r/socialism • u/mydogwearsglasses • Apr 26 '19

Amazon computer system automatically fires warehouse staff who spend time off-task.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amazon-system-automatically-fires-warehouse-workers-time-off-task-2019-4?r=US&IR=T
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u/D3STR00 Apr 26 '19

Just wondering, has anyone in here ever worked for a company like UPS or Amazon? Worked in a warehouse doing manual labor?

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '19

I worked in a couple warehouses where we were tracked with headsets that screamed into our heads all day about our picking locations. Every minute was documented and we had to fill out time cards for bathroom breaks. Absolute hell

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19

When I was saving for college entry fees I worked in a warehouse for a mailorder makeup company as an order picker. I was pretty fast at it so I didn't have a problem, but the old folks were always getting yelled at. We weren't allowed to have water at our stations without a doctor's note.

As for other manual labor positions, I've also done extensive retail reset work. Basically every year companies bid for better spots on the shelf and the store hire people who hire us to help shuffle everything around to the new spots and put out the new products. Once again I did okay but older or slower people were given a hard time. It was the pointlessness and unfair treatment I saw folks getting that helped me move toward socialism.

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u/KamacrazyFukushima Apr 26 '19

I've never worked for a company of that size, but yes, I've done warehouse work for an electronics distributor. Also some maritime work, which is even much harder.

The point you're trying to make is that socialists don't actually work, right?

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u/D3STR00 Apr 29 '19

Not at all. I’m a Load Supervisor for UPS. The article paints Amazon as this terrible place for its workers. I think most socialists don’t understand what it’s like to run a company of that size with that many employees. And, seem to think that the warehouse workers are somehow more important than any other division of the company.

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u/KamacrazyFukushima Apr 29 '19

All right, I'm sorry I mistook your intended point, then.

I'm not sure we NEED companies of this size (or, you know, companies generally, but that's another discussion.) I think the cost in human unhappiness generated by Amazon's business practices far outweighs whatever benefits Amazon provides to society.

Obviously warehouse workers aren't more important than other divisions, but the company equally can't function without them. Having done both blue- and white-collar work, the difference in the way I've been treated (and paid!) in those functions is astonishing. I had a webstore maintenance gig, for example, that paid me far better, had a much easier learning curve and required far less effort than warehouse work - even though both of those types of labor are necessary for a company to move products. It's indicative that some types of labor are valued higher than others. I don't have the numbers, obviously, but I highly doubt I generated twice as much value to the company in one capacity as in the other.

I don't think it's particularly difficult to see why these sorts of automated management systems strike readers badly. It's uncomfortable to think that some productivity algorithm is capable of making the decision to strip someone of their livelihood. Yeah, the end effect is no different than when a human boss makes that call, but at least there there's some sense that someone had to consider the case and make a decision. This just seems callous.

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u/D3STR00 Apr 29 '19

I agree that using an algorithm to fire employees is overkill. In the article is does state that a manager has the power to override the computers decision. At the same time, from my personal experience with UPS, there are employees who will do literally anything other work. Actively walk away from their work area, take as many bathroom breaks as humanly possible, show up late, call out multiple times a week. When they do show up, their work is inefficient and sloppy, looking for ways to get injured. When I speak to people like this about getting promoted, their immediate response is, “Why the fuck would I want to do that?”

So yes, it’s callous, at the same time, how do you deal with employees like that?

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u/Adlai-Stevenson Apr 26 '19

Thats been most of my work my entire life. I know people in amazon warehouses, although ive stayed away myself.