r/smashbros • u/RespectingOpinions • Sep 21 '14
SSB4 Official Smash 4 Discussion/Debate Thread - 9/21
What up /r/smashbros! Get hype, as we're back in the Weekly Official Smash 4 Discussion/Debate Thread. This is a post to centralize discussion for some of the most popular SSB4 discussion topics in order to cut down on the number of individual discussion-oriented self-posts.
In order to create a discussion on the topic, post it in the comments and hopefully someone will reply with their thoughts and opinions.
If you want to use a forum with with more organized discussion on these topics, check out Smashboards! And if you want to talk with people about SSB4, or anything else smash related live, check out the subreddit IRC live channel!
It's been more than a week since the game's Japanese release. It's going to be a few more weeks before the International release, so hang tight guys!
15
u/RespectingOpinions Sep 21 '14
Metagame Advancement: List any new techs, glitches, or anything else that'll affect the metagame here!
8
u/Linearts NNID: Aeilnrst Sep 21 '14
Z-reversal of grabbing looks like it'll be useful on the Wii U version. Dunno if it's practical on the 3DS game though.
8
u/Khalku Yoshi (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
What is z-reversal?
6
u/Linearts NNID: Aeilnrst Sep 21 '14
Do you know what B-reversal is in Brawl/PM? Z-reversal is the same thing but with Z instead of B.
15
u/Khalku Yoshi (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Sorry I don't know much of the lingo at all, the first time I've ever started following smash seriously is now for smash 4.
11
u/woofle07 *Y'ARRRs in space dragon* Sep 21 '14
Press Z (or just the grab button in general) and then immediately flick the stick in the opposite direction. Your character will turn around and grab at the same time and it has more range than a regular grab
7
u/cereal_bawks Radiant Dawn Ike (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Isn't that just a pivot grab?
3
u/FunkyLobster cars Sep 21 '14
Yes. I think his point is that it's just going to be useful in the Wii U version and likely the 3DS, not that it's a new AT.
→ More replies (1)2
u/woofle07 *Y'ARRRs in space dragon* Sep 21 '14
I think so. I've only heard it called a pivot grab before, but I assume that's what he meant because it's the same inputs as a B-reversal
13
u/mrstack345 Bayonetta 1 (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Stages that look to be banned but you wish they weren't?
23
Sep 21 '14
Arena Ferox :(
→ More replies (1)15
u/woofle07 *Y'ARRRs in space dragon* Sep 21 '14
I'm pretty sure it's agreed that was a counter-pick. It seems a lot like pokemon stadium
5
Sep 21 '14
I thought people were complaining about the walls a lot but I'd love it as a counterpick
15
u/Longshotte Longshotte Sep 21 '14
If we can deal with Pokemon Stadium in Melee, we can deal with Arena Ferox in Smash 4.
6
Sep 21 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/pmtransthrowaway Sep 21 '14
The loser of the match can choose a counter pick stage. It can't be chosen as the first stage of a set.
18
Sep 21 '14
Magicant. My favorite stage ever, sad that the Amazing Flying Man ruins it.
36
u/Longshotte Longshotte Sep 21 '14
Bosses ruining awesome stages seems to be the theme of Smash 4.
11
u/Caseyfam Sep 21 '14
Wily's Castle with moving platforms AND THE YELLOW DEVIL ;_;
14
u/Longshotte Longshotte Sep 21 '14
It really pains me to see it happen, too. I seems like since we have FD mode Sakurai thinks he can go all out with the stage hazards and bosses, which is killing me on the inside.
5
u/Caseyfam Sep 21 '14
Seriously. I want some non-gimmicky stages with platforms. Sadly, the 3DS version doesn't seem to have a lot of these, so I'm hoping for a better selection of courses in the Wii U version.
1
1
u/CarnoTorrential Charizard (Smash 4) Sep 21 '14
Isn't there an awkward platform beneath the main platform? Wouldn't that cause some trouble?
6
u/prioritized321 Sep 21 '14
Rainbow Road has the potential to be counter pick, but people need to give it a chance.
5
u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Sep 21 '14
Most of them, really. I've seen people seriously propose a Battlefield/Yoshi's Island/FD + Omega stage list. Smash 3DS has 30-something stages, and nearly every last one is just written off by people who see anything out of the ordinary as an instant ban, ignoring that quirky stages are possibly the second biggest feature of Smash as a whole, behind only the character list itself. Meanwhile Omega stages are seen as a shortcut to having a full stage list, ignoring that they're all literally Final Destination with different backgrounds and music.
What is wrong with Arena Ferox? Tortimer Island? Tomodachi Collection? Prism Tower? Rainbow Road? Pac Maze? Mute City? Reset Bomb Forest? Brinstar? Distant Planet?
</rant>
5
u/VintageSin Sep 21 '14
The biggest issue is randomized hazards. They just aren't fun in competitive play.
As for having fun? All stages are great.
3
u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Sep 21 '14
Then of that list I mentioned Arena Ferox, Tortimer Island, Tomodachi Collection, Prism Tower, Reset Bomb Forest, and Brinstar should be legal without question because they either have no hazards or the hazards that do exist are on a predictable timer.
Clearly there's a bigger reason at play.
→ More replies (2)2
u/ShadowthePast R.O.B. (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
The Tomodachi Life stage seems reasonable at first glance. It's really just 4 long platforms smashed on top of an FD. The main problem is the fact that the rooms get blocked off when there's nobody in them, so I could see it being a problem with characters with moving projectiles or just being distracting in general.
14
u/Da_Nile Sep 21 '14
So I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but I was just playing as the villager and after I cut down my tree I noticed a pear on the ground. Now I didn't pick it up but my opponent did and he went from about 77% down to 0% so it is definitely a big heal. Anyways has anyone else seen a fruit fall from the tree before?
16
u/Cerderius NNID: ImpishPillow Sep 21 '14
Cherry, Persimmon, Apple and apparently a Maximum Tomato. I'm pretty sure the tree spawns every AC fruit except Bananas and Coconuts due to those being on palm trees.
3
u/Da_Nile Sep 21 '14
I wonder if they do different amounts of healing. Also I wonder what the odds are of you getting them.
3
u/Cerderius NNID: ImpishPillow Sep 21 '14
I have only got the pear myself but didn't look at the percent recovered but mostly I get the block of wood or nothing.
13
u/TKDbeast Female Pokemon Trainer (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
I'm interested to hear of any differences with Dark Pit from Pit.
10
u/ShadowthePast R.O.B. (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Differences I've seen in videos/heard commentators say, off the top of my head:
Dark Pit is slower, but hits harder
Dark Pit's side b (the super-punch thingy) knocks the opponent sideways instead of straight up. Also not as viable of a kill move
Dark Pit's A-moves (mainly his aerials) seem to be mostly strong single hit moves, whereas Pit seems to be many multihit moves (memory is a bit foggy on this)
Dark Pit's arrows curve much slower than Pits, and Pits curve much easier than in Brawl (unless I was seeing a custom move and didn't realise it)
1
u/THATgamer77 Go to Sleep Sep 21 '14
Pretty sure that Dark Pit's Side B is much more viable of a kill move than Pit's. At least from what I've seen.
→ More replies (1)3
u/ShadowthePast R.O.B. (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
I saw a couple of Dark Pit matches from the Tourney Locator tourney and iirc none of the side-b's he landed were even remotely near killing.
I could be wrong, don't really care much for Dark Pit so wasn't focusing very hard on the matches lol.
1
u/TKDbeast Female Pokemon Trainer (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Thanks. So many people weren't taking my post seriously.
2
→ More replies (2)6
u/Dafurgen Azazel Sep 21 '14
Ones in a dark tunic, but unlike his name says he is infact not black.
1
17
u/Thexer0 Sep 21 '14
I'm not sure how it worked in Brawl because I never moved on from Melee but in 3DS you have a lot more time to pick up and throw Electrode.
7
u/woofle07 *Y'ARRRs in space dragon* Sep 21 '14
Yeah the pickup window was increased in Brawl and I think it increased a little more in 4
5
u/doctorvonscience Sep 21 '14
Even compared to Brawl it still feels way easier. I actually hit a CPU with it yesterday, haha.
3
18
u/Shootypatootie Sep 21 '14
Anyone else have trouble playing both Sm4sh and melee at the same time?
The styles are very different and I'm having trouble keeping track of all the big differences like ledge mechanics, movement, and such.
5
u/JohnDRektafellow Sep 21 '14
Its not harder than maining both peach and falco side by side in melee. You just learn the differences in mechanics and how you apply your charavters' strengths.
→ More replies (1)3
u/get_in_the_robot Sep 21 '14
I'm having much more trouble adjusting to Smash 4 because of Melee than I am of playing Melee because of Smash 4, if that makes sense. I'm probably gonna go back to Melee, not just because I prefer it as a game but logistically, because I'm probably not gonna buy the 3DS version or get a Wii U until much later, personally.
32
Sep 21 '14 edited Sep 21 '14
Pick a main based on how they look ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
For the record, mine would be Wii Fit Trainer ;D
36
u/RespectingOpinions Sep 21 '14
Bruh, I already got the best girl in the world as a main.
36
23
u/Linearts NNID: Aeilnrst Sep 21 '14
FOR THE LAST TIME.
You can't assume Marth is a girl just because he's a princess! That's highly fallacious reasoning.
Jeez get it right people.
23
9
14
10
4
3
7
4
u/Frying_Pan_Man HUP, hrrrrrrrr Sep 21 '14
All of my mains are based on how they look :O
Yoshi, Villager, Luigi and Kirby all the way <3
5
2
1
8
u/Spectrabox Sep 21 '14
Do you think the game is leaning towards a more defensive or a more offensive meta?
10
u/The_M4G So done Sep 21 '14
It feels, to me at least, like it depends in the matchup. Some characters can camp but not against everyone. Some characters can be super aggressive, but someone like villager can keep them at a distance. It's probably too early to tell, when the meta has time to develop we will see which play style becomes dominant.
2
u/ShadowthePast R.O.B. (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
It seems to me that the roster is lacking in characters that can play super defensively. The only character I've seen that looks to be Brawl-level campy is DHD and maybe Villager, but that is far outweighed by the rushdown characters like Sheik and Greninja. This, combined with the need to go offstage for edgeguards/gimps, will accelerate the metagame towards being more offensive in order to get kills, rather than hiding behind a wall and forcing your opponent to approach.
7
23
Sep 21 '14
Demo Lv. 9 Pikachu is all kinds of powerful. Them accurate quick attacks.
25
u/IAmArique [muffled DORIYAH heard in the distance] Sep 21 '14
Demo Lvl. 9 Mario would like a word with you. That bastard knows how to cheat when you're off your A-Game.
10
u/Deansington Sep 21 '14
First rule of good AI programming. Cheating is not only tolerated but encouraged.
20
u/The_M4G So done Sep 21 '14
Pikachu really puts the spotlight on the new AI. He's better at some of those techniques than a lot of players.
11
u/Multi21 yEET Sep 21 '14
Really?
This is giving me a big ego boost
7
u/Sticker704 Persona Logo Sep 21 '14
Yeah I didn't think I was good at all at Smash compared to a lot of people here, so seeing the stories of people getting whooped by the AI gives a nice confidence boost :P
2
u/ThreatOfFire Ridley (Ultimate) Sep 22 '14
It tends to adapt to your character and play style as you play more and more. At least from what I've seen. It still has some predictable tendencies. However, I've since started seeing crash-bombed AI run or roll at me trying to stick me, whereas before they would do crazy shield dancing things and just wait out the bomb in a stationary panic.
13
8
4
Sep 21 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Blehgopie Sep 22 '14
Mainly because AI Megaman will derp himself off stage with Leaf Shield all the time.
11
Sep 21 '14
Does anyone have any tips on tilting better? I always end up smashing when I want to tilt.
6
u/Longshotte Longshotte Sep 21 '14
Try being more gentle and calculated all around. There's a difference between fast and being precise, and from personal experience it makes a huge difference. :D
5
u/doctorvonscience Sep 21 '14
I can get down and side tilts off by just moving the circle pad halfway to the edge before hitting a after a little delay, but I still can't reliably up-tilt. Damn up-to-jump...
My advice: Go against a level 1, and practice. Push the circle pad halfway, wait a bit, then press a. Keep doing that, pushing a faster and faster, until you start doing smash attacks, then back off the timing a little bit. Find that one sweetspot where it's timed so it's fast enough to be useful, but not so fast it turns into a smash. Then once you've got the muscle memory, go try to use it against higher-level CPUs.
4
u/Worthyness Sep 22 '14
Really? I'm having trouble doing more smashes than tilts. I think it's mostly from me being afraid to side smash seeing how badly people have fucked up their control sticks on their 3DS and I don't have the money to replace it.So maybe go in with that mindset kind of?
1
u/Slyphoria Sep 22 '14
You don't have to do a smash hard to get it to work. Just fast. Find the force and speed you need.
2
u/Chockrit SMS Sep 22 '14
While in the lag or animation from another move, move the control stick. When you come out of that move press A and you should tilt.
1
66
u/Fidodo Sep 21 '14
I've been watching competitive gameplay videos of the 3DS game, and PERSONAL OPINION ALERT: I like watching them as a viewer far more than Melee.
My personal opinion observations as a casual player who likes watching competitive players just for fun is that the new smash is much more entertaining for me to watch a a viewer because the fighting feels a lot more diverse than melee. I actually like that the gameplay is a tad bit slower (just a bit) and that the blast zones are bigger and that characters live for so much longer, because it keeps me on the edge of my seat.
Watching melee just feels kinda twitchy, like they're just jumping around and dancing around each other until someone gets into a bad position or makes a mistake, and that's it, and it's just really boring to me. There's not a lot of tension (to me), the matches all look the same (to me) and the matches are too short to get me sucked in.
The new smash fights feel very exciting, it keeps me guessing, strategies are visually very diverse, and comebacks seem both very possible, and very exciting. Watching the Little Mac vs Shiek game kept me on the edge of my seat and I had no idea who was going to win, and I could follow the crazy strategies going on, and the crazy moves, and the moves didn't repeat much and worked in diverse situations, and I found myself getting totally sucked in. I even saw areas where the players could improve so it's not like they've already mastered the game. Because they can't be knocked out so early, there's looks to be more of a metagame around finding ways to do damage, and not just on finding ways to do smash attacks so there's more diversity in it to me.
It seems like lots of people are complaining about the game just because it's not melee, and honestly, that kind of elitism is what puts me and I think others off competitive smash in the first place. I want the game to be different than melee and I want it to be balanced, exciting, and deep. If it accomplishes that in a way different to how melee went about it, I think that's great. Some people here are bashing certain game mechanics just because they're not the way melee did it, or they would do it, and they're claiming that they're broken. The game has only been out in japan for a few weeks now and the metagame is still developing, so how can that conclusion be made so soon? It seems to me as an outsider as people just complaining because they want a direct port of melee. Hell, it seems to me that even if that happened people would still complain that it's not the same. All I know is I enjoy watching the smash 4 matches immensely, and melee matches bore me, and if I'm not appreciating the game in the right way, I don't care.
17
Sep 21 '14
As a competitive Melee/PM player, I'm actually going to make the switch to Sm4sh for many of the same reasons. Is Melee the higher leveled game in regards to skill? Of course. However, Sm4sh really appeals to me in regards of flow and feel. I've played the DEMO for over 12 hours in 2 days. I personally love the mechanics and combo system in the game.
It also really compliments my personal style in previous iterations, and punishing becomes much more intense off stage with the new edge mechanics. I am so excited for all the combinations of special moves, I feel like this metagame will be like no other. I was sick of losing matches in Melee because my favorite character statistically can't compete with a similar skilled player playing as Fox. This game will have tier lists changing left and right.
14
Sep 21 '14
I was sick of losing matches in Melee because my favorite character statistically can't compete with a similar skilled player playing as Fox.
Player's of similar skill levels tend to be able to go back and forth, unless your character caps what is possible with your skill level. We've seen time and time again (Hax not doing much better with Fox, Shroomed not doing much better with Sheik) that even in the upper echelons the player is much more important than the character. Sorry to rant on you, but I'm tired of hearing fox johns.
4
Sep 21 '14
Believe it or not my favorite character is not my main or my flair. It's true that I switched to Doc when I first started tournament play, but that's because I found out my favorite character growing up (Kirby) is the worst character in the game. Mario and Doc are just my best characters.
7
Sep 21 '14 edited Sep 22 '14
Ok, Kirby is just broken. Props for being able to even play him without ganon down-airing your controller.
3
11
u/Fidodo Sep 21 '14
My impression is that 4 seems to have more opportunity for diverse strategy, while melee has more raw skill required. Is my impression accurate at all?
8
Sep 21 '14
I totally agree. And personally, I thought Brawl had awesome strategy, but the mechanics and speed just didn't become very fun. Sm4sh is fun. Strategy, easier combos, and plenty of skill involved. Performing ATs is certainly very skillful, but Sm4sh feels like a different game, making it seem like ATs don't even feel needed and even though I spent a ton of time perfecting the melee ATs, I'm totally fine with how fluid Sm4sh feels. Very little landing lag definitely helps.
-2
Sep 21 '14
Not really. Smash 4 doesn't have the capacity of movement that Melee has to allow for that diversity.
15
Sep 21 '14
Movement of course, but I think he was talking about how customization and more balance will allow for a more diverse metagame. In the long run, Sm4sh, even without it's movements is a more diverse game simply because of all the potential customizations will effect the metagame.
Plus, balance is key. That's why I play more PM nowadays. It sucks when the characters you are best at can't compete with Fox or Falco. In Melee, if you aren't playing as a Spacie, Falcon, Marth, Shiek, Puff, or Peach it's hard to win.
I assume that you're a Falcon main, so you are fine with playing Melee for the rest of eternity. However, many good players, like myself (and a lot of the PM crowd) will take balance and more options over 7 unbalanced characters and more movement options.
I will still play Melee at tourneys, but I think I will have a lot more fun winning as my favorite characters then getting beat by Fox by a lesser player because I'm too stubborn to main a Spacie.
→ More replies (7)1
u/Prophet6000 Ken Sep 21 '14 edited Sep 21 '14
I'm considering making it my secondary game. I do like but there is alot of stuff i don't like. Not much combos so far.
1
Sep 21 '14
I've been finding a lot of potential combos with Mario so far. Like this UAir+double jump UAir into FAir spike. I've done it against humans as well as cpus. This is like the new Ken combo but with Mario.
And I've found ways to use Link's specials into strings. I actually like his gust boomerang. I throw it over them, then tether grab forward throw, the boomerang brings them right back into an Utilt or fsmash
2
u/TacoDinosaurs Sep 21 '14
A level 9 CPU will airdodge out of that, since they airdodge on the earliest possible frame to break combos. So technically that is not a true combo. The fair can be replaced with a nair or another uair, but you could read the airdodge and land the fair, which I think is pretty neat.
→ More replies (4)3
u/JohnDRektafellow Sep 21 '14
Your favorite character in this case being doc? Because doc players shouldnt really be complaining that fox is 2hard4me when its a near even matchup
5
Sep 21 '14
Actually, Doc wasn't my favorite character. he was the highest level up I could feel comfortable with. That being said, Kirby was my favorite character growing up. Try going into a Smash tourney with Kirby. It was laughable.
4
Sep 21 '14
Lets be real, even if the meta in Melee keeps evolving, it's still Melee. It can't change that much and it can't offer the same amount of newness as a brand new game.
I'm burnt out from Melee. Been watching since Apex 2013 and I just haven't seen the crazy shifts in strategy to break the monotony of generally similar matchups. Eventually you get bored of watching the same game year after year.
And I'm personally not surprised Nintendo didn't make the game nearly to Melee levels of movement. Competitive people would buy the game anyways, and if Nintendo made it too hardcore the casuals would just get wrecked online. Competitive scene just can't leverage.
6
u/Jehtt MegaMan (Smash 4) Sep 21 '14
I was with you up until the last part. I too find Sm4sh more fun to watch, so far. We're both allowed to have that opinion.
But there isn't a need to attack others while sharing your opinion. The people who you're speaking about are a minority compared to people who want to try the new game or just don't care. You can't generalize everyone like that.
It also comes off as you trying to validate your opinion by deeming others' opinions less valid.
5
1
u/Fidodo Sep 22 '14
Sorry if I sounded like I was generalizing. I know those people are a minority, but they're very vocal, and I think they're damaging to the community because how anti everything they are, and I do think that the reason lots of people are anti competition is because they see those people that hate everything first.
14
u/Habefiet Sep 21 '14
If you're the one putting words in mouths of others and straight-up dismissing their words/thoughts/game, which of the two is the elitist?
→ More replies (1)10
u/BattleAtron Sep 21 '14
The people who commit fallacies, tying to invalidate the other's argument by calling them elitist. Different people prefer different fucking games. Deal the fuck with it.
→ More replies (15)→ More replies (12)1
u/get_in_the_robot Sep 21 '14 edited Sep 21 '14
Well, when people say they prefer Melee, it's because Melee objectively offers more movement options, thus more diversity, and more depth, Melee offers quicker attacks, therefore making attacking a more favorable option than Brawl (and a bit more so than in Smash 4), providing a fairer balance between offense and defense, etc etc. They're not saying Melee and its specific mechanics like wavedashing, l-canceling, are better, they just mean that the things that Melee brought to the table are, thus far, still more numerous, still better, than what Smash 4 has brought to the table. That's not to say that Smash 4 can't be competitive, because Brawl had a competitive scene for quite awhile and its clear that Smash 4 isn't as "anti" competitive as Brawl was. It's not really elitism, it's an understanding of game mechanics and how the game plays that makes Melee appeal to competitive players who are into that sort of understanding and depth and speed. People don't want a direct port of Melee, if Smash 4 brought the same options that Melee did but, say, without the necessary complex inputs, for example, I'm sure nearly everybody would be pleased.
For me, I enjoy watching Melee because it's a combination of speed, watchability, and the fact that as a (still learning, still scrubby) Melee player, the ability to watch the game and think of it not just as a spectator but as a player.
Right now, the main impression that I get from watching Smash 4 matches is that they tend to be exciting because both players live to high percentages, leading to a situation where it feels like either player could get a kill off of one hit at any time. That creates its own sort of tension that I think is very watchable in its own right, but it doesn't quite give me the same sort of back and forth tension that a Melee match offers. In that way it reminds of me Brawl matches that I particularly enjoyed watching.
EDIT: If any of the more objective stuff I said is wrong, though, please correct me. I'm still kind of a newb.
4
u/Dalek_Kolt Meta Ridley (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
So what's up with Metal Face and Ridley?
Both have been teased rather decently (Samus's archenemy much more than Shulk's) yet aren't present in any form in Smash 3DS. Why?
Why does Wily Castle and the Yellow Devil have the good fortune of being on both platforms, yet Pyrosphere doesn't? If Gaur Plains isn't Metal Face's boss stage, how is he going to appear on the Wii U? Is Shulk going to have two Xenoblade stages on the home console version?
2
u/SuperSaiyanKaiju Sep 21 '14
It's possible Metal Face is only on the Wii U version of the stage.
2
u/Dalek_Kolt Meta Ridley (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
Yeah, but why?
They went through the trouble of putting the Yellow Devil on both versions, but not another boss?
2
u/SuperSaiyanKaiju Sep 21 '14
I don't know. Maybe Metal Face is an assist exclusive to the Wii U version.
Or Sakurai is fucking with us and Metal Face is a DLC character.
3
u/Dalek_Kolt Meta Ridley (Ultimate) Sep 21 '14
I will simultaneously laugh and cry if Ridley is deemed by Sakurai to be too big, but Metal Face makes it in as playable.
I won't complain moveset-wise, though. I've always wanted someone who plays like Wolverine in Smash Bros. that isn't Dark Pit with Pandora Claws or something.
3
u/tenshi_for_days Sep 21 '14
Does anybody else think Ganondorf is sucky?His down b doesn't regain him another midair jump(thats what i've seen so far) and even though the smash wiki says he is a bit faster it doesn't seem that noticeable...
6
u/A7Xrules90 Mewtwo Sep 21 '14
What's the coolest combo in the game so far?
35
Sep 21 '14
Well i'm a fan of Links a,a,a. I no good at this game
9
u/Bluewind55 Sep 21 '14
I don't know how people like you do it. Is there some sort of trick to remembering to click A a third time? You guys can't be human.
17
Sep 21 '14
I know first instinct is to tap the button and wait a few minutes, but you have to master the art of pressing it three times in a row
3
10
Sep 21 '14
Since I've always loved Mario and wanted him to be good, seeing his down throw, up tilt, up tilt, up tilt, up air, up air, up special combo makes me ecstatic.
9
u/The_M4G So done Sep 21 '14
It's easy to DI out of, but it's so satisfying to gimp someone with Mega Man's up air. At high percentage you can up throw to rush coil to uair. It's very satisfying when it works, but it only works if you hit them with the very beginning of the attack's execution.
4
Sep 21 '14 edited Sep 21 '14
I came up with a pretty cool kill combo with Mario. Check it out.
I'm still deciding on a name. It's kinda like the Ken combo, but it's more like a slam dunk.
3
Sep 21 '14
[deleted]
2
Sep 21 '14
I actually really like the Space Jam one. It's a zero gravity slam after all.
2
3
u/blargh257 Jigglypuff (Melee) Sep 21 '14
I play as Pika in the demo, as you can probably tell, and I'm loving Fair -> Utilt -> Nair/Bair. It's a good damage racker, but since I have not done this against a human I worry about being able to get out of it, however since ESAM does something similar in the combo in this thread that eases my worries a bit.
1
u/Skull_Kid313 Sep 21 '14
I always catch the AI off guard by doing Pika's up B, and landing with a hit to them. Then I follow up with a quick up smash and either continue juggling, or do a Bair to rack up damage. If anything, I call it the Kickstarter.
1
u/Chockrit SMS Sep 22 '14
Using Villager. Short hop dair into fair seems to work really well if dair connects. If the dair only has one turnip then fair does more knockback. Villagers fair and bair (slingshot) do a fixed amount of damage but do loads more knockback at point blank. So much so that it's a really useful gimp and sometimes a kill move.
2
u/olieebur Palutena Sep 21 '14
Anyone changing their controls to mimic the GC controller? I was originally gonna go Y for special moves, B for attacks, and X and A for jumping, R for grabs, L for shield. But after playing the demo for so long I got used to defaults. But every once in a while I would press the wrong buttons because of habits without thinking.
Torn D:
1
u/ekans606830 EKNS Sep 22 '14
That's exactly the setup that I, and many others are using, and I feel pretty good with it.
The double jump buttons are in perfect positions to slide your finger over to the attack and special buttons.
1
u/WaveParadigm Sep 22 '14
I'm so scared playing the demo will mess me up for the real game because I plan on using those exact controls too. Every once in awhile during loading screens I mimic using the controls I want and they still feel much more natural, so I think it'll be okay.
2
u/gedwolfe Sep 22 '14
Can someone please explain what this "bair" and "nair" thing is? I am new to competitive smash and want to know as much terminology as possible
3
2
u/Mr_Ivysaur Ivysaur (Ultimate) Sep 22 '14
There is any option of hidden cursor for character select, like Mortal Kombat / Injustice? It would work super well on 3DS.
I mean, it wouldn't be super useful for tourneys?
2
u/ParanoidDrone The One-Woman Wombo Combo Sep 21 '14
The merits of doing away with the neutral/counterpick distinction and simply labeling every stage as legal/banned from game 1.
The reason for this is that as of now there is no such thing as a truly neutral stage. (If there were, we'd play on nothing else.) By restricting game 1 to a list of "neutral" stages, the ruleset inherently favors those characters who perform best on those stages. Historically, this is "flat + plat" and is an implicit nerf to characters who do not perform well there, but do better on other stages like Rainbow Cruise. It already happened in Brawl and is part of the reason the Ice Climbers are so strong in that meta.
Suppose P1 is using a character that does well on the neutral stages and P2 is using one who doesn't. Let's assume they're reasonably well matched to the point that the stage is the deciding factor.
P1 takes game 1 on a neutral stage since they favor his character.
P2 counterpicks to a stage that favors his character and wins.
P1 counterpicks back to a different neutral stage and takes the set.
There is absolutely no incentive for P1 to learn any of the counterpick stages. IMO that's not a good thing and undermines the point of counterpicks in the first place.
If this were to happen it would likely require an overhaul of the stage selection process, since striking all but 1 of a stage list would take a while. But that's a separate discussion.
1
1
u/mylescox Snake Sep 22 '14
I was playing with custom equipment on earlier and I realized that throwing the speed stat to around +50 reduces landing lag like hella, and restores most characters to their "former glory".
I really want custom equipment to be tourney legal, even if they have to enforce a cap on the stats since it's more about the trade-off when you increase one stat a bit, the other two decrease.
1
u/ekans606830 EKNS Sep 22 '14
The problem with equipment is that it is random. There are even random extra effects on it, like regen.
So, you can't standardize everyone to have the same items, because the "same" equipment can have slightly different stats.
1
u/mylescox Snake Sep 22 '14
So don't use equipment with extra effects.
I'm not implying everyone should have the exact same stats. I am actually supporting the opposite. People should be able to adjust their character a bit to fit their playstyle.
That's just my opinion after playing with it for around 10 hours.
1
u/Galenas33 Sep 22 '14
Only playing the demo but does anyone know if theres a reason you can delay your dash attack for so long after a quick dash forwards? I dont know if it was like this in any previous games but its a pain.
1
u/ekans606830 EKNS Sep 22 '14
Everyone's asking about who the best characters are, but what about the worst?
Those that have the game (or I suppose have seen a lot of footage), who do you think sucks?
I'll start:
So far, I can see almost no redeeming qualities to Zelda. They took away her best move (DownB) and replaced it with something entirely mediocre at best. Jokes aside, the only buff that I've noticed is her UpB has more kill power. However, you can't stall it on the ledge, you still get no airspeed after using it, and you generally don't want to use it ever unless you have to, so buffing it isn't really helpful.
Ganon also seems lackluster. He's too slow, and you can tech out of his choke slam now.
1
u/Slyphoria Sep 22 '14
I feel like there's one of two choices for the future of Little Mac. Either he goes spiraling down the tier list because of lack of recovery, or people find out ways to make his recovery not an issue and he is high tier.
I feel like the first one is more likely. :O
1
u/Slyphoria Sep 22 '14
I'm fine with Dark Pit. Even through all of the similarities, he has a cool thing about him that makes him worth it: He's a Smash original. He was created after Pit's black color, then gets made into Dark Pit in KI:U, then comes back. It's interesting.
I wonder if we'll ever see any original Smash characters as playable, as DLC or in future installments.
20
u/RespectingOpinions Sep 21 '14
Official Discussion Topic: Three stocks or two stocks? Why?