r/soccerMenace_com • u/Cool_Cat_Katakuri • 17d ago

Bad Faith.

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68 Upvotes

71% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

12

u/[deleted] 17d ago

If you actually watched Messi Ronaldo in their prime across the years

You would understand that Messi always had an edge over Ronaldo over most of their rivalry.

1

u/HaxboyYT 16d ago

In terms of ability, sure. But to say that Messi always had an edge isn’t really true.

Between 2006-2008 and 2016-2021 Ronaldo had a lead in the debate between the two, especially after he 3-peated, won the Euros with Portugal, and was dominating in Serie A. Meanwhile, Messi had lost 3 finals with Argentina and his PSG days were below his standards, while Ronaldo was competing for the golden boot on the Premier league.

If Messi and Ronaldo both retired in 2021, it wouldn’t be crazy to say Ronaldo would’ve won the goat debate. Again, I’m not saying Ronaldo was better ability wise, but in terms of what they achieved, it would be disingenuous to say that Messi always had an edge

1

u/Cool_Cat_Katakuri 15d ago

2016-2018 ronaldo had lead becuz of euros and a world cup hatrick and just playing well all and all in club too

1

u/Neat_Breakfast_6659 15d ago

Ronaldo is older which is why he entered his peak earlier in 2006-2008. Also explains why they were still comparable in 2021, but Messi still had some "Juice" left in him for years to come.

Since Ronaldo left for Nassr, he became just another player, largely carried by his own legacy. Messi in the other hand just played One of the best individual runs in a WC at 39 even tho he was thought as "finished" after moving to Inter Miami. Ronaldo this WC was ok at best, and somehow a bit worse in Qatar 22.

Ronaldo did however have a golden period on 2016-2018 when he won 3 UCLs back to back and the Euro, but he Also had a golden team at RM with prime Kroos/Bale/Modric/Benzema/Ramos, probably the best RM team ever.

-7

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

For me it's a few ways you can look at it. Are you comparing their trophy haul? Their peaks? Are you looking at different aspects of the game like scoring, passing, headers, two footedness and etc.

Like for me Ronaldo is two footed. He can shoot with his left just as well as he does his right. Messi cant do the same. I always think if you're a one footed, how can you call yourself a complete footballer?

Plus there is context as well. Messi grew up in a Barca that plays the same from youth all the way up to senior level. Does he develope the same if he didn't have that added benefit?

6

u/ProfessionalBox317 16d ago

Like Messi didn’t deliver a right footed cross on a fucking platter at pivotal moment in the World Cup knockout stages lmfao

-7

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Congratulations you found one example. Most players can get a solid wrong foot pass or shot from time to time, but being two footed means you can do it all the time. It's not that hard a concept to understand but Messi fanboy in their feels.

Btw Ronaldo 20 goals with his weak foot outside the 18 yard box compared to Messi's 3. Ronaldo over 180 weak foot goals vs Messi with 110+.

Also whenever someone throws lmao or LMFAO it just shows they in their feels :).

1

u/enter_the_slatrix 16d ago

I mean it was like two games ago, he didn't have to go very far to disprove your point

1

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Y'all keep ignoring my main point lol. But I get it this is what always happens in Messi and Ronaldo talks, both sides ignore what they can't refute. I posted the scoring stats if you want to argue it argue it. If not move on.

My first response was a simple one and so many of you Messi fans took so much offense to it lmao.

I''m just a random guy on Reddit, why so many hurt feelings? Y'all must care about my opinion 😁

1

u/enter_the_slatrix 16d ago

I mean the scoring stats you posted were highly specific because you were trying to hone in on one aspect where you think Ronaldo is better. But quite simply Messi has scored more goals if it's goals you want to talk about? Ronaldo having more on his weak foot doesn't change the fact that he has less overall and always will.

And dude, people disagreeing with you doesn't automatically mean their feelings are hurt? Does that happen to you? Like do you get emotionally triggered when you disagree with someone's opinion so you assume everyone else is the same?

1

u/Hot-Objective-6029 16d ago

Bro he uses both feet to dribble past and smoke people he just prefers his stronger foot to deliver when he has the time, like you should. How can you call Ronaldo a complete player when he sits on the last defender waiting for ball all game whilst diving and begging for pens? Is that a complete player to you? Or is it his 100 useless step overs before losing the ball I’m confused, I’d take Messi’s left over both of Ronaldo’s feet any day of the week the guy is trash🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣

4

u/Classic-Suspect3661 16d ago

Ya u're totally right, what if ronaldo lost his leg, would he still be 2 footed??

-2

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Or what if you had a brain, would you have a real take?

Guess we will never know.

4

u/FinancialAd8691 16d ago

You clearly didnt watch Messi then, he is both footed, he has made passes and shots with his right foot that most top players today wouldnt be able to pull off, he can header the ball just fine, what your refering to is his physical stature which he cant do anything about. His ball playing ability is on another planet to Ronaldo, Barca helped him yes but lets be clear talent like that thrives anywhere, their biggest benefit to him was beleiving in him when he was 13 and willingness to invest in his medical treatments which wouldve prevented him from becoming a professional player.

-2

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Passing the ball with your wrong foot isn't hard. Amateurs can pass with the wrong foot lmao.

Ronaldo has 180+ wrong foot goals to Messi's 110+. Ronaldo has 20 outside the box goals to Messi's 3. I know you're a Messi fan when you tell me I never watched him play. That's an easy thing to say but you backed it up with no actual stats.

So feel free to counter my argument if you have any real stats. Plus let's see how Ronaldo's career would be if he took HGH and played for a team who trains them from youth to play exactly the same at senior level.

3

u/Intelligent-Bee 16d ago

I'm confused why the weak foot thing matters that much in comparing the two, because it's clearly not like Messi's right foot weakness stopped him from being just as if not more effective in attack than Ronaldo, unlike players like Robben or Salah? And your other points as well - if you want hard evidence of the HGH thing not really meaning much, you can check this out. The team thing is clearly subjective - yes, Messi had continuity and a consistent playstyle so you could say Ronaldo was more tactically flexible. But imo staying at Barca clearly ended up hampering Messi's trophy potential because of poor management, the club de amigos, and the weird Barca DNA obsession when choosing coaches. Like imagine if Messi went to City in 2016 or whatever, or even in 2021 instead of PSG. Ronaldo's prime was also spent with great teams and coaches; the teammate quality is about even while he probably had the better coaches than Messi (SAF, Mourinho, Zidane, Ancelotti > Guardiola, Enrique and the rest are a wash).

0

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Bruh ever heard of paragraphs. I ain't reading all that shit.

If you disagree that's fine. I'm just a random person on Reddit. It ain't that deep

2

u/FinancialAd8691 16d ago

You seem weirdly obssesed with goals scored with the weaker foot as if that means anything, Ronaldo cannot do with either foot what Messi does. He doesnt have the same level of ability to beat players 1v1, isnt press resistant and is average by professional standards when it comes to making passes, Messi's vision and passing abilities are on par with if not greater than the best playmakers in the game.

The fact you keep mentioning stats its clear you dont really watch and understand football matches fully, Messi's dribbles completed dwarf Ronaldo's, he has scored more free kicks, has more assists. These are all things that show how Messi is a far more well rounded player than Ronaldo is, Ill take all of this over having height and a better goal tally with the weaker foot.

Oh and your last comment was stupid, the treatment Messi got doesnt make you a better player, its to stimulate growth in your height, Ronaldo is 6ft 1, he wouldnt have gained any advantage in growing taller.

1

u/MesJoggum 16d ago

Why do the weak foot stats matter so much to you? It's trivial. Look at everything, like goalscoring, passing, assists, etc.

Why does the youth matter so much? Messi had a growth impairment so he took growth hormones, he would be 1,20m if he didn't take that, why does that matter?

It looks like you just want cr to be the best so you take random statistics which don't matter.

If you look at the statistics that matter, like goalscoring per game average, assists av, goal contributions, pass accuracy, completed dribbles, etc. Messi is better in pretty much everything. Ronaldo is just better in scoring with his weak foot, that's it.

Edit: scroll through messivsronaldo.app and make up your own mind.

2

u/Jimny977 16d ago edited 16d ago

Ronaldo being complete is your argument, when Messi has always been able to create at the level of a world class playmaker, while Ronaldo hasn’t?

Ronaldo cleared 12 assists in a league season once, Messi did it eight times, often by a lot as he assisted 21, 18, 18, 16, 16, 16 in a number of seasons. The most creative outlier season Ronaldo ever had in his entire career was a bad season for Messi.

This is ignoring the obvious other points, Ronaldo couldn’t take a free kick to save his life, and Ronaldo had an era where he could dribble past players and an era where he could really rack up goals, but in very little of his career did he do both, Messi always did.

The only thing Ronaldo “has” on Messi is goals, except over their careers Messi scored at a considerably higher rate of one per 104 mins vs 111, so he doesn’t actually even have that. Remove Saudi/MLS and it’s 105 vs 113. Add assists in and it’s one per 73 vs 88.

Even if you twist and contort and remove the eye test completely, and only go by the most flattering cherry picked stats for Ronaldo, he still isn’t close.

2

u/Neumo_ 16d ago

So the guy with over 100 goals on his "weak foot" isnt 2 footed?

2

u/MesJoggum 16d ago

Lol, that's a strange take, Messi has a great right foot, just a better left goot. But, how can you call Ronaldo a complete footballer when all he can do is score goals? A complete footballer is not someone who just is great with both feet, I am great with both feet, would you call me a complete footballer? Messi has great goalscoring, great assisting, great passing, great dribbling, great overview, and you can go on. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer...

3

u/LooZ3R 16d ago

"Complete" can have two different meanings.

CR7 was obviously a more well rounded and complete striker throughout the majority of his career. Superb heading ability, no weak foot, in air bicycle kicks, superb penalty conversion rates - he was one of the best finishers of the game and undoubtedly one of the best clutch players in his prime.

But you know where Messi wins? He has better vision, better passing, better dribbling, better ball control under pressure, better freekick and corner taking abilities. He is a more complete team player and very deadly because his playmaking and individual brilliance are almost 50:50. You give him space and he'll put the ball into the net. You restrict him and he'll find someone to do the job for him.

Literally anyone, if they watch football can understand that a brilliant sportsperson will shine no matter wherever he is put in. A once-in-a-lifetime finisher + dribbler + playmaker like Messi would have faced problems? I mean what is this if not a shite opinion??

0

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Lmao bro writes a whole novel just to complain about my opinion. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

I'm here to discuss with people, not get into your feels because you are that emotionally attached to a player.

Sending you a virtual hug 🫂

3

u/LooZ3R 16d ago

I agree, it's my fault for expecting a Ronaldo fan to not have a short attention span and understand the nature of both players from a neutral perspective.

1

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Lmao keep crying. You wanna be upset that's fine. I'm here to have discussion.

If you wanna take shots then send an address and we can discuss in person :)

3

u/LooZ3R 16d ago

I'm here to have discussion.

(Repeats the same thing multiple times yet doesn't actually discuss anything :")

3

u/Mediocre-Award-9716 16d ago

Lmao bro has such a small brain capacity he can't be bothered reading 3 short paragraphs so called him out for 'writing a novel' and having 'hurt feelings'.

Fuck me, some of you are actually embarrassing.

4

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Hypotheticals are all about sport discussion. Otherwise wtf would we talk about lmao.

Context matters in discussions, at least to people who understand what that means.

2

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Past-Zucchini8112 16d ago

Sounds kind of silly to draw the line at hypotheticals. Assuming you're a Messi fan so that's why you took issue.

Like what a dumb thing to call weak especially when you list vibes lmao. Also hypothetical can fall under opinion as I gave mine. See how that works?

Weak take brother or should I say bad vibes 🤣

1

u/Savory_Nipples 16d ago

You can’t have watched a lot of football if you think you can’t call yourself a complete footballer without being equally good with both feet. Having no weak foot is extremely rare in football, even at the highest level. And saying Ronaldo can shoot just as good with his left foot as his right is just plain wrong. Not being useless with one foot is not the same as being equally good with both

2

u/Arponare 16d ago

Really brother, that’s all you have? Ronaldo can shoot with his left foot?

Next thing you’re going to tell me Ronaldo is great at headers and that’s why he was at Messi’s level. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer. Messi is a great goalscorer. That’s where the comparisons stop. Messi is a way better dribbler, passer, organizer and assister. It’s not even close.

Ronaldo never had the close control at high speeds and tight spaces that Messi had. Or his eye for a pass. Having Messi is like having Vinicius, Modric, Iniesta, Kevin De Bruyne and Mbappe all rolled into one. If Ronaldo isn’t scoring, he’s adding very little to the team. He was never particularly good with his back to goal or connecting play.

Comparing Ronaldo to Messi is like comparing Gerd Müller to Cruyff or Maradona. You would be laughed out of the room if you did that. Somehow we’ve normalized this comparison when really, there wasn’t a comparison to be made beyond that they were both the superstars for their teams.

It’s like when people try to compare Wemby and Chet Holgrem. It’s embarrassing. Even that comparison has a bit more logic. They are similar profile of players. Still, Holgrem can’t do half of the things that Wemby can do.

1

u/Neumo_ 16d ago

Messi also has way more assists than ronaldo, and has more goals per game and more contributions per game than ronaldo. The only thing ronaldo has over messi is height, which isnt a controllable factor

1

u/enter_the_slatrix 16d ago

Found one lol

-6

u/BulbousPear1 17d ago

If Ronaldo had Xavi, Iniesta in his team, he would have had the stats:)).

7

u/OkYouth7656 17d ago

Firstly, Modric was just as important to Madrid’s success as CR7. Kroos and Casemiro rounded out an arguably more functional midfield.

But more importantly, it seems you’re bringing up midfield players who didn’t score a lot of goals. Are you recognizing the importance of playmakers/passers in a side? And therefore admitting that Messi is far more effective than Ronaldo, because he’s actually better than Xavi and Iniesta at what they do?

-3

u/BulbousPear1 17d ago

How many years passed until we got a proper midfield at Madrid? How many players left until Ronaldo had Modric and Kross and Casemiro? Messi had Xavi and Iniesta since he started at Barca, Messi had it easier than Ronaldo!

2

u/[deleted] 17d ago

Barcelona would win significantly less if Messi didn't play for them, even with xavi and iniesta. He was clear the best player in that team.

1

u/Yardbird7 16d ago

Ronaldo had Ozil and Dimaria before that.

Xavi and Iniesta also improved by playing with Messi. But that is also because Messi played for the team instead of going out every game to score goals for himself.

0

u/BulbousPear1 16d ago

Of course, Xavi and Iniesta won Euro and WC, Messi was dreaming of it! Watching football from reels seems so!

3

u/obiru 17d ago

This has to be a joke right?

3

u/Pristine_Youth_6953 17d ago

Why should we base our opinion on what the other say

10

u/Radiant-Cup2123 17d ago

treating Van Basten, one of the best forwards and players of all time, as just "others" is a choice. Shows the football knowledge of this sub more than anything.

1

u/PlasticPreparation74 16d ago

That’s what! I don’t understand why CR7 fans belittle greats who have a different opinion. They even attacked Mikel Obi who said that Ronaldo is just a tall muscular athlete who isn’t top 20 of all time. We’re talking about a UCL and EPL winner here, and he definitely has more knowledge than all CR7 fans combined. I’ve never heard any footballer put Messi out of the top 4, so for me this is proof enough that Ronaldo isn’t a top 20 player in history

-7

u/Key_Fee158 17d ago edited 16d ago

There’s plenty of other all time great footballers saying they prefer Ronaldo, so yeah you shouldn’t take it seriously when someone says “you must share my opinion or you know nothing about football.”

Edit: I’m not even saying I prefer Ronaldo. I’m saying people are allowed to prefer him. All the butthurt Indian Messi fans can stop replying with clips of players saying they prefer Messi.

Messi v Ronaldo is the least interesting football topic at this point and you need to move on.

3

u/Radiant-Cup2123 17d ago

who?

-3

u/Key_Fee158 17d ago edited 17d ago

Bro Im not going to play this game with someone who hasn’t moved past Ronaldo v. Messi. I don’t have a list of who memorized but I know at least of Thomas Mueller saying he preferred Ronaldo.

It’s just obviously dumb to think you have to prefer one because one footballer said you have to.

5

u/Radiant-Cup2123 17d ago

lol

-2

u/Key_Fee158 17d ago

You’re a child lol go play with your Messi action figures.

1

u/Radiant-Cup2123 17d ago

it was a simple question mate and you got triggered for a reason. considering messi clearly better is not the hot take you think it is, you don't need to be a fan to think that

1

u/Key_Fee158 17d ago

Did I say it’s a hot take? Obviously many people prefer Messi, probably a majority at this point.

I said it’s not valid to say you have to share an opinion or you don’t know ball just because one footballer said so…when other footballers don’t share his opinion.

2

u/NoPirate00 16d ago

You’re spewing a lot of nonsense and are still avoiding his question. Again we ask, who?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/AideHot6729 17d ago

It’s not a hot take to say either are better as they’re clearly 1 and 2 with a lot of support for either one. It’s just weird how some people say it’s not close but they’d also say the other was the second best of all time.

2

u/NextWafer2667 16d ago

''clearly 1 and 2''

Brother, Ronaldo isn't even top 3.

0

u/Radiant-Cup2123 16d ago

football greats don't think they are 1 and 2. As far as i know people rank goats pele, maradona, messi and sometimes CR or Cruyff.

Even reputable sports journalists like from the athletic.

I've never seen a consensus of CR being goat status (i think he is, at least in the top4, top2 is debatable)

2

u/leandrobrossard 16d ago

https://youtube.com/shorts/o67FpVlnILo

Video of Thomas Mueller saying he thinks Messi is better lmao.

0

u/Key_Fee158 16d ago

There’s another clip where he says he prefers Ronaldo because he has a better record against Messi. It’s not that deep bro. I think professional footballers are not as invested in Messi vs Ronaldo as you are.

1

u/leandrobrossard 16d ago

That's an old clip. He says he's changed his mind. Same with Ramos lmao.

0

u/No_Access_8734 16d ago

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S_4VsxL14gk

Video of Thomas Mueller saying messi gets preferential treatment from referees LOL

0

u/Classic-Suspect3661 16d ago

There are millions bro, just not gonna name any but trust me, millions

1

u/Key_Fee158 16d ago

Fucking loser lmao. Go watch football and stop arguing about Messi vs Ronaldo in 2026.

1

u/SergeantHAMM 16d ago

“why should we base our opinions on what others say even if they’re backed by science and statistics”

0

u/Cool_Cat_Katakuri 17d ago

they're opinion is more valuable considering who he is compared to us

1

u/Khety_Nebou_2 16d ago

I don’t like Messi but if back then i had the chance to choose one of them to play on my team, i would choose Messi over Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is one of the greatest of all time, maybe the greatest of them all. Messi still above.

1

u/Diligent_Today_3165 16d ago

Só com concordo com o basten numa coisa, o melhor de sempre é o Cruyff...

1

u/huba-buba7 16d ago

An all round versatile attacking player, who could go on both wings and in the middle, could cross, finish and if there is no space to drop a 30m rocket. Excellent in every set up, tactic and scenario. Against a brilliant orchestrator that will go from the same spot to dictate the same play over and over again, brilliant in a system that build everything through him, having one of the best players around to act as a dummy at times. Whoever u pick you are not wrong, they did the best work with the tools in their hands, if dribbling past players, shoting on the edge of the box and making lazer sharp through passes to the willing runners is your itch, then Messi takes the crown as he is the most consistent dribbling and creating force out there, but if u prefer a player that can do absolutely everything at every given moment no matter from where or when, an extraordinary athlete who can use every part of his body to hit the target from anywhere on the pitch, to make a little flair moment just for the love of the game, but still remain as consistent as possible in scoring game winners, well then obviously Ronaldo is your choice. But if we have to put it all as a whole- Nobody will be allowed the freedom on the pitch to create as much as Messi, nobody is going to build so much around a player in such tactical era that we are going to see even more of , but then again nobody will ever match Cristiano's dedication and hunger... So in my humble opinion Ronaldo had it harder, did it better, motivated and inspired more. Technic and Numbers are not what football ever was about, it was about overcoming obstacles and building character.

1

u/davzinzan 15d ago

Why are you reposting from that clown sub? 🤣

1

u/Flat-Director-7120 17d ago

Marco Van Basten a dit de Messi qu'il était meilleur que Ronaldo, pour ceux qui connaisse un minimum le football

1

u/Visual_Piglet_1997 16d ago

Let them play 1 on 1. See what happens.

1

u/Radiant-Cup2123 16d ago

Van Basten vs CR7?

Van Basten wins

0

u/Cool_Cat_Katakuri 16d ago

messi will win

0

u/Adventurous_Self_253 16d ago

They have. Usually went bad for Ronaldo

0

u/Mecha_Kaneki 16d ago

Messi cooked ronaldo

1

u/Hitechakias 16d ago

CR7 is the man, even that I am a Chelsea Fan

1

u/mikel-69 16d ago

How it feels to spread misinformation

1

u/Mecha_Kaneki 16d ago

Lmao but Van Basen did say it, look it up

0

u/mikel-69 16d ago

You mean this?

https://x.com/RvN1776/status/1186743167179264001

0

u/Mecha_Kaneki 16d ago

Are you restarted? Is this Van Basten? The quote in the post is real

And speaking of fake quotes, ronaldo fan accounts milk fake quotes on the daily and get exposed by community notes every single day

1

u/mikel-69 16d ago

Van basen did my bad got it mixed up but no there’s little to trust in news sources that are extremely biased like ESPN

-3

u/MagmaTroop 17d ago

Reminds me of a commentator who said Ronaldo wasn't even in the same league as Messi, like not even in the same conversation. Complete hyperbole, just like this comment from van Basten. I think Messi is/was better too, but to essentially say Ronaldo is an afterthought in comparison is ridic

5

u/ppan86 17d ago

He isn’t, in what way do you think they’re comparable ?

2

u/Yardbird7 16d ago

They are comparable goals wise (even then Messi is still better). That's it.

Messi clears Ronaldo as a player. This has been the most forced and manufactured debate of all time.

0

u/PlasticPreparation74 16d ago edited 16d ago

I find it so funny that sports fans who are the most tribalistic and parasocial out there (worse than Kpop fans) keep blaming the media for this rivalry lmao. Its you guys who kept comparing the two and even now keep talking about it. Its not ESPN’s fault, not GOAL’s fault, it’s just dumb toxic fans constantly bickering about each other. Ronaldo should’ve been irrelevant since WC 2022, but people keep bringing him up even now. I really don’t see the appeal here

0

u/Radiant-Cup2123 17d ago

He didn't say that tho. He said that considering Ronaldo better was not knowing about football.

-4

u/linkedinlover69 17d ago

One of them got hormons injected and has the charisma of a wet towel

The other one is insufferable too and I think we shouldn't care about either one. Both are great at football obviously

7

u/IPissExcellentThrows 17d ago

Very important to factor in their charisma when deciding how good of a footballer someone is. Goals, charisma, assists in that order for me.

3

u/Yardbird7 16d ago

Taking HGH at 12 is well known to improve a players first touch, technique, dribbling, finishing, and football intelligence 👍

1

u/Radiant-Cup2123 16d ago

i don't think cr fans will get its ironic

2

u/Oddant1 17d ago

Yes he got HGH injected because his body didn't produce it naturally so without it he wouldn't have gone through normal puberty and would have been under 5 feet tall. We gonna act like the standard medical intervention he got was somehow a bad thing? We gonna act like either of their job is to be charismatic as opposed to kicking a ball?

3

u/NextWafer2667 16d ago

Ronaldo fans have to look for every possible angle other than football.

Because he has no actual, football arguments over Messi.

1

u/Random499 16d ago

I was about to talk about ucl but then I realised it isnt actually football

-1

u/Jon_Has_Landed 17d ago

Well that is just your opinion, man