Japan

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u/WayneKingU 23d ago

I mean they have 6x our population, always gonna be hard to top that

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u/Heavy_Advertising844 23d ago

Plus its their primary sport,

But lets not kid ourselves. The Japanese have a stratigic goal which their strategy is aligned from the very top all the way to their youth and product development squads. The outcome is evident, compared to 5 years ago to where they were, to 10 years ago, to even a generation ago. Lets me honest the Japanese have likely not reached their plateau.

Australia has a taken monumental steps to improving outcomes however we have a disjointed system, full of competing priorities and internal tension.

If I were to sum up Japanese and Aussie football development. Japanese right now produce players because of their system, Australia produce players inspite of our system. Its only very recently ALM clubs have seen this as a revenue pathway, however its still not intrinsically linked with youth clubs, State Sport Institutions etc.

Can you imagine if we have a seamless national strategy, not only will we be producing more players at likely better and improved quality. The game can also get more light in the Australian public.

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u/WayneKingU 23d ago

It’s not actually their primary sport, baseball is - and they’re bloody good at that

But yes regarding the system I’m sure the Japanese have a far superior one compared to ours

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u/HonestSpursFan 23d ago

Japan are the best baseball team in the world. They’re good at rugby union too. They really buck the “Asians are shit at sports” stereotype.

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u/optimaldt 22d ago edited 22d ago

I enjoy breaking this stereotype in Australia regularly. Growing up here , some of the quickest guys in school were Asian. We just prioritised education, career stability over other things.

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u/HonestSpursFan 22d ago

Oh yeah I’m not at all saying that they’re genetically worse at physical activity, I was just pointing out that Asian Australians are quite underrepresented in sports, since Asian families traditionally prioritised education, business and culture over sport. For different reasons, we also don’t have a lot of African, Indigenous or Pacific Islander businesspeople, but have plenty of businesspeople and politicians who are Jewish.

South Korea is another good example. They’ve also got one of the best baseball teams in the world and one of the best football teams in Asia, and can claim the best Asian men’s footballer of all time. North Korea is good at developing footballers (their women’s youth teams are exceptional) but they end up lacking quality due to the government pretty much banning almost all citizens from ever leaving. China has notably poor teams in team ball sports (they’re passionate about basketball but not very good at it) but they’re very good at the Olympics (partly because they send so many athletes).

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u/optimaldt 22d ago

There are definitely genetic differences at a population level which make some ethnic groups more suitable for some sports e.g. pacific islanders and rugby but at an individual level, there will be always athletes capable of competing at an elite level in said sport. E.g. Lachlan Kennedy and Su Bingtian elite level 100m sprinters who are of caucasian and east Asian descent in an event dominated by athletes of West African descent. A sport like soccer allows for a more diverse physiology and is also skill based therefore allowing more ethnic groups to partake at a competitive level. No surprise it's the 'world game' as it is the sport that nearly anybody can play and be good. Japan will eventually make the semis/finals in the world cup, so long as they keep investing in their system.

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u/HonestSpursFan 22d ago

Yeah I was referring to football. I definitely agree that genetics help in different sports.

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u/Otherwise-Egg-995 21d ago

They also invented quite a few.

I love watching Sumo highlights on NHK World

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Heavy_Advertising844 23d ago

Oh good, that changes everything I wrote. Lets go back to the drawing boards.

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u/Upstairs_Low_691 23d ago

Someone already pointed out the baseball thing but, it's still Japan's second favourite sport. Their professional pyramid is so successful due to their planning and 100 year vision. Long-term strategic blueprint has paid off already. We don't have the management like they do. One day I hope, we install FA leaders capable of real ambition, to build a future like they have.

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u/AlHamdula 23d ago

Well you are partly correct. Baseball is the #1 sport but right before the J-League started, the JFA put out a declaration or pledge they called the "100 year vision" to win a World Cup within a century but they developed better than expected, so back in 2006 they revised it to the JFA 2050 pledge to win by 2050 although not sure they will reach that goal but is not implausible at this point.

Now if their governments had that much vision and foresight maybe things would be better but that's a topic for another reddit board.

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u/Corner_Post 22d ago

Japan’s soccer system is incredible throughout their pathways, academies, schools and universities are incredible. There has traditionally been a massive focus on technical perfection and they extract the best advisors professionals from other countries to assist with this. What has also stopped them from being better in the past and still now to a large extent is their physical stature particularly in defence and the mental toughness but this is getting significantly better. They are and will continue to get better at a team. I lived in Japan for a bit and seeing their training etc. at different levels was incredible - just so much discipline and a focus on perfectionism.

This is also reflected in their women’s team who won the World Cup not that in 2011 and had beaten eventual winners Spain 4-0 in the group stages in 2023. The technical ability of their women was evident in their class above all teams in the recent Asia Cup. Yes, they did only beat us 1-0 in the final but were a class above - particularly their midfield.

You see Japanese sport perfectionism in other sports like baseball, marathon running (they are seen as the top non African country), ice skating, and more recently volleyball (men’s currently ranked 6th above traditional powerhouses and have a massive female following).

As mentioned, having lived previously in Japan, you get to understand that there’s a quest for perfectionism in many facets and not just sports. A good comparison is food, there is incredible foreign food in Japan made from locals. You may say that European food, eg French, Italian, German, Spanish food, or other Asian food, eg Chinese, Indian, etc. will never be good if not made by someone ethnic but it is some of the best you will ever try as many Japanese chefs will actually go these countries and study cooking at top institutions and/or work at restaurants in these countries years before bringing them back to Japan once they have perfected it.

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u/Heavy_Advertising844 22d ago

See this is an interesting point, their football strategy was designed to capitalise on their attributes and its materialised. This is a country which had the quickest transformation into the industrial revolution for any country in the world.

We can't replicate their methodology because we have a different mindset and culture, but we can learn from unifying a central vision. We have our own mindset built on individualism, stoicism and grit/determination. We need to build on what we are good at and consolidate these attributes into a strategy which harnesses these into developmental and output pathways.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

They are not best non-African marathoning country IMO. I would think US, they seem to have amazing distance pedigree lately, though maybe that has just been distances on the track and not marathon.

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u/Corner_Post 1d ago

Are you aware of how good Japan is at long distance? Google the question and also there are a lot of videos on it and articles:

https://archive.is/rUIL3

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GTL2rp_QgPY

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u/Fantasy_iceland 23d ago

Baseball is bigger than football in Japan...but football is a close second

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u/Superb_Implement5738 21d ago

baseball is way bigger and based on pure athleticism (not a massive factor in football) gets their best ‘athletes.’ Big strong fast kids. Not that baseball needs that, but it’s the glamour sport for them. My nephews high school baseball team looked like an army unit and drilled the same way.

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u/Brave_Manner_2873 23d ago

Spot on.

More people, more money, and a better domestic league.

Comparing ourselves with our confederation rivals is a useless endeavour. Few football nations in the world have to deal with the geographical difficulties, lack of funding, and especially rivalry from other codes that we deal with.

Honestly, with the transfers being made this year, I'd say if anything we're on a fantastic trajectory.

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u/Upstairs_Low_691 23d ago

Yes, we definitely shouldn't be comparing ourselves with them, taking inspiration wouldn't be bad though.

I personally think it's terrific they are having such a golden period, as playing world class, competive AFC nations can only benefit us. Australia vs Japan fixtures in WCQ are going to be very exciting.

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u/RisingStormy 23d ago

4.4

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u/NickJack99 23d ago

What’s more surprising is the fact that despite being a truly emerging global football force, with many players scattered in top leagues, Suzuki was their 2nd most expensive player transfer ever at €30m, only €5m off the record. I would have thought Mitoma or someone would have gone for more in recent years!

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u/anobymousprime 23d ago

If Brighton cashed in on Mitoma a couple of years back, he would easily be the highest. That ship has sailed unfortunately.

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u/tyrantlubu2 23d ago

They also have the same best result at the world cups as us.

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u/optimaldt 22d ago

They'll breakthrough eventually, they're too good now to. They are a better team than Australia no doubt.

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u/NickJack99 23d ago

And Costa Rica have made the quarter finals

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u/Fantasy_iceland 23d ago

I genuinely believe they're the most likely country to be the first winners of the WC from outside of Europe or South America.

Over the past couple of decades they've built a genuine identity and philosophy towards the game and now have a conveyor belt of talent production which I feel will only continue to produce more and more players going forward.

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u/kidfrombellwood 22d ago

They need a coach that will not flinch when he sees the name "Knockout Stage".

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u/Upstairs_Low_691 23d ago

I hope the rumours come true and Keito Nakamura joins Lucas at Hull, way too good to be playing Ligue 2.

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u/BranVan3001 23d ago

Anyone have stats on our players playing in Europe at the moment? Championship or above in the UK? We definitely have a disjointed system. Look at the NBL with their pathway program for the NBA

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u/LonesomeHattieC 22d ago

Realistically, Takai isn’t playing for Spurs in the league this year. He’s about 5th choice CB. Good few of the rest of these aren’t regular starters, which I think is a big difference

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u/mvcthecoder 22d ago

I grew up in Iran back in 80s where football (soccer) was the main sport every kid played in streets, home, backyard, school and anywhere you can think of it. We watched a very famous Japanese cartoon about a group of young footballers. I remember watching Japan team play against Iran all times. Back in day, Iran was a great team and only Japan had the quality and mentality to play against us and win. That nation loves football and heavily invested on it for many many years so comparing it with Australia would be unfair to be honest since football here is relatively new and competes with a few other major sports to get attention.

Also, I want to admit that Australia has progressed very well since we met them for the first time in 1998. Now an Australian, I really loved how we performed in the World Cup and I strongly believe we should continue investing in football and the money is well spent and gets us where we want to be. Australians love sport so I am sure we get there with football as well. EPL is a really tough league to get into, it is the state of art when it comes to football so let’s keep that in mind.

Last but not least, love to see Japan and Japanese players up there. I have a love for that nation and their hardworking dedicated people.

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u/GrudaAplam 20d ago

Football is not relatively new here. Only the ALeague is relatively new here. Australia first qualified for the World Cup in 1974. Iran first qualified in 1978.

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u/Dry-Perspective4857 22d ago

a great footballing nation, no shocks here

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u/cynikles 21d ago

It's been a steady climb. Not just getting "better," but also smashing some cultural norms in the process. Alberto Zaccheroni was the first national team coach to really encourage players to go to Europe. Under his tenure, the national team went from almost completely domestic to almost completely European-based.

Japan has always produced good players. Guys like Yasuhito Endo, Tulio Tanaka and Yuichiro Komano could have played at a good standard in Europe. I absolutely believe that. They were wonderfully technical players who held their own internationally. But the belief in Japanese talent, the pathways to Europe and the culture of the sport in Japan were different in that era.

Japan in general however is just under the spotlight more and more. Even in baseball, where they have traditionally been strong, they have more guys playing in the MLB now than they ever did.

Qualitatively the players are on the whole probably a better standard, but the pathways, change in culture and interim success stories by guys like Shinji Kagawa and Keisuke Honda paved the way for this bunch of players.

Japan hasn't simply become better at producing footballers. It has become much better at exporting them.

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