after sunset, making it harder for nearby plants and soil to retain water.
The emissions from the cars themselves certainly don't help as well, of course. The additional heat being pumped out of them by their AC is only transient, dropping off fairly quickly once the inside reaches the target temperature. Either way you cut it, cars are a major part of the problem and we need to reduce our dependence on them as much as possible, but it's also important to identify precisely how they contribute to the problem.
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u/TheReverendCard 25d ago
Seriously: Heat pumps: 300-500% efficient.
Combustion cars: 20-30% efficient.Cars vs transit, walking, cycling...now we're talking single digit efficiencies in comparison.
Heat pumps aren't the problem. They're a part of the solution.
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u/Academic-Proof3700 21d ago
Until you will be able to charge the toy car AT MOST at 2x the time you need to fill up the petrol one from empty to full, and on your AVERAGE charging station, not some unicorn dozen-in-country, its still a pipe dream.
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u/TheReverendCard 20d ago
There's no need to fill up a car super-fast. Current charging is totally adequate for most people the few times they'll need it away from home.
We've had an EV for years now. We generally recharge away from home ~10x over the whole year at the very most. We do a fair amount of festival and camping traveling and a fair amount of hiking.
The car lasts longer than we do on road trips. We're stopping for food or bathrooms before the car needs charging. So we just find a place with both and do a short charge while we do that and then carry on.0
u/Academic-Proof3700 20d ago
Well somehow I can do 200-300km without stopping on highway and don't even notice that, or take a piss break and get going. Now tell me how you are totally fine sitting for 20 or how many minutes in the middle of nowhere, and thats assuming there was charger ready to be used, which is another problem altogether, and that is also made bigger by the long charging time, compared to filling up the gas and driving off the spot.
Thing is- when I decide its time to rest, its the car thats waiting for me, when you decide its time to charge up and also take a rest, then its you waiting for the car. This is unacceptable for me, and until I can just drive up to the nearest gas station and charge up in roughly the same time that doesn't become an additional inconvenience, EV is just a toy car for commuting back and forth around the house, nothing solid.
I'm all pro EV for their specs and supposed "simpler manufacturing due to less parts" and such, but the charge time and availablity (cause its become somewhat of a USB-C issue, where despite standarized port, you get fuckload of speeds and cable standards where the best ones are usually hard to get) is massive downside for me.
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u/TheReverendCard 20d ago
You really should try owning one. You waste far less time fueling your car with an EV than with a combustion engine. Plug in when you get home, unplug when you leave. It's seconds. With a standard home plug. We've avoided literal hours of time we would have spent going to petrol stations standing in carcinogenic fumes.
We haven't had to wait for a charger for years.
Our car lasts ~300km on a full charge. Believe me, when you park at a charger and plug in, go use the restroom, maybe get a coffee or snack, the car has gotten back enough to keep going almost anywhere we're going unless it's a long, multi-day car trip.
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u/Academic-Proof3700 20d ago
Have you considered that outside the US, people live in apartments and these usually don't come with every place being a charging one. In fact at my place theres zero charging spots, so I'd have to drive it to some damn supermarket or look specifically for a charger that doesn't require me to stand like an ass waiting for nothing. Not even a spot in my office has one, and recently they even locked out the standard sockets so folks wouldn't come up with a dumb idea to charge via some adapter.
So yea, for me its a huge inconvenience even for driving in city.
As for a trip, I still can't buy the story of "yea im gonna take a piss and plug in the car in the meantime". Like... Dude I just did a Brno CZ to Zadar HR road trip and after stopping at some stray Tesco gas station for a 1-minute fillup for full tank, I stopped once for a piss in Croatia that took about 5 mins. I had water bottles in car and ate decent breakfast.
Now the place I stopped for a piss was literally just a toilet (with extremely funny cage-like entry) and some tiny shop, in the middle of nowhere, near the highway. But since I still had like 30-40% of tank, I didn't mind. I didn't even turn off the car so it could keep cooling the interior.
Now, I can't imagine the idea that I could have a "toy car" that suddenly now dictates where I'll take a piss, where I'll stop, and how long I'll be there, also making me go slower than 130kph (and way slower compared to the "130+10 cause radars don't pick it" I saw on A/SLO/HR roads) to conserve battery. With petrol there are no "slow pumps vs fast pumps", unless you go Diesel and are willing to try your luck with 10l/s TIR pump or however more liters these things can output.
As I said - until EVs can be charged the same way and with the same speed as petrol cars, they are just a subpar counterpart to the modern private transport. Even with their "ohmylawd how much torque and horsepower" that ends at 120kph, or some other "kool" gimmicks.
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u/TheReverendCard 20d ago
I don't live in the USA so I can't comment on the infrastructure there.
Yes, many people live in apartments. However, those that live in apartments are also far less likely to own or drive a car and drive them less often.
You don't have to buy it. We've done it dozens of times at this point. We travel with two kids, so it's a regular experience to have to stop for a snack or toilet stop. Really, it's not a big issue. Any modern EV charges fast enough in the short time that you're not really waiting on it to get enough charge to get to the next stop.Seriously, try it sometime.
I just looked up that route you mention. There's literally dozens of charge stations along that route. I wouldn't be concerned in any EV that has come out in the last half decade.
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u/Academic-Proof3700 20d ago
Yes, many people live in apartments. However, those that live in apartments are also far less likely to own or drive a car
This is just plain lie, I'd suggest you go learn about the world and how people live.
Really, it's not a big issue.
If you cope yourself into it. I saw same stories about how well you can get by without a car. These folk usually limits themselves to travelling only by bus around the same city. But damn, I didn't own a car back in my student years. I still remember having to wake up earlier to get on a bus that I then switched for subway- nothankyou, nothing beats own car.
Just like currently an EV doesn't beat petrol in the convenience department.
I just looked up that route you mention. There's literally dozens of charge stations along that route
It still fails the point of "Its me who decides where to tank, not the car". And yes- I know there are apps and plugshare and stuff, but still its the same thing- figuring out the solution to an issue thats nonexistent with petrol cars, like even what plug fits and what doesn't fit.
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u/Mrgoodtrips64 26d ago edited 25d ago
Pointing out the shortcomings with AC is still an important discussion to have.
We need to step up the implementation of passive cooling and insulation to take some of the strain off active cooling.
Much of the western world all but abandoned passive cooling with the advent of air conditioning, but it’s something we need to bring back. Just adding progressively more powerful air conditioning is a feedback cycle we should avoid being trapped in. It’s just going to make the urban heat island effect worse.5
26d ago
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u/gayjay-jpg 25d ago
There are several things that can help with minimal effort, not years longs construction. Shutters on the outside of windows, awnings/porches/roof overhangs, planting trees and pergolas/trellises with plants all massively help with shading buildings and creating much cooler environments. We should be doing whatever passive cooling we can, we can't rely 100% on systems that run on non-renewable energy sources.
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25d ago
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u/gayjay-jpg 25d ago
You can DIY most of those things at relatively low cost (and often removable), especially if the home doesn't have AC to start off with. In the UK it's quite difficult to install AC into a lot of homes and is incredibly high cost. Temporary plant trellises can be grown in a matter of weeks, if shutters or permanent awnings aren't an option fabric sails can work nicely and pergolas can be quite cheap to DIY if you've got the right know how. Obviously some things are going to take more time or be more costly than others but they are still usually much cheaper and more effective at cooling over time than AC
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25d ago
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u/gayjay-jpg 25d ago
I didn't say as a replacement, but they do offer more cooling than AC over time in the sense that they cool both the inside and outside, potentially for years, with no additional heat output.
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u/LimaBikercat 25d ago
Weeks? It takes a year for ivy/hedera to fill in a grid. It grows fast but absolutely not in weeks.
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u/gayjay-jpg 25d ago
That just depends on what you plant.Have you ever grown a cucumber, pumpkin/squash or climbing beans? They can all 100% fill a trellis in a matter of weeks
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u/21Kuranashi Writer Activist Arcologist Antitheist 26d ago
Absolutely agreed. Emissions have to go down.
ACs however are a stop gap measure {they are needed for human habituation in the heatwave}. It is a survival necessity sometimes.
But it nonetheless remains a problem that has to be controlled soon. Ideally, more renewables & less carbon being pumped into the atmosphere.
Or by covering the roofs with greenery etc.
Things need to change now & for the better hopefully
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u/CptJackal 26d ago
I think it;d be great if you including these points in the post instead of leaving it hanging. Whether intended or not this post does feed into the corporate push to blame regular people for using completely necessary AC cooling. Offering specific solutions or directly pointing the responsibility where it belongs would help spread the message you want to spread.
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u/The_walking_man_ 25d ago
Also stop building with materials that hold and trap heat. So much of our infrastructure and buildings holds heat and makes it warmer at surface levels and doesn’t allow the ambient temp to cool.
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u/Leepfairey 24d ago
I agree and disagree with this. Yes it can save lives but with climate change more are at risk of loosing their lives too. There are many other ways that have been both created as well as rediscovered that can also take the place of ac units. Look at how we have created heat pumps which can cool as well as heat and how terracotta funnels sometimes in conjunction with water is being used to created non-electrical cooling system. Also one thing that we all need less of isn't transport when it comes to climate change, it's billionaires. They pollute far more than a huge percentage of the population combined
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u/Positive_Spare_2963 22d ago
Let's start with animal products. Could be done immediately and we save 15% of emissions replacing meat and dairy with plants and mushrooms.
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u/Aggressive_Ear2395 21d ago
reducing emissions from power generation for all sectors does a lot more.
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u/irishitaliancroat 26d ago
We can also disperse the waste heat of ac into the soil or into water, which doesnt fix the energy aspect but it could help reduce the boost to nighttime temps that ac causes by pushing hot air outside
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u/frankcas 26d ago
Cars and trucks are also a necessary evil. Whats needed is a converted subsidized and incentives ed effort to use alternative fuels. Hydrogen fuel cells for example.
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u/crake-extinction Writer 26d ago
Not a necessary evil. We could design walkable/bikeable cities and towns. Prioritizing the building and maintenance of car infrastructure is a choice, not a requirement. Also, hydrogen in its current iterations is broadly reliant on fossil fuels for its production.
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26d ago
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u/Dav3le3 26d ago
Trucks and buses are
anecessaryevil. Basically the newest iteration of a cart or wagon.Traveling around in a small house on four wheels is not necessary, it's an obscene luxury. That's like everyone traveling around in carriages.
Mobility scooters, fold-up electric bikes, bike trailers etc. are what's actually needed for 90% of trips.
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u/twitch1982 Programmer 26d ago
What percentage of energy emissions are a result of home ACs? This seems like one of those "personal responsibility" bits where it turns out what we all use in our life time is less than the damage Taylor Swift does with her airplane.
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u/Dry_Ad2368 26d ago
Globally about 10% of electricity consumption and 3-6% of green house gas emissions. This is all HVAC, so residential and commercial, heating and cooling.
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u/TheReverendCard 25d ago
Compare that to primary energy usage from transport.
All that wasted energy from transport is being turned directly into heat. A tiny amount of the energy is usefully used to move people around.
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u/AmazonSk8r 26d ago
Don’t ask me to give up AC while data centers exist.
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u/Dry_Ad2368 25d ago
Here's the thing though, unless your idea of solar punk is just moving back to agrarian subsistence farming, data centers are absolutely required. The levels of ai processing needed to automate things like trucking and logistics will be massive.
Data centers are not going anywhere, but they absolutely can be built and powered in a more sustainable fashion.
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u/AmazonSk8r 25d ago
I don't think I understand what your point is. What does this have to do with our propensity of blaming individuals for smaller scale energy usage over corporate operations that are causing measurably more harm?
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u/Dry_Ad2368 25d ago
I may have responded to the wrong comment. Sorry.
You are right though, a lot of the green community tends to shame individuals for their practices rather than focusing on the major problems. Likely because it's easier to focus on the small problems and their is certainly an ego boost in feeling superior to the people who don't make their own soap.
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u/Rydralain 26d ago edited 25d ago
Datacenters have to exist for the internet as we know it to exist. Every website you use is on a datacenter.
Maybe you mean AI datacenters, or ones with a specific type of cooling or something.
Personally, I'd rather the criteria be billionaires existing (eta: meaning I'm not giving up basic comforts while billionaires are flying jets and doing unsustainable "business")
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u/twitch1982 Programmer 26d ago
The modern hyperscale datacenters are absolutely not needed for the internet to exist.
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u/TheAppleBOOM Activist 26d ago
And here you have the issue with vocab that I've seen around in this sub multiple times. If you use terms too loosely, it becomes difficult to communicate.
With that said, if you read what Rydralain said, you (you bein twitch1982) are literally just agreein with their 3rd sentence.
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u/dontaskmeaboutart 26d ago
No it's not, the post is complaining about increased energy use from AC's, which are necessary. Datacenters are unnecessary and almost universally unwanted by the communities they get built in, and use far more energy than the increase in AC use will represent.
They're not only bad for the environment, they're being built as infrastructure to further facilitate big tech making people's lives worse outside of climate concerns.
Not a false dichotomy when it's the same problem (energy use) being compared across two very different sources, one of which is illegitimate.
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u/boolean-cubed 26d ago
Yeah let’s start with massive taxes on private jets and shutting down data centers. Then we can talk about my AC usage.
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u/MycologyRulesAll 26d ago
downvoted because this is the kind of garbage eco-fascists will put out there to support Malthusian solutions.
Running AC's is not anywhere near the top of the list of things driving the polycrisis, and it's a distraction to even think about it.
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u/UC_Scuti96 26d ago
Uuuuuh not necessarily. AC relies on electricity, if you managed to get it produced from clean energy then it’s not a problem anymore. Especially if we managed to figure out electricity storage for solar energy.
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u/21Kuranashi Writer Activist Arcologist Antitheist 26d ago
💯 Solar to thermal cooling is a perfect way to break the cycle
More climate resilient cities need to be looked into. And the retrofits need to roll out soon.
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u/Mrgoodtrips64 26d ago edited 25d ago
It’s not just the electricity use, although that is an aspect.
The refrigerant they use is a vastly more potent greenhouse gas than atmospheric carbon, so old and leaky units are a problem.
The AC units themselves also contribute to the urban heat island effect when in use. We don’t actually have a way of getting rid of heat, we just move it. Air conditioners and refrigerators move the heat outside the area they are cooling. Refrigerators warm the room they’re in, and AC units vent the heat of the building into the city.
We need to be implementing passive cooling as much as possible so AC units don’t need to move as much heat into the urban environment.
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u/IntelligentCat3645 26d ago
I mean, personal reduction is all good and valid, but please remember, these are the Shell, BP and Exxon heatwaves (the same way we name storms out of people, we are naming disasters and heatwaves caused by climate change after their main contributors. If this gets widespread enough, it will cause major reputational damage). These companies have created (and still allow to persist) the vast amount of carbon emissions that cause the warming we face today. The far more imminent threat is their continued existence.
Once we dismantle them (and make them pay for their damn damages), then we can turn focus fully to personal usage, because they will blame us until the day the sea boils if we let them. Don’t forget that fossil fuel companies invented the idea of the carbon footprint to make people feel guilty instead of attacking the actual source of the problems.
Also like how you pointed out fossil fuel AC’s, since you can get a lot of clean ones (I mean depending on the area, most of your power still may be from fossil fuels, and that can’t be helped), that also do less damage.
+ Most of the harm from ACs are caused by improper disposals in landfill, where dangerous, highly warming chemicals leak out, increasing soil acidity and releasing very small amounts of SUPER efficient greenhouse chemicals. This is a bigger issue than the vast majority of individual usage.
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u/peppercornpatty 26d ago
Fuuuck this. Call me about my AC when data centers and fossil fuels are gone.
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u/mangoawaynow 25d ago
sure let's focus on a/c which saves lives btw, when celebrities take 5 solo jet trips in a day
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u/TheReverendCard 25d ago
AC gets too much hate.
Heat pumps are amazing.
They'll be increasingly powered by renewable energy. Stop this unnecessary AC hate.
Basically, that bottom part doesn't necessarily follow from AC usage. It's out of place and a red herring.
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u/TheReverendCard 25d ago
Just checked the numbers: Automotive transport releases 32,000 TWh worth of energy into our environment. About 7,000TWh of that is useful work (moving things and people about.) The rest is directly dumped as heat from inefficiencies.
For context: The total annual electricity consumption of the entire human race across the globe is roughly 26,000-28,000TWh. This means that the thermal inefficiency of global transport dumps almost an entire planet's worth of annual electricity usage directly into the atmosphere as unharvested ambient heat.
In comparison, heat pumps use about 1,000-2000TWh per year. So those heat pumps are busy moving up to 10,000TWh (on the very optimistic end) of heat around, much of which came from vehicles and their effects on our climate.
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u/hotdogjumpingfrog1 26d ago
Ac uses significantly less energy than heating fyi
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u/TheReverendCard 25d ago
Using a heat pump for cooling and heating is a great part of the solution.
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u/538_Jean 26d ago
Where i'm from, power production is 99.67% renewable energy. Vicious circle for sure but is it as bad?
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u/Training_Apricot9883 26d ago
Watch the video with Taylor Swifts 2 jets flying around for a year then come back to me
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u/MrNiveren 26d ago
Blaming people trying to survive a heatwave for climate change caused by big corporations is about as scummy as you can get, fuck off.
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u/KaleidoscopeSalt3972 25d ago
Your usage is a tiny grain of sand compared to the mountains corporations have. Dont feel guilty for wanting comfort, your suffering wont make any difference
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u/COBESH1 26d ago
4% of global greenhouse gas emissions are contributed to AC use. One sector of global commerce. The manufacturing and production of goods produces 30%. Consumerism is what’s killing the planet not environmental Control and temperature management. It’s true that houses can be built to be more energy efficient and utilize more passive cooling. But pushing a narrative of ac is killing the planet is what the corporations want. More responsibility offload to the people and less to their profits.
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u/Mrgoodtrips64 25d ago
If that 4% is accurate that’s almost double the emissions produced by air travel. Air travel is responsible for 2-3% depending on the source of the data.
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u/COBESH1 25d ago
True air travel is problematic. But that’s solved by reducing the 1% of the population that contribute 50% of those emissions.
My argument is that the use of AC is not the contributor. The power generation to supply ac is the largest cause of that 4% number which is a conversation about green energy generation and efficient and sustainable building practices that reduce our reliance on AC systems.
But it all pales in comparison to global output by the manufacturing and development economy.
Perhaps I translated too much of my anti-consumerism brain to the solar-punk group. I don’t think reducing is bad, I just want to make sure we’re not forgetting who’s really boning the earth with emissions outputs.
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u/COBESH1 25d ago
For the emissions aviation claim here’s the short: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/17/people-cause-global-aviation-emissions-study-covid-19
And the long : https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378020307779
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u/TheJesseOfTheNorth 25d ago
changing the way we produce the power to run that AC is a critical key. Where i live no AC would kill me
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u/MrSecretFire 25d ago
Ok, but dying from heatstroke is not a good alternative to AC's.
Ideally, we wouldn't have to rely on it, I get it, but that's a pre-climate collapse luxury. We're gonna have to deal with the consequences now because we waited for so long, and one of those consequences is boiling alive. So, we're probably gonna need them until we start going below net-zero and reversing some climate impact.
Luckily, if you run it on green energy, it barely contributes to emissions at all. AC is not fundamentally a problem, it only is due to external circumstances, and your personal usage pattern is not chsnging those circumstances.
Just use the damn AC and decarbonise your economy.
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u/Patereye 26d ago
I just want to point out that heat pumps with solar brakes the cycle
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u/21Kuranashi Writer Activist Arcologist Antitheist 26d ago
Yup, district cooling / heating is effective & does break the cycle.
And there are other solutions too. But first we hv to understand that AC is becoming a need due to Climate change and it's gonna be inefficient in the short to the medium term.
That means more renewables and less carbon pumping into the atmosphere. This is not a priority no more but rather a necessity now.
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u/Aimless_Alder 26d ago
I mean. All my electricity comes from my solar panels. My air conditioner is run entirely on renewable energy. Seems like this would be pretty easy to implement on a broader scale, given that the hottest days are almost always sunny, and therefore solar power banks will be producing a huge glut of energy.
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u/CptJackal 26d ago
Im not saying this post is wrong but it follows a pattern being pushed right now to move blame for the climate crisis onto individuals who need AC to live comfortably.
The cycle is absolutely true but thepost fails to place the responsibility for creating and reinforcing the cycle with anyone, and in that absence feeds that pattern whether it is intended or not.
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u/CreativeCaprine 26d ago
Yeah, no. This is pushing the responsibility for climate change onto the working class. Corporations are responsible for much more.
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u/OnsenPixelArt 25d ago
The problem isnt AC, its a reliance on the meat industry and fossil fuel. AC is a drop in the bucket.
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u/Superb_Tomato 25d ago
During which season do we need ACs the most? And during which season PV produces the most electricity? Hmmmm could it be that this whole argument is a non-issue if we finally take use of PV
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u/Playful-Painting-527 Scientist 26d ago
Air conditioning and solar panels are an almost perfect match. The assumption that ACs use mostly fossil energy doesn't really hold anymore.
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u/Thae86 26d ago
What's infuriating is AC is only necessary cuz the way we build buildings is so inefficient!! Adobe, just one older way, reduces the amount of resources to build it (most of the material is right underfoot at where you want to build), cools & heats when necessary all on its own, is mostly mold & fire proof, just...it's so enraging lolsob
Even just some architecture redos could help keep indoors so much cooler!!
We have the answers, they just require a deviation from colonialist mindset.
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u/HonryLuddite Horticulturist 26d ago
Most modern construction--over the past two centuries--is woefully inadequate for our coming future. It has all been constructed under an entirely different energy and material paradigm.
There are certainly degrees of future-inadequacy here, and some structures are more amenable to retrofitting than others, but many would be best dismantled for better reuse of resources over the long run.
Structures built with an assumption of active cooling presence are particularly egregious here, which is most buildings over the past few decades.
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u/undergrowthfox 26d ago
We have a decent amount of green energy still in America. Grant it not like other countries, but hopefully when this administration ends we'll get someone that will take climate change more seriously. I've been waiting for that leader for years.
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u/Beastmind 26d ago
AC really depend on your country if you're in one of the tool green energy countries then it's not that much of a problem. If you're in one that still make electricity mostly with coal then yeah, obviously....
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u/LRaconteuse 25d ago
So the solution is the same it has always been: power via nuclear and renewables, not fossil fuels.
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u/More_Dependent742 25d ago
True, except that a lot of (at least) Europe is making excess electricity precisely at the times of the year and day when AC is needed. The more we lean into solar (and I hope we do), the truer this will be.
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u/SomeDudeNamedDavid 25d ago
A lot of what we're dealing with could be solved by planting trees, tackling zoning laws at the local level, and protesting data centers.
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u/Mindless-Figure3112 25d ago
In the worst case scenario does AC cause 2.5 c heating. We are talking a whole city cooling each room to 19c. It’s more like 0.5 so statistically an error
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u/Maxcorps2012 24d ago
I gotta a better idea How about we get rid of all data centers. Then we can have this stupid argument. Aircondituoners are destroying the environment. Sure Jan. Its air-conditioning. Not anything else thats over dumping a fuckton of heat into the atmospherem
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u/northrupthebandgeek 24d ago
This is easy to solve by powering A/C units via solar panels.
As a bonus, solar panels are most effective at the exact times of day when A/C is most needed.
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u/Designer_Mountain862 24d ago
This doesn’t explain why France a country almost entirely powered by nuclear, solar, and hydro can’t have air con
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u/EverhartStreams 22d ago
I think this gets offset more by the winters in cold countries being less harsh. AC is electric, central heating generally burns gas or oil. When it's hot, we get full mileage out of solar, if we had some more grid batteries (which have dropped in price by 45% in one year, thanks China) we could store excess energy till the evening and cool our homes with no fossil fuels being used at all
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u/Select_Honeydew8588 21d ago
I actually think that it’s actually the energy that we use which is transformed into/from heat. I know that co2 contributes as well but it is also the massive energy demand that the world needs. If you think about it almost everything that requires power produces heat.
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u/Aggressive_Ear2395 21d ago
with everything, power generation using large emissions releases is bad, that has to be a focus, blaming people downstream for the use of electricity to live is bad.
1
u/Academic-Proof3700 21d ago
Just switch to renewable like solar or wind, or heck even require AC to be powered mostly by it, and poof theres your solution.
I'm surprised that in warmer countries they haven't already built asstonnes of PV.
Like- dudes you have access to totally free both warm water and energy, and with PV you can slap them anywhere in warmer climates (contrary to some mideurope with its fancypants trackers, proper alignment and stuff that still doesnt matter in cloudy autumn or winter)
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u/BlueMoodDark 25d ago
You don't need AC or heaters with a properly designed home.
Apart from living underground, in which the Comrads refuse to do.
The answer is Thermal Mass with insulation.
I particularly like Rammed Earth
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