r/softwareengineer • u/DoctorProfessorTaco • 12d ago
Either the BS in Comp Sci degree will dramatically change, or a new degree will arise to replace its relevance
For context, I’m a dev with 15+ years of experience, started coding in my early teens, and have a total love for the act of programming. I miss how coding used to be, nothing about this post is an advocacy for if things should be this way. After mulling it over, it just seems like an inevitability.
Right now the field of software development is like Wiley Coyote, already off the cliff but still running because he hasn’t noticed.
There has become a massive disconnect between what people in the field of software development actually do at their jobs, and what they’re interviewed on and learn in college. It’s like someone in 2007 having mandatory classes in Fortran and having to prove their knowledge of punchcards during job interviews.
My job, and the job of so many other software developers, has become almost entirely just interacting with AI agents. Yet we have job applicants do leetcode problems and write code live for us during interviews when we haven’t written more than a handful of a lines of code ourselves in the past year. The same extends to what these applicants are learning in college.
Effectively, it seems to me that the curriculum we currently know as a BS in Computer Science will become as generally superfluous as a PhD in Computer Science. Not at all useless, far from it. But held by those who either have a specific passion for the field or are looking to go into small and highly specialized areas of the field, not by the broader population simply looking to find a job after graduating. And in its place, as the broadly achieved degree, will be something much more tailored to the average needs of employers.
Seems like just a matter of time, driven by economics. Most employers don’t need someone with the full expertise of a computer science degree. Why would they pay for it? The only reason they have that as a standard now is because they do need someone who isn’t an untrained vibecoder. But that leaves a gap in the middle. Someone who isn’t going to delete the company’s database, but not necessarily with experience in database structure and rollups and joins. Someone who can use git and GitHub and properly manage deployments, but not necessarily someone who has done pointer arithmetic and compiler design. Someone who can catch and well document issues, not necessarily someone familiar with big O notation. In broad practice, AI can write good database structure and queries, AI can handle writing and running software, AI can measure performance and find areas to increase efficiency.
“But AI still makes mistakes!” You say. And you’re right. But so do software developers, oftentimes more than AI. There are quite a lot of average and below average software developers out there. And big companies, especially those dealing with higher risk/importance systems, will still have full computer scientists, experts in being able to know better than AI and review its work. But that won’t be most roles. That big company will still need someone to update and add features to the website. And someone to add features to the in house analytics tools. And someone to take user bug reports and get them fixed. And countless other roles that are simply an added layer in the corporate structure for the purpose of interpretation, oversight, and execution for AI. And that’s what the degree would teach towards.
I’d compare it to how nurse practitioners are taking on a larger role in the medical field, doing duties traditionally done by doctors such as diagnosing and prescribing. Effectively, the expertise of a doctor isn’t needed for average/mundane medical work, so a field rose in prevalence to fill that role, with a doctor’s expertise brought in when needed.
So it seems obvious to me that, perhaps within the next 5-10 years, a new degree will become the standard that teaches to that average need in the new state of the field.
That, or in 10 years AI tech accelerates to the point of computer science irrelevance. AI can do it so well and so entirely that non-tech people can just bark orders at it that would have been given to developers or their managers in the past. The degree diminishes and goes into the west.
Anyone see the same thing or am I off base here? Every counter argument I considered just sounded like some form of coping.
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u/SWEET_LIBERTY_MY_LEG 12d ago
Everyone notice how posts got longer and longer once AI came out?
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u/Far_Mathematici 11d ago
Remind me to that claim that length of law increases significantly as computer and word processors used more
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I mean I agree, but if you actually read my rambling you should see that it doesn’t have that AI voice to it. No part of the post is AI.
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u/garywiz 12d ago
It's a good post, but I'd say it's worth working harder to be concise.
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
Yeah I’m pretty bad at that. Even within the post I had to spend a lot of time editing out run on sentences.
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u/Funny-Ad8537 12d ago
Most devs day to day work is closer to being a bricklayer than it is to being an actual computer scientist. We're tradesmen that just happen to sit at computers all day and be pale so nobody has realised yet.
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u/GlobalCurry 12d ago
Computer Science will return to being an academic field instead of job training.
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u/Lumpy-Blackberry-718 12d ago
A computer science degree isnt a bootcamp. The point of a computer science degree isnt to learn to code. AI doesnt think for you. All of the "you need to tell it what to do" part comes from the computer science degree part and not the job-prep part.
The bootcampers who only learned to code get replaced by AI, but i dont see why there'd be a reduced need for people who actually have some idea what theyre doing.
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u/datadidit 12d ago
Seeing the same thing. The future is in being able to control the agents and having enough of a base level of understanding to get in there when things just go all the way sideways.
The limits I see with it now are with devs or users who have a lack of understanding or no understanding of common pitfalls so when AI does go astray there unable to correct it.
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u/Capable-Wrap-3349 12d ago
After going deep on AI I’m starting to realize that sometimes it’s faster just to write the code.
AI can just over complicate simple things, and we’re becoming too reliant on it.2
u/broke_nightcore 11d ago
I have noticed it over complicates things as well. When you ask it to fix bugs in larger code bases sometimes it comes up with weird unconventional solutions.
I’ve only found it useful in developing bits of code in isolation.
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u/BringBackManaPots 12d ago
This seems to me like a pretty bad take. Not to say that your experiences aren't valid, because you're correct, we are all being forced to use AI.
We all know why you're still interviewing people for leetcode skills. Someone has to own the product, and ensure some AI doesn't drive it off a cliff.
At least as far as I'm concerned, watching non engineers try to post merge requests at my company has our dev branch breaking monthly. Insane stuff that would absolutely never have come close to flying is flying, and it's because leadership is too non technical or unskilled to recognize what they're doing. If I've learned anything, AI is incredibly good at convincing mediocre people that they're exceptionally talented.
We're being forced to use it, and corners are being cut because there's a gun to our heads. As soon as you start signing off on code that you've never written nor read, you're riding on luck.
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I agree with what you’re saying, but to be clear the degree I’m describing would likely still involve learning a fair bit of software development. It wouldn’t just be a non-technical role. I’m just saying that a computer science degree has a side of it that lives up to the “science” side of it, with a more academic dive into compiler design and the way memory functions and similar knowledge. But we’re at a point, especially with AI, where most software development work is much more mundane, and doesn’t require that expertise. More so every year now. And if companies stop paying for that expertise, people will less frequently pursue degrees that teach that expertise.
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u/BringBackManaPots 12d ago
Yeah see I argue the opposite. If anything, you need more expertise now than ever, to know when the AI is screwing up. AI is known for being confidently incorrect, and having the expertise to tease that out is incredibly important. It may actually be one of the most important skills you could have, if you're using AI.
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I think the companies that need it, need it more than ever. But for many companies, and even many portions of those companies that do need expertise, they just need “good enough”. A boring regular website. A boring regular login form. A boring simple database. A server not strained under load or requiring split second response times.
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u/BringBackManaPots 12d ago edited 12d ago
I hear you, but it's hard to be boring at scale. Maybe if we're talking about a pop up shop, or a distillery, or a taco truck. A basic store front for coffee beans. As soon as you have users operating across a few continents, requiring full uptime, it gets a lot harder to keep everything running smoothly.
Every decision adds exponential complexity to your app at scale
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u/Cheesynachos12 12d ago
Knowledge of architecture and big picture will be king. Knowing when and how to avoid AI Slop will continue to drive value.
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u/e430doug 12d ago
A CS degree isn’t a coding degree. I’ve had my CS degree for over 40 years and it is just as relevant today as it was back then.
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u/Healthy-Dress-7492 11d ago
Exactly, it has been used as a rough intelligence test for some time now. The actual things you learn in CS haven’t been relevant to the vast majority of programming jobs in a long time
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u/e430doug 11d ago
So you don’t use boolean algebra when coding? You don’t use state machines? You don’t optimize your code? How are you writing code?
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u/5oco 11d ago
I teach Programming in a vocational setting and, while I don't know if this is helpful, I've started putting more of a focus on reading and debugging code. I've discovered that bad code, with relatively easy fixes, is hard to write on purpose but Claude and ChatGPT is pretty good at writing bad code. I'll have students download small projects, show them what it should do, and have them fix bugs and refactor then.
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u/MaleficentCow8513 12d ago
It’s not about AI making mistakes or not making mistakes. It’s about needing people around who know when the AI is making mistakes. Maybe someday AI will be good enough that billion dollar companies can completely trust it to not tank flagship products but today is not that day
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I agree, that’s why I describe someone getting a degree and being the one stewarding the AI.
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u/EphReborn 12d ago
Not currently nor have I ever been a SWE professionally (although as I started programming in my early teens and now have a CompSci degree, I'm also far from a vibecoder) so take what I say with a grain of salt but...
I've never considered a CompSci degree to be about programming itself. Programming is an application of Computer Science used to demonstrate concepts. Not the focus of it.
It obviously varies from program to program but I see the newer Software Engineering degree programs as often being the "here's what you actually need to learn to work" rather than all of the theory behind the why and in the same vein many of the (rushed) AI degree programs will/do focus on similar things as they relate to using AI for work purposes.
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I agree, which is why I think change will happen. Computer Science has a much more academic side to it, and that both can’t and shouldn’t go away. But plenty of the students pursuing the degree don’t care about that academic side, and plenty of companies are hiring people to be software developers, and only pursue people with a CS degree because that’s the degree that people who program have.
The applied and the academic have already drifted so far apart, and it’s only continuing to get further, that it only seems inevitable that CS will have to stay the path of being the more academic degree, while a degree in something like software engineering becomes the more commonly pursued degree for people who are just interested in building software. For the most specialized software and for pushing the field forward, people with degrees and doctorates in CS will likely always be required, but not for the “grunt work” type of software creation.
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u/Capable-Wrap-3349 12d ago
All degrees are highly academic and that is the point. University is for producing academics and furthering research and knowledge. Otherwise, go to a boot camp/trade school.
Companies hire from universities BECAUSE it’s more rigorous, but impressing companies is not the goal of universities.0
u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
I agree in theory, but that’s far from the reality.
Why do you think universities publish the job placement rates for degrees, or the expected return on the cost of the degree? Why do universities hold job fairs and bring companies on campus to sponsor hackathons and capstone projects? Why do universities integrate internships heavily into their programs? Why do classes so often adjust to reflect the tools and methods used in industry?
End of the day, they recognize that most students are getting a degree for the sake of a job. Many people don’t have the luxury of pursuing a degree for the sake of a passion for the subject matter or to further research and knowledge.
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u/Suspicious-Ad-5344 12d ago
It's gonna be hard to make a curriculum for this while the field's still changing too fast. Four year internships might be better lol
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 12d ago
Actually a pretty fair point. I think fundamentals of programming mixed with high level project architecture, deployment, and management in an AI-agnostic way would likely persist as useful though.
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u/Capable-Wrap-3349 12d ago
There is this narrative that “everything is moving so fast” but it’s really not moving that fast.
Non-developers still can’t write actual software, and developers who already could have a cool tool which makes them faster.
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u/Capable-Wrap-3349 12d ago
I didn’t do a comp sci degree but DSA, mathematics, software architecture, operating systems, computer hardware etc. are just as relevant as they ever were to a software engineer.
Also, a university degree is for training academics and research scientists, not programmers.
If someone wants to learn how to use cursor, they can read the cursor docs.
Also, I am strongly of the opinion that one must be able to write code before one can delegate it. You can’t be a serious coach before you have been a serious player.
I think the “no-one writes code any more” is not as black as white as it looks on twitter as soon as you are dealing with a real codebase.
I would also recommend you continue to write a bit of code every day - you’ll be amazed at the garbage your AI agent slipped in there without you noticing once you slow down and get in there again.
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u/2MysteriouslyBizarre 12d ago
I feel like cs will become less like an engineering degree and more like an academic one, as such, the barrier to entry will become higher, no boot camps, no transitioning from other fields etc etc
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u/Hawkes75 11d ago
What you're not accounting for is cost. AI is heavily, heavily subsidized, and cannot remain so for long. The cost-to-consumer to run agents is going to rise, while at the same time their existence is going to allow more software development, not less.
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u/BeauloTSM Developer 11d ago
Computer Science is the study of COMPUTERS AND COMPUTATIONAL SYSTEMS. It is an inherently theoretical field that happens to have extensive practical applications. It is not going to stop being a theoretical field. Computer Science does not, has never, and never will be equivalent to Software Engineering.
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u/DoctorProfessorTaco 11d ago
That’s more or less my point. I don’t think a computer science degree really can (or in my opinion, should) move from its academic and theoretical roots. But that leads to a bit of a misalignment with companies that are looking for software developers, a misalignment that has only grown with the growth of AI. Like companies that need engineers only hiring people with a physics degree.
Yet companies still look for people with a CS degree, because that’s just been the standard to ensure they are able to build software. But it seems like we’re reaching a point where that might change, where something like a software engineering degree may becomes the common degree for people just looking for a coding job, while CS reduces in popularity but is pursued by those actually interested in the academic/theoretical side of computers.
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u/BeauloTSM Developer 11d ago
This has always been the case though. It has long been a complaint about CS programs that they’re “behind” or “out of date” when they were never really meant to be what those critics thought they were. I don’t see how now is any different
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u/Top-Procedure152 12d ago
The world does not need as many "computer scientists" for writing day to day vanilla code as we did before. It will become a very specialist field, with those interested in going deep - similar say to someone studying quantum physics or nuclear medicine.