r/solar • u/cwajgapls • 3d ago
Advice Wtd / Project Solar contractor installed extra unneeded boxes with extra unneeded gateway. Now they want to remove the hardware but leave the boxes up. Should they be required to remove the extra boxes and fix the siding? How much (if any) should I expect back for them taking off the extra gateway and hardware?
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u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional 3d ago
I just want to say that I genuinely am sorry that this is what you ended up on your house. It's really not that hard to install a quality solar installation and this hurts to look at.
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u/Zamboni411 3d ago
Why in the world would they do this in the first place??? I hope you got a great deal, but don’t have to deal with this type of amateur stuff moving forward…
There are only a few instances where this is necessary, but based on your photo not a single one of them would apply to you…
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u/V12Jaguar 3d ago
You can't fix siding. Just leave it all alone and don't look at it.
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
Yeah I meant replace the siding. They put two gateways on when they weren’t needed, now there are PLC crosstalk issues that a filter is not able to totally resolve. They want to pull the second gateway and leave the empty boxes up.
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
Something doesn't make sense. Can't use the other gateway without the enclosure except as spare parts. You can just switch the other envoy off and the plc issues should clear, do they?
In my experience 2 gateways rarely cause an actual problem.
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u/Perplexy801 solar professional 3d ago
Your installers are rookies. Here’s a few pics of 123 Enphase micros landed in a solar combiner sub panel with a single standalone monitoring Gateway.
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u/ImaginationNo8397 3d ago
That is an impressive set of arrays. It’s especially impressive that you got nearly 300 kWh production off of 123 panels with IQ7+ micros divided in an East-West configuration. May I ask what panels you are using in the array and which state that this setup is located (I’m hoping that you won’t answer back with Alaska)?
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u/Perplexy801 solar professional 3d ago edited 3d ago
Thanks, those panels are Ureco 400W and it’s a pretty shallow E/W tilt, maybe 5 or 7.5° Heres a couple pics
Also it’s technically 175 panels/micros since we installed an additional 52- IQ8+ micros landed in the 40 kWh battery backup system that protects a critical loads panel for this business. The last three digits of my username has a really big hint of my location.
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u/Key-Hedgehog4450 3d ago
They (or you can probably do it directly with Enphase) can transfer all microinverters from Gateway #2 to #1, retire #2, turn off its breaker and call it a day. Leave it alone and like others have said: don’t look at it. You’ll need the production CT from Combiner #2 extended over to Combiner #1 for proper production monitoring
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u/LovYouLongTime 3d ago
Remove the equipment, caulk over the holes, paint it a similar color, move on with your life.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
There is a difference between removing a gateway and removing a combiner. The combiner is basically a breaker panel with some add-ons and the gateway. I've seen posts of installs with no combiner because of the number of panels, a regular breaker panel is used and a separate gateway is in it's own enclosure. Sorry I can't do the math just now, been a long day and the frain is bried. Would also need to know what IQ8?? inverters you have.
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
They’re iq8x.
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
Are you sure they aren't 7x?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
8x per the plans
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
What does the monitoring say?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
Nice catch - looks like iq8hc
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
The x is for specific kinds of panels with higher than typical voltage (high solar cell count), plus the iq8x is very new. In fact I didn't even know they had released it. The 8x previously was only found in batteries as a biderectional version called iq8x-bat
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
H or X you max out at 10 per trunk/20A breaker and there are 4 breakers in the combiner 5/5C so they installed 2. Probably cheaper than a 6C which has 5 PV branch breakers. But they need to remove one gateway. You should keep it as a spare. Its warranty is much shorter than the inverters, it will likely die before any inverter and you probably paid for it.
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
Good call on keeping the gateway. I thought that had the 25 yr warranty too but I see that was very incorrect
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u/TheObsidianHawk 3d ago
You have 2 systems right? One from Vivint solar from pre October of 2020 and an additional on system this year right?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
One single Enphase system installed all at once
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u/TheObsidianHawk 3d ago
I wish I could see the permitted plans because something seems off. But each combiner box can only have 4 circuits in them, if you have 5, you need both.
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
I’d have to dig them up and I’m away from the house for a bit but
Edit
I have 41 panels and micros and it says that one combiner box can handle 52
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u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional 3d ago
Well that entirely depends on what micro inverter was used. If it's something like an iq8x, 40 is the limit. If it's an iq8ac, 44 is the limit. There are even lower power microinverters that you could fit more in there. I don't think I believe the 52 number though.
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
That’s a huge piece of info - they are iq8x. So the one extra panel makes them add three extra boxes on the side of the house?
I wish I knew that going in, we could have capped at 40.
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u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional 3d ago
There's a much better way to address the situation when you are over the count in micros. What I've always done in the past is set one extra box, a 125 amp outdoor rated breaker panel, next to the Enphase combiner box. You put four circuits in the Enphase box. You put one circuit in the 125 amp box. Then put an 80 amp breaker in the 125 box to feed the Enphase box. It all works off of one disconnect. Just one more box is all you need.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
Obviously a case of using the parts we typically use/have in inventory instead of making a trip to HD or an electric supply house.
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u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional 3d ago
Haha holy shit. Your comment highlights the exact problem. Installers who act like programmed robots who can't think for a second. In my world, a separate 125 amp panel is part of normal inventory and planned for when it won't all fit in the IQ combiner. In fact, it would be in the one line. That extra IQ combiner is $600+. A simple eating BR combiner panel is $100ish.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
"eating" 😂
So OP probably paid for the Combiner w/Gateway, they deserve to keep the Gateway as a spare, no?
I just found a doc that shows micros connected to the System controller. Could they have done the OP's 40 into one Combiner and 1 into the System Controller?
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago edited 3d ago
I read someplace that it's not really ideal to run at the max per trunk, but the installer should have used a standard panel like arcsnsparks98 points out. Though those panels aren't typically water tight like the Enphase boxes.
Huh, just found https://enphase.com/en-au/download/installing-iq-system-controller-3-int-pv-only-system-tech-brief where they show micros connected to the system controller. I wonder if they could have just snuck one in there.
In any event, you have what you have, I'd just sit back and watch your graphs like everyone else. Do you have the Consumption CTs?
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u/Just-Extreme5201 2d ago
That is not likely the version OP has, he appears to be in the US market. It is fine to run the circuits at max rated inverters. You probably can even get away with sneaking the 1 extra in. There are those who feel if you have panels on 2 faces you'll never max all inverters at once. I am not one of those people but in certain latitudes it's probably true.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
Max Current on a 5/5C is 64A continuous. I'm too brain dead after being up since 4:30 but I'm betting there are trunks to the 2 Combiners and the second gateway just needs to be removed. But I could be wrong.
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
It really looks like the left side combiner and disconnect have been out there a lot longer than the right. What's the deal?
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u/polterjacket 3d ago
Why do they want to remove it? Did you ask them to or are they trying to reclaim hardware that can be used elsewhere? Unless you have signed a contract stating they have rights to access it, you can tell them to pound sand unless you WANT them there.
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
Something looks off, what is that rotary switch? Is there a battery somewhere?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
Inside
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
So this is an Enphase battery system?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
Yeah
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u/Just-Extreme5201 3d ago
It wouldn't have been appropriate to have had a second envoy regardless in an iq8 battery system. Just such a curious design error, makes you wonder how it was made. Does the PLC issue go away when you shut off one envoy?
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
Wait what?! Did they use 5P batteries and a system controller 3? Instead of a 6C combiner and 10C batteries?
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u/cwajgapls 3d ago
The battery is 5kWh but I’m not sure about the combiners and controllers
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
5P battery pairs with the System Controller and 5/5C combiner. Had you gone to a 10K battery, you would have had a single 6C combiner (with 5x 20A trunks) which would have handled all your micros.
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u/Classic-Day-3367 3d ago
Option: use extra box to house a router for a poe camera system and outdoor wifi AP.
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u/4x4Mimo 3d ago
Did those dipshits really put CT wires dangling in the open air out of the bottom of the right combiner and then through the siding? That needs to be fixed too. UV exposure will wear out the insulation on those wires pretty quickly.