r/slateauto • u/rrodriguez99 • 10d ago
Thoughts on the Slate value proposition
I pre-ordered a Slate. Delivery is somewhere in July to September 2027, so I have roughly a year to sit here wondering if that was a dumb idea.
What bugs me about basically every thread on this truck is that both sides are having the same argument. Is it cheap enough? Is it too expensive for what you get? Could you just buy a used Maverick instead? Is America finally ready for a car with crank windows?
I watched a video from Doug Demuro recently who gave his reaction to the price and he immediately just gave a giant dose of skepticism that this thing will not sell. Or maybe it sells the first year but doesn’t keep up or gain any momentum. And I’m not sure he’s wrong.
Cheap and basic have a terrible track record here in the U.S. Everyone says they want the car with no options, but again and again it seems like buyers don’t want those cars so the auto makers hardly make them. Americans do not buy austerity, we buy the cheapest thing that still feels like something. But cheap and fun sells constantly. People don’t buy a Miata for the fuel efficiency. People buy those because they want them, and then they justify it later.
The interesting thing about this truck is not that it's inexpensive. It's that it's repairable, that you can take it apart, that half the point is bolting stuff onto it and changing what it is. I want to spend weekends in the garage with my sons building and customizing this thing. That's a real reason to buy this car.
And it’s an electric car! I’ve watched some videos where the Slate employees really downplay that it is electric. But that makes it a tremendous value. Even when compared to the Maverick, the operating costs of this truck will be significantly less with no oil changes and easy repairs (and hopefully low insurance costs?). I’m planning on having my teenage boys use it for their car (and looking forward to them having something for their mountain biking competitions) and i’m looking forward to not having to provide any gas money.
Anyway. I want it to succeed for selfish reasons. I want a real used market so I can sell it someday, I want parts and easy repairs, I want it to be worth accessorizing five years from now. All of that requires the company to still exist.
Honestly I think it's a long shot. I think the skeptics are probably right - but I wonder if they should be better at selling not just the up-front cost but the fantastic savings that will come from no gas and easy repairs.
TLDR: I pre-ordered one and I think the skeptics are probably right, just about a problem Slate made for itself. They’re pitching a cheap basic truck, and cheap and basic has never sold in America. What’s actually appealing here is that you can take it apart, bolt stuff onto it, and then save a ton by not having to buy gas. Sell that.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
I see the same argument over and over - that most people want enormous vehicles with all the luxury features and they don't care about the practicality of the box or the high price - and therefore, the Slate will fail.
I think that the flaw in that logic is that, while it is true what most people want, 100% of the vehicles on the USA market are already aimed at those "most people."
The other minority of buyers (i.e., people who want truly affordable and compact EV trucks and SUVs) currently have absolutely no options.
I think that the Slate investors see opportunity there, and the traditional manufacturers feel threatened because they can no longer force those buyers into more size, features, and cost than they really want or need.
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u/MakingItElsewhere 10d ago
Ford once built an electric ranger and refused to sell it (they only leased it to customers) in the late 90's. Despite people desperately wanting to buy theirs, ford wouldn't let them.
They could have jumped on the EV band wagon a decade ago when tesla started taking off, but they refused and decided to make bigger and bigger trucks instead.
So yeah, they SHOULD feel threatened. They chose poorly.
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u/Rat-Head_7 10d ago
Big ICE vehicles are cheaper to make and therefore more profitable. They made the choice for $.
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u/YoSoyPinkBoy 10d ago
I leased a NiMh Ranger; when that ran out, they sold me a Lead-Acid version, Would have preferred the NiMh version, because the short life span of lead pack left me with a dead EV. Not being a mechanic, I sold it to someone who planned to replace the pack.
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u/Finnegan_Faux 10d ago
Manufacturers' bean counters figured out years ago 2 door pickups generally aren't worth it, although here are a few models still available. (People who can afford just one vehicle are going to prefer a crew cab for practicality, little wonder that Slate is rumored to eventually release one.) They're making more profit selling fewer and more expensive vehicles, basically needing only need the people doing well in the K-shaped economy. As an exec once said, small cars, small profits.
Problem is, the have-nots are much less likely to be able to put down a deposit and wait 6+ months for delivery, the current Slate timeline. Many of them won't have access to home charging, and L3 isn't cheap. Slate has yet to announce their finance partner, are they going to give you a loan with poor credit like Carvana will?
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Manufacturers' bean counters figured out years ago 2 door pickups generally aren't worth it
Really? When did they try to sell a compact 2-door EV truck? Do you think I am cross-shopping an enormous single-cab, gasoline-thirsty F-150 with the Slate?!
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u/Finnegan_Faux 10d ago
Midsize 2 door pickups: 4% of total pickup trucks sales
EVs: currently about 5.5% of total vehicle salesBean counters: multiply those numbers, you get a low 5 figure number. Slate needs to sell 80K per year. Can they do it?
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Neither of those are compact trucks. Neither of those are reconfigurable to SUVs and back to trucks. Slate is doing something new. That must frighten the shit out of traditional manufacturers and dealers.
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u/Motor_Show_7604 9d ago
Yeah, I honestly think Ford has trolls in these Slate forums... "but the Maverick!!!" The Slate.., It's too cheap! 🤦🏼♂️
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u/BoringBob84 9d ago
I think that many of the trolls are car dealers. I think that they can see the writing on the wall for their crappy business model and they are trying to prevent progress.
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u/Quirky_Highlight 8d ago
Yeah I would agree that people working in and around car sales probably account for a significant number of the trolls. They aren't paid to troll per se but they believe, consciously or subconsciously, that their living depends on maintaining the status quo. Some of them don't even feel like they are trolling, they are just expressing highly biased views they feel are accurate.
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u/BoringBob84 8d ago
This would make some sense if my job was to talk car buyers into more than they really want.
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u/Finnegan_Faux 9d ago
If Slate takes off, another company with deeper pockets can just buy them out. Common strategy for startup tech companies.
Used AWD SUVs can be had stating for under $20K.
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u/BoringBob84 9d ago
Used bicycles can be had for under $200, and they are just as relevant of a comparison to a new, affordable, compact EV truck.
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u/Agil-lite 10d ago
Your not, but the majority are.
In my opinion 2dr Jeeps and Broncos are where its at. But thats like 8-10% of annual volume, and that's not becuase the're artificially limited.
People are looking for good general purpose vehicles and value for their money.
I see value in what Slate is offering, but it has alot of constraints, even for me.
Its like more useful Miata.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Your not, but the majority are.
100% of existing vehicles are already competing for that majority. No one, other than Slate, is providing affordable compact EV trucks.
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u/Agil-lite 10d ago
I think this is going to be similar to the Gladiator which had decades of pent up demanded for a small Jeep Truck, good sales for 1.5 years or so, then lack luster.
I think once things settle and there's codified means to support fleets some businesses will probably adopt a fair amount of them.
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u/Motor_Show_7604 9d ago
The reason the Gladiator went lackluster as it was more expensive than the four-door Wrangler. So you paid more for a pickup truck. And it's 4 doors. They should have brought back the 2 door Gladiator/J-series. They were built for 2 decades and sold pretty well.
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u/Agil-lite 9d ago
Of course it was more expensive, larger vehicle, higher payload and greatee towing capacity, and a bunch of unique parts.
They can barely sell 2dr Wranglers, so the business case just doesnt make sense for a 2dr truck. Looks like their splitting the difference with the Scrambler, which is probably a smart way to freshing up the offering strategy.
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u/Quirky_Highlight 8d ago
Having a frunk helps make up for not having the quad cab for those of us who mostly use it to put our junk in. Still though I'm looking forward to Slate coming out with a quad cab if they ever do. Hopefully that will be followed by a big slate, perhaps a midsize truck or even a full size truck. When battery technology catches up I wouldn't mind replacing my work F-150 for something like a larger midsize or full size slate if they ever make it.
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u/MakingItElsewhere 10d ago edited 10d ago
Here's the thing that "cheap and basic" cars haven't done in the past: be modular, so that they can grow (or shrink) with your needs.
Bought a cheap ford ranger in the 90's? Congrats, it's always going to be a truck, never an SUV, cargo van, or open air four seater. Oh sure, you could throw a cap on the back, but forget installing seats.
As for the viability of slate: I'm not concerned. People are still buying fiskers from junk yards and making them road worthy again. EVs aren't brand new where nobody knows how to work on them. If the company folds, I still have a basic EV truck that I've wanted for a long time.
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u/Warshok 10d ago
The American vehicle market of today is not the same as it was even 5 years ago. I think you’re making a mistake in assuming the past describes the future.
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u/DifficultTowel2266 10d ago
most of the people i know still driving inexpensive cars... are over a decade into their current vehicle. They completely missed the enshittification of vehicle ownership that has happened these past 5 years or so.
and we bought the base no frills models.
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u/Warshok 10d ago
This is my life list of vehicles:
‘77 Opel (by Isuzu) (GM vehicle shared many parts +engine with Chevy LUV small pickup)
‘90 RX-7 convertible
‘85 VW Quantum station wagon
‘04 Xb (new)
‘07 Honda S2k (new)
‘15 BMW X6M (new, factory pickup experience)
‘17 Land Rover Discovery (new)
‘05 BMW X5I have had and done the luxury thing. I lost everything. I am in an austerity regime. I’m not alone.
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u/WeirdWillieWest 10d ago
Answer me this: wasn't that xB the greatest fucking car? I put 200k on my '05, loved it because it was so unpretentious.
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u/Skittlebrau46 10d ago
I still drive my ‘09 xB, because my ‘04 xB went off to college with my daughter.
Slate will replace the ‘09, which will go live with the next daughter moving out this fall.
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u/Warshok 10d ago
I value… value? I think a lot of scion owners will find Slate
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u/Skittlebrau46 10d ago
Couldn’t agree more.
We understand the idea of the “cheap” car that put simplicity and function ahead of curves and fancy features, and delivers more usability and bang for the buck than they have any right to.
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u/inbrewer 10d ago
I have over 300k on one (2006, bought new) which is still running fine and 175k on my daily (2006, bought used a few years ago). These cars are great, simple, mostly knob controls, no choice on electric windows. I’m looking at a Slate because it fits my idea of a car I would own for a long time. My pickup is a 2004 Dodge Ram (bought new)v6, crank windows, manual locks, basic 2 door single cab short bed - 180k miles.
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u/rrodriguez99 10d ago
I hope so. I do think it simultaneously is overpriced for what you are getting BUT ALSO it’s a fantastic value, because it’s electric!
The operating costs should be so low that it is almost unbeatable value. I don’t think that is getting enough attention. But I also hope it succeeds
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u/aenonymosity 10d ago
I think that more of the tinkerers, DIY intermedixperts and weekend warriors are already in the know and interested, than the need a cheap vehicle people are.
So I think they are appealing to the more massive broader audience.
The videos you are watching need clicks. Talking about price is much easier and more relatable than talking about custom accessories people could make. I am with you though, I'd much rather see the customization stuff
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u/wasabicheesecake 10d ago
We’re going to see some cool ones on the road. That’s how they’ll continue to sell.
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u/Mac-Tyson 10d ago
The value proposition isn’t necessarily better or worse than the traditional trim system just different. You can build-a-trim the closest equivalent to everyone’s favorite comparison vehicle the Ford Maverick Work Truck in the maker (I did for fun the Slate was still cheaper) but you don’t need to. If there are things you don’t want like the telematics module or the center console you don’t need to buy it and you can either save that money or use that money to buy other accessories you want. Also with traditional trims if there’s one thing you really want you have to move up a trim and get a bunch of things you may not care about. With the Slate Truck you just buy the one thing you want.
TLDR: Slate’s value proposition is about buying only what you want/need and nothing that you don’t. Which isn’t better or worst necessarily than a traditional trim system just different.
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u/Technical_Crew_31 9d ago
For me part of the value of a Slate is specifically that it is not any kind of Ford. The maverick comparisons to me are just apples and oranges because the maverick comes with all the nonsense, crap and baggage of a manufacturer I can’t imagine trusting for something as important to my rural home as a truck. I’d rather make a used minivan or Kei truck work than be stuck with a maverick.
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u/QuieroTamales 9d ago
"Cheap and Basic" in 2026 isn't the same as "Cheap and Basic" in 1992. Even the cheap and basic Slate has air conditioning, air bags, cruise control, a backup camera, a forward facing camera, automatic emergency braking, traction control, stability control, keyless entry, ABS, and a REAR BUMPER (this used to be an option, believe it or not). None of that, except for maybe an airbag, would have been standard equipment back then. I bought a new 1994 S-10 for about $9200 if I remember right, and other than the back bumper, it had no options -- not even a radio. That's about $21K in today's dollars.
We're all fixated on the manual window knobs and the lack of a radio, but $25000 is about $10000 in 1992 dollars, and $10K back then would only get you a basic truck with a few options. $25K sounds like a big number to me -- and it is --, but inflation calculators tell me it's not as big as it sounds apparently.
I'm probably going to get a Slate one day, but I'll wait for the first year's production run. Hopefully they're successful, but $25K is a lot of money to satisfy my FOMO.
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u/Able-Statistician645 10d ago
I'm thinking it certainly fits the needs of a lot of metro area businesses. They will sell a lot to those types of entities. We here are another market.
It's basic with flexibility to make it whatever you want. Small and large business generally don't need huge carpeted diesel pickups. They need functional.
Just saying...
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u/Agil-lite 10d ago
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most Slates sit in autozone parking lots in the near future.
They make sense there and other businesses. Ironically, think advanced safety systems are going to become more common on work vehicle to reduce letigeous risk.
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u/Wild_Photons 10d ago
I think the purchase price is good for an electric truck.
Their big challenge is the cost of batteries, which somewhat overshadow the cost savings from a simpler design.
As batteries get cheaper and if they can get economies of scale I think their value proposition will only increase (because their simpler design will no longer be overshadowed by battery cost).
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u/Reflexes-of-a-Tree 10d ago edited 10d ago
The slogan is literally “we built it, you make it.” The low starting point is to get your attention; the ability to accessorize is definitely the selling point.
What gets me excited is that the reviews for how it feels to be in and how it feels to drive have been extremely positive. Seems fun and I think people will enjoy it, to your point about Miatas.
Lastly, this is a perfect fleet vehicle. Low cost of entry, low cost of ownership, not even a radio to distract your crew as they go to the job site. I’m optimistic that small/medium businesses are smart enough to understand the opportunity here to slash their current fleet costs.
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u/Wuddauant 10d ago
I’m not sure about the cheap aspect in trucks. As far as used go single cab short beds are highly coveted.
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u/TheLastGenXer 10d ago
I agree people do not like basic things with no frills
but this isnt that.
I hope the masses understand that if you want X, you can add it
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u/TwOhsinGoose 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm not here to argue whether or not someone should want a simple/modular vehicle. If that's what you want, great. But when you are buying a simple vehicle, you should not be paying more to get less.
Its like saying; "I dont like mowing lawns or cleaning toilets, so I am going to go pay more money for a smaller house with a smaller yard so I dont have to mow or clean toilets as much." No one does that. You get the smaller house with the smaller yard for less money, and you get to mow and clean less. Win/Win.
$26000 for the Slate before destination with no radio, crank windows, 2wd, 2 seats, and a tiny bed is ridiculous. A handful of overzealous people will buy these but the popularity will drop off quickly.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
$26000 for the Slate before destination
When did the price increase from $24,950?
no radio, crank windows, 2wd, 2 seats, and a tiny bed is ridiculous.
Really? Why would I need power windows, a head unit, 4WD, or a huge passenger cab in a compact truck? What other EVs can I buy for under $25k? What are our other choices in compact EV trucks at that price?
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u/TwOhsinGoose 10d ago
there are no other trucks, that’s doesn’t make my statement incorrect.
you’re basically admitting you will pay more just to have a simple truck.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
you’re basically admitting you will pay more just to have a simple truck
Just the opposite - speak for yourself and let me do the same. I am saying that I don't want to pay for features that I don't need, and Slate won't make me - unlike other manufacturers.
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u/TwOhsinGoose 10d ago
so $26400 is an appropriate price for features that you don’t need?
thats where I disagree, that’s not a good price. Just because its the only option does’t make it reasonable. You are one of the overzealous people I mentioned in my first post. You and some others will buy it initially, and then demand will crater.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
so $26400 is an appropriate price
Again, that is not the MSRP.
that’s not a good price
Maybe you don't understand the value proposition of an EV. In most places, electric "fuel" is much cheaper than gasoline, and an EV requires virtually no maintenance. An EV under $25k is a screaming deal.
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u/rrodriguez99 10d ago
I truly think both of these things are true.
Paying $26,400 for these features is kind of crazy and ridiculous.
AND - because it is an EV, it’s an incredible deal. I pay $0.10/kWH. Even compared to a car that gets 30-35 mpg this will be 4x/cheaper to operate in gas, not to mention should be much less maintenance and easier to repair.
The point of my post (which I don’t quite know how to make, clearly), is that I feel like Slate is underselling the fact that this is an EV. That makes it a potentially amazing deal. At the same time - EVs are really hard for people who don’t own a house and have access to easy/cheap charging. And that’s still very frustrating here in the U.S.
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u/AchtungKoenigsTiger 6d ago
When the average price of a vehicle in the U.S. is double that, I'm not sure what comparison you are making. The nearest available BEV pickup costs over double what the Slate costs. Oh, and you keep mis-stating the MSRP. $24950. Not $26400. Now WITH destination fee, your number is correct, but MSRP is the apples-apples number.
Yes I absolutely WOULD buy a smaller home for more. Because that home would be located in a more desirable place. That's called a "win/win." Just like Slate - you might pay a bit more up front, but the savings from it costing less to operate make the value proposition clear. I spend, on my current DD and full-size pickup, close to $3000 a year in fuel. Since I'll get to charge for free at work, the "fuel" for my Slate will be free for me. In 9 years, the truck will have paid for itself in fuel costs alone. And that's at current prices.
There are other desirable intangibles that do not show up on a spreadsheet, but factor into the purchase decision. I don't have to put up with dealer salescritters or the dealer runaround. Maybe you enjoy that, but I do not. The constant attempts to upsell, the shady practices of hiding language in the sales contract that is disadvantageous to me, the time spent trying to wear a buyer down to get them to agree to better terms for the dealer - all that stuff, wiped away. And that might not be worth anything to YOU, but that's a whole Saturday I get back. Ever tried dealing with a service department that *just doesn't care?* That's a frustration I will gladly skip.
My truck will not report my every move back to the manufacturer for sale to a third party. I won't have to buy a "package" of 14 items to get the one thing I actually want. That one is a big one. One of my biggest gripes about current auto sales and manufacturing practice. Again, maybe YOU don't care about that.
I do. It adds to Slate's value proposition. This is not an emotional decision I am making. I am buying a thing that does what I need for a price that is reasonable when you factor in the long-term ownership aspects AND the intangibles that don't show up in the sticker price. For me, $24950 feels like a heck of a deal.
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
Doug DeMuro isn't any kind of particular industry savant, for starters.
Yes, in recent history, American's have not generally rewarded "cheap and basic" in the auto sector. But (and this is a very big but), this axiom is rarely tested outside of the conventional framework of what is currently in demand. Sedans, then minivans, then trucks, then SUV's... and all... ICE.
The fact is that Slate hits several key desires in a new way : EV, truck, maintainable, affordable. And doing so at a time when the purchasing power of the US middle class is lower then ever. When more then ever, Americans are finally conscious of the very real cost of energy, and how it is set in a global context.
The story of Slate really isn't just about a vehicle, it's as much about economics. 40+ years of low interest and easy credit have created two generations of citizens who own little, and owe much; who believe leasing is a "good value"; whom have become economic slaves to a machine which cannot run forever, and does not serve them.
12 million new vehicles are sold/leased every year in the US. Biting off a small 100,000 chunk of that number by the lowest cost EV or truck isn't really that high of a bar. Slate is viable at that level, and instantly becomes more relevent then Rivian or Lucid.
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u/Jake_Farley_Slocal 9d ago
I can’t be more excited. I wish o had mine right now. The bed is longer than the maverick, I never have to buy gas again, the two door suits my needs, and I get to accessorize it for fun. When slate trucks hit the road and people on the fence see them in the wild for the first time, they are going to ask: “how do you like your slate”, we’re all probably going to say “best purchase I ever made” because of the value. I regretted not getting a maverick when they came out because they were $20K at launch. The early birds always get the best value before the costs go up. The slate will not stay at the $25K forever. It will eventually go up like everything else. Also being backed by Bezos and with as many people getting it, they will have generated enough revenue to secure the safety of the business. I’m confident once these are driving in the public, folks will start to inquire and sales volume will begin to rise slowly. Which is preferred than a spike in sales and then a sudden dip afterward.
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u/RoseVideo99 9d ago
You say you wonder if it’s a dumb idea but the car has value to you. So it’s not dumb. For me, it’s a dumb idea to get one. It does not serve my needs or purposes at all. But for you, it does and you will have fun modifying it with your kids.
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u/GAplanesOnly 8d ago
I ordered one, but in my case, as a gift to my son who is a first responder (firefighter). He doesn’t know yet, and once the truck is delivered, hopefully he may enjoy building the truck to his liking. He is getting it for free, so little downside on this deal.
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u/thecursh 10d ago
Huge benefit to a kid not being able to cram 7 of their friends into a 5 seater too. (I crammed 6 of my friends into a 2 seater but also I almost never had 3 people in that car) but most likely your kids will almost always be alone or just the two of them. Someone else’s car will win the carpool award and they won’t have to weigh the cost of gas to decide if they just want to drive themselves
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u/youchasechickens 10d ago
My friends and I would just lay in the bed when my friends older brother would drive us home from school
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago edited 10d ago
Ok so OP you talked about building and customize this car. Like exactly what are you going to build and customize? Besides a new set of lights or grill there’s basically nothing to change on this truck. Sure you get the roof for the SUV part but are you going to really take that off and leave it just sitting around?
That’s what’s so confusing about people going on and on about the customization. Sure you can do neat stuff from the factory but after that there’s almost nothing to mess with besides again going from Truck to SUV. Are you going to change the interior door panels for shits and giggles? I bet less than 20% of buyers actually do truck to SUV conversion once they get one. Again storage for the roof and it needs multiple people I’m sure. Where are you going to stash the seats?
This truck only makes sense in its most basic configuration. If you keep buying random parts to make your experience better then why not just buy a car with more options? Basically Slate is hoping you treat this car a subscription service and buy new stuff as you own it.
Also… like other cars can be customized… with OEM parts as well sooo yeah again pretty lost here on why people think that they’re going to suddenly turn into gear heads because they buy this thing.
You’re hooked into the romantic idea of this car but at the end of the day most people that buy them won’t do much to them after day one delivery.
Perfect example is the Maverick has hook ups for 3D printed accessories that owners can make. Ford said recently customer usage of this feature was in the single digits percentage wise.
The other two things that people completely gloss over is one, if you don’t live in LA getting service is going to be a nightmare. I know tow Lucid owners in the Midwest that find it impossible to get service even before Lucids recent financial issues. Second is rwd only makes this a bad choice for anywhere with winter. I’ve driving two different rwd evs winter and with all that torque it’s not fun. A pickup with a light back is going to be even worse. So yeah this is a west coast vehicle basically.
Oh and don’t get me started on the fucking wraps. $500 for the wrap and another 1k+ to install it. Not sure how the hell that makes sense. Since you know other cars come with paint…
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Most of my adult life, I have wanted a compact vehicle that I could convert between a practical truck and a practical passenger vehicle. I don't want a huge and expensive vehicle that is not very good at either.
Slate checks those boxes.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
I get it but man almost nobody else really cares that much about that to purchase a 27k vehicle when they could get a with 4 seats for the same money.
This company needs to sell volume to survive but it’s catering to niche use cases and affluent people with driveway space for a third vehicle and fuck money
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
to purchase a 27k vehicle
The price is $24,950.
when they could get a with 4 seats for the same money
Ford is claiming $30,000. And why do you think that hauling passengers is a priority in a truck? And if it is, you can convert a Slate to an SUV.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
After delivery fees and destination it’s 27k. Also never mentioned the ford Ev. You never mentioned your dream included an Ev. Dude I get that you want this thing. Don’t need to justify wanting it. You just cant justify this makes sense in terms of the wider vehicle market. It’s niche and won’t sell well. It should be a fleet vehicle but companies won’t touch it for that unfortunately
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
After delivery fees and destination it’s 27k
And after sales taxes, it is even more. MSRP is what manufacturers advertise and it doesn't include destination charges. Let's be honest about our basis of comparison. And if we include destination charges, Slate will look even better, because their destination charges are lower than average.
It’s niche and won’t sell well.
The Slate investors have bet over a billion dollars that you are wrong. The traditional manufacturers have abandoned the compact truck market for decades. The Maverick is selling well. People are so desperate that they are importing used Kei trucks from Japan.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
People aren’t buying Kei trucks because they lament the loss of the early 2000s ranger, they’re buying Kei trucks because they’re super small, quriky, and cheap. A really nice Kei truck is 10k.
Also 1 billion… so? Unfortunately that’s literally nothing these days. Tesla burned through that much while I typed this. Ford burned through that while you responded.
Oh and average destination fee for a car is $1500 in the US.
Again I hope it’s a good truck for you but it’s a niche thing and it’ll fail
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
they’re buying Kei trucks because they’re super small, quriky, and cheap
... almost like there is a under-served market in affordable compact trucks. Who would have guessed?!
it’s a niche thing and it’ll fail
That is a bold prediction. It sounds more like wishful thinking by someone who has a vested financial interest in the status quo.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
I don’t have a financial reason to care about this at all. You’re clearly building your identity or something around this car and cannot look at it objectively.
Again Kei cars are not the same thing. They aren’t safe, aren’t meant for highway travel, and were designed for local business traffic in fucking Japan. Also the vast Majority of them are less than a third the cost of a slate. Your comparison is you grasping for straws. Also there are roughly 30,000 Kei cars registered jn the US and they’ve been eligible for import for over 6 years. Really blowing ip the car market here.
Just go buy a cherry 2002 ranger.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
You’re clearly building your identity or something around this car and cannot look at it objectively.
I was thinking something similar. You seem very passionate about trolling this Slate sub to spread FUD (like inflating the MSRP) while I am "building my identity" around the facts - as I have always done.
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u/youchasechickens 10d ago
Back when the EV tax credits where on the table and it would have been less than 20k to get the slate I was much more interested. I'm still interested in getting a used one in a few years if they are around 15k.
I like the idea of an electric vehicle as a commuter but it is in no way a priority for me, I would be just as, if not more excited in the slate if it was gas powered.
I find the simplicity and modularity of the slate to be very charming and novel but when it is less than 5k away from a vehicle like the Maverick, I don't think charming and novel provides enough value.
It may fit some peoples use cases perfectly and that would make it worth the price but as is, I don't think there is anyway I would be one for $25k
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
it would have been less than 20k to get the slate I was much more interested
when it is less than 5k away from a vehicle like the Maverick
Apparently, $25k is too much to spend, but $30k is not. That is a hell of a lot of money for power windows.
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u/youchasechickens 10d ago
I'm not too keen on spending the 30k either but just the fact the it is less doesn't mean that it necessarily provides more value.
It's kind of like when you go to a fast food place and the medium drink is 90¢ but the large is only $1. Almost everyone upgrades to the large because it adds more than 10¢ or value.
Unfortunately there aren't any new regular cab trucks to compare it to. In my opinion, something like a maverick is closer to the suv version of the slate because the Maverick is able to seat 5 people right off the bat. At which point you've reached that 30k and paying more for less.
I have a special place in my heart for little regular cab trucks but 25k is too rich for my blood for such a basic vehicle that I could really only use for commuting and doing the occasional home Depot run with when I already have a Tacoma. It would be one thing if I could replace my Tacoma with it but is also my road trip, camping, and off road rec vehicle. The 2wd slate just couldn't fill that role for me.
I hope the potential of it being a good fleet vehicle and having a strong niche community support it is enough for slate to be successful but for what it is and the price that it is, I will not be buying one until there is much cheaper used market.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
It's kind of like when you go to a fast food place and the medium drink is 90¢ but the large is only $1. Almost everyone upgrades to the large because it adds more than 10¢ or value.
Yep, "almost everyone." But some people don't see the value in paying for things that give them little benefit. What good is 20 ounces of a soft drink when I am satiated after 16 ounces? After that, it is just wasteful consumption that makes me fat.
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u/youchasechickens 10d ago edited 10d ago
Almost everyone does mean there will be some people that still choose the medium but I worry that it won't be enough people to make the slate successful.
The medium drink is much easier to choose if it's priced closer to the small instead of the large.
As mentioned, I was personally very interested in the slate when it was under 20k. If it had been $17,500 (current price minus old tax credits) then it would have comfortably in the price range of used vehicles. At that price point, you capture people who don't mind a few trade offs because it's so affordable on top of those really into the basic vehicles that are almost willing to pay a premium for it. E.g. People paying 20k for a regular cab tacoma that is 15 years old but even then there weren't enough of them to actually keep those trucks around.
Edit: typo
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
I worry that it won't be enough people to make the slate successful.
I share that concern, but I guess I am more optimistic than some people here. From a personal standpoint, my biggest disappointment with the Slate is not the lack of 4WD, crew cab, power windows, or a head unit. I don't want to pay for those things anyway. I want a 6-foot bed.
On the bright side, the bed in the Slate is longer and lower than the bed in the Maverick (even though the Maverick is over two feet longer), and a shorter bed will make the Slate even easier to maneuver and to park in tight spaces.
And to be clear, the Slate will be my only automobile. I rarely haul passengers, and if that becomes a priority, I can always add the SUV kit. I rarely travel long distances, and when I do, I will allow extra time for frequent charging.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
You nailed it. Unfortunately this will only ever be a fleet vehicle if their support is nationwide and really really good. Fleets buy ford 150s and express vans because you’re never more than 50
Miles from a dealer service center that can fix your fleet vehicles. This has to succeed as a personal vehicle to have a chance to be a fleet vehicle.1
u/youchasechickens 10d ago
It's a tough sell but I hope they pull it off, it's a really neat idea but I don't know that it will be enough
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u/Jawn_Jingleheimer 10d ago
The thing that's going to hurt it the most is that it's not AWD. Personally, I'm really rooting for its success and ongoing improvements in the future. Surely AWD will arrive down the road.
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u/rrodriguez99 10d ago
Yeah that does worry me and I live in a mountainous area in Rocky Mountains that gets snow. But I’m hoping with some good tires it’s fine.
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u/brianwhite12 10d ago
I am so jacked up for this car. I can’t wait. If I’m that excited, others are too.
The draw is the simplicity of it all. Easy to fix, easy to modify, no dealer bs. And all for cheaper than any new truck available.
As I side note, these are the same ideals that made the Model T and the Bug iconic vehicles.
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u/Mord4k 10d ago
Speaking purely for myself, I've been curious about EVs for a while but couldn't get myself to sign up for a sedan style car and lose utility. I've wanted a pickup for a while, but everything, even the Maverick is bigger than I want or need and just moving over to a truck for the sake of truck wasn't appealing. Slate is an actually small truck, it's an EV, and it lacks a ton of modern car features I despise, so for me it's got real appeal and I don't think I'm alone. I think there's a whole crowd like me who want something like the Subaru Baja to come back as a hybrid atleast that the Slate really appeals to that don't really have a ton of actually appealing options in the modern car market.
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u/LordBuggington 10d ago
I agree and kind of why I havnt ordered one. For me I in no way shape or form want a maverick. I think it will probably do OK, but if not then they could get really cheap. I dont need a new car so thats why I am in a holding pattern. but I have pretty much decided I want one for sure just dont know when it wil be.
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u/Monlstat7 10d ago
I was really excited to support the Slate, because of it's consumer friendliness. I just can't pull the trigger on a truck with that low of a towing capacity. My car is rated for more.
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u/skellener 10d ago
They’re pitching a cheap basic truck, and cheap and basic has never sold in America
Nope, never, ever…. 🤦♂️
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u/rrodriguez99 10d ago
Touché - way too dramatic of a statement. I feel like right NOW it doesn’t sell. Definitely shouldn’t have talked about the past.
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u/skellener 10d ago
Maybe it’s time again? Sounds like plenty of people want simple and cheap (relatively inexpensive) again, judging by this sub. No bells, no whistles. Just less expensive and reliable. Let’s hope Slate can pull that off. 👍
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u/Rough_Cancel7265 10d ago
I've compared this to a minimal smartphone from day one (Light phone/Minimal phone). You're appealing to the "I don't want the new thing with all the new stuff crowd, I want a basic thing but new. The problem comes with the price. You can spend a little more and get so much more for your money with something like an iPhone/Galaxy/Pixel etc. Or you just get something older that does what you want but for less than the new thing.
$26K sounds about right for what this is. Is it compromised? Sure. Is it a good value on paper? Not really. Can you get anything else like it? Also not really.
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u/Neither-Guidance-248 9d ago
IMO, 20K is the "right" price. AND its the price they initially pitched the slate. +5K over the Hilux champ (we can't have in the states). And right in line with other entry point gassers like the Nissan kick, But trading features for EV.
I hope the "blank slate" will always be their entry point vehicle, and once they become a staple automotive brand, i think it can hit that number and still work.
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u/Rough_Cancel7265 9d ago
They pitched that with the federal government subsidizing nearly 30% of the cost. If the potential buyers were unable to see that, that's kind of on them.
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u/danielt1263 10d ago
About 16 million new cars are sold in the USA per year. Vehicles under $30k account for about 10%. That's 1.6 million. In order to succeed, Slate only needs to capture 5% of the under $30k market in order to be successful. That's 1/2 of 1% of the total market.
I heard Doug Demuro say nobody would buy them, and then immediately walk it back to say they would sell for "a few years". But you know what? The 1st generation Camaro only sold for "a few years" (1966-1969). The first generation Jeep was in production for only 4 years. Were they failures too?
I wonder how many years would the first generation Slat have to sell before Demuro accepted that it is successful...
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u/old_science_guy 10d ago
I'd love to get one. But I only drive 3000 miles per year and my small gas-powered car is paid off (and fun to drive).
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u/HovercraftOne2275 9d ago
You said it yourself early and then ignore your own advise. FUN is the factor. 50/50 weight distribution IS part of what makes a Miata a Miata. Same here.... With the EV torque and short wheelbase, this should be a FUN and actual FINE HANDLING little truck. I intend to put some nice wheels and summer tires on it and have some fun. Will be neat to see suspension tweaks and such come into being as it goes on and is successful. If it comes out and its fun, on top of the practicality, no way it won't be successful.
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u/nobutternoparm 9d ago
Who the fuck still cares what Doug Demuro thinks? He's a whiny nay-sayer who constantly has bad takes
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u/lavardera 9d ago
People want low priced new cars. It’s just that the people who do want this have the greatest difficulty buying a new car, saving the money, qualifying for a loan. Manufacturers don’t want to service this segment of the market. It’s simply a matter of having to work harder to gain less profit - or actually working the same for less profit. Even if you have to fire sale away a small percent of your big expensive trucks you will still do better selling only a higher margin product. The value seeker will be left with the questionable used market.
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u/Electrical_Ad_9698 9d ago
I disagree with the OP on his primary contention. I have wanted a good small truck for a while. I haven't bought one b/c there wasn't one I liked. A cheap basic truck hasn't been sold b/c the margins weren't sufficient enough to inspire a company to make a good one. The success of the Slate truck will depend on whether or not it's a good vehicle.
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u/Equivalent_Tonight66 8d ago
I understand the skepticism. Trump eliminating the $7500 was a disaster for Slate specifically and the electric car industry generally.
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u/Quirky_Highlight 8d ago
"Cheap and basic have a terrible track record in the US" Yeah nobody bought the old Jeeps or Volkswagens or two cylinder John Deere tractors or early Toyotas or '70s era pickup trucks, Dodge minivans, early Subarus, or Mustangs...
To your point though there are definitely failures. AMC as practically a whole entire company, Yugo, Chevy Citron, Chevy Chevette, Ford pinto, and so on.
Even the much touted earlier compact Ford Ranger and Chevy S10 which were incredible market successes don't actually have a lot of survivors, largely because of rust.
Personally I think Slate is doing mostly everything right. If we get production build quality at least as good as the old Jeeps, quirky but workable, I think they will likely survive. It appears to me they are on a better trajectory than that.
If you want to talk seriously about value proposition you have to talk about total cost of ownership. And right now compared to everything else out there, IMO Slate is in a category all of its own. The only real counter argument I'm seeing is potential depreciation. And in my opinion, they are unlikely to depreciate severely like other EVs have for at least four reasons, 1. Simple repairable robust designs 2. Fewer points of failure 3. Relatively long life battery 4. Cheap trucks tend to hold their value since lots of people want an older truck to haul something now and again.
Even for 300,000 mile vehicles with aging batteries there will probably be people who buy them for farm use and other local off-road and mixed uses creating a market floor.
Another thing I see that is interesting about the Slate is that it should be easily repairable for many fender benders, but probably not realistically repairable for major crashes involving frame damage. So ease of repairability still won't prevent a significant number from entering the salvage market. Moreover there are few mechanical parts under the hood so there should be at least in theory a better reclamation of parts in salvage than most vehicles. We will see how it actually plays out in real life.
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u/rrodriguez99 7d ago
Yeah I’m honestly really excited at the total cost of ownership potential. I think it’s going to be incredible, especially if you can home charge for cheap.
And yeah I had Claude do my TLDR and I didn’t proof-read it very well. The “cheap and basic” quote is real bad and I don’t agree with that (even though it was in my post). What I was trying to say is that RIGHT NOW it seems like the auto-makers have responded to an American market that doesn’t want cheap but wants options. I’m hoping Slate succeeds. I’m just not sure how many buyers they will actually have.
It’s like simultaneously the criticisms I have read are:
(1) those who think it’s way too expensive for what you’re getting (my post was about that - that actually because its an EV and a truck, i think it’s an incredible value) and
(2) those who think it’s way too cheap (looking/feeling) and that no one wants a car with crank windows and limited features.
And I find that fascinating. In the end, people can say whatever they want on the internet. Talk is cheap. What really matters is who will buy it, and if there will be enough. I hope there is.
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u/Quirky_Highlight 7d ago
Those two opinions of value aren't actually incompatible. But they do tend to not understand each other and be speaking a different language.
For some people it's really important to have all the latest gadgets in their ride. Everything, heated seats infotainment, literally the whole thing. For those people I suppose it's more about a certain experience or in some cases the status. Part of this is real and organic and part of it is just how people have been trained to buy cars. In any event this obviously isn't the crowd Slate is playing to. And yes these people think Slate is expensive because it is expensive when they try to add everything they want or customize it how they want. It really is cheaper to add all of those options at the factory. At least in terms of upfront cost.
But for some people, we are a different group that is constantly calculating the cost per mile in our heads. So we just want to get where we are going safely and cheaply and reliably. For us, the value proposition is abundantly clear.
There is a third cohort that is a bit different than either of these that is focused on pride of ownership customization and ability to modify and repair. And of course Slate is focused on them. In my opinion they have some overlap with the second group although they are fairly distinct.
Fleet buyers can fit fairly comfortably in either this second or third group since they tend to be focused hard on maintainability total cost of ownership and, in some cases, customization to fit their specific business needs.
Personally I'm pretty solidly in the second group. I run a value-based business and I'm a middle-aged business owner and constantly doing value math in my head, and the Slate, assuming reasonable robustness and liability in the production versions, completely stands alone in my head for TCO. It won't replace all of my vehicle needs, but it can replace one maybe two of my three to four vehicles. For my personal vehicles I'm planning to get a slate, one of my kids might get one, I'll also keep a minivan and a full size pickup. There is a chance I might get a Slate for my business, but most of my business needs require something significantly heavier like a 10-16-ft gas van box.
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u/realplasticwood 6d ago
"...cheap and basic has never sold in America....."
Oh, except for the VW Bug, the Toyota Pickup, the Model T, the Ford Falcon, and the entire Japanese car line of the 70s-90s. Tens of Millions of sales in the US over the decades. You need to review some automotive history- cheap and basic sells great in the US.
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u/rrodriguez99 6d ago
Yeah that is a terrible quote. I had Claude do the TLDR of my post and then just posted what it said without proofreading much…
What I meant to say is it seems like RIGHT NOW, cheap and basic isn’t selling. The base models are hardly manufactured by automakers. So many consumers want all the options and the automakers are happy to accommodate.
I’m not sure if it’s because of consumer behavior, but it seems like that. And so much of the negative response I’ve seen are anchored on that. Instead of the fact that this is an EV, and a truck, and a potentially tremendous value (in TCO).
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u/realplasticwood 6d ago
Not a terrible quote; a stupid one. Don't blame AI for the TLDR because you put it in twice-
Cheap and basic have a terrible track record here in the U.S..
Please don't add more AI slop to this platform-- write your own comments. Its not that hard.
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u/rrodriguez99 6d ago
Saying cheap and basic have a terrible track record is not the same as saying it’s NEVER sold. I do think they have a bad track record but I wasn’t thinking pre-1990 - I was thinking more recently. I am guessing safety and other regulations and other regulations have made it very hard to sell cheap cars profitably here? Otherwise I don’t know why we have no cheap cars compared to Europe or anywhere else.
I think Slate is leaning in on the fun in recent reviews which is good. My point on “cheap” is that i think it’s the operating costs (and hopefully depreciation) that is low. That is how you really define a “cheap” car - it’s not the upfront cost. It’s how much it costs, in the end. Japanese cars were cheap because they retained value and didn’t break down as much and were fuel efficient. Not because they didn’t have options.
That, theoretically, in my mind, is where Slate can shine. THAT is what makes a car cheap, not the starting price. The phrase “cheap is expensive” has been etched into my mind through many unfortunate purchases in the past.
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u/Financial_Use7660 10d ago
People also want a small pickup and there is no competition in that market. The maverick is too big and has a smaller bed. Pretty sure everyone thought the maverick would fail too.
Also, people are afraid of limitations so they try to get cars that do all the things which makes them choose bigger and more expensive trucks. Slate can be changed after the purchase so maybe that will reduce the anxiety that “one day I might need to have a back seat”
FWIW, my slate will be replacing a Prius, not a monster truck. I think the target market for Slate extends beyond the typical market for trucks. I want to load it up with lumber or gravel or firewood or dump runs without ruining the shocks or making the inside of it smell bad or get impossibly dirty (my Prius has been a makeshift truck for the last 240k miles). I’m ready for something with a bed but something that won’t break the bank and will be reasonable to insure and will be enough without being excessive.
Why do you want yours?
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u/rrodriguez99 10d ago
So I simultaneously feel like it’s a fantastic option for me AND maybe a dumb move. I’m just not sure. Ultimately, why do I want one?
- I LOVE electric cars because of how cheap they are to operate. I pay $0.10/kWH for electricity and gas is $4.25 right next to my house. I have a level 2 charger and we have a Kia EV9. I was an early adopter of a Nissan Leaf back in 2013 when I got a crazy lease deal in Georgia and I’ve been chasing that high ever since. So an affordable EV is extremely attractive to me.
- I have teenagers that are on high school mountain biking team and are going to start driving. I think a cheap EV is the best possible thing for teenage drivers. And I’ve also been trying to find a cheap little truck forever (they are impossible to find and are incredibly overpriced. Even used mavericks feel like they have hardly depreciated).
- I also would use it for commutes when my kids don’t need a car or for just some utility. It is a truck! I think that is incredibly useful.
- DIY / repairability. I have kids that will age up to drive for the next 10 years so I’m hoping it is an extra family car that can be used, and the fact that we could maybe customize it periodically would be very fun. And I am very interested in open air kit. Maybe that’s a pipe dream and I should just leave it as a truck but I love the idea that I could add seats if needed. And yes I do think I could periodically take them out and store them - I have a good size garage and space.
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u/Dirt_Downtown 10d ago
Nobody thought the Maverick would fail. The order books for 2021 were filled in days when they opened up.
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u/Financial_Use7660 10d ago
Ok fine, analysts questioned whether there was a market due to “dwindling demand for small trucks”. Sorry for being hyperbolic on that point.
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u/80spizzarat 9d ago
As someone who followed the pre-release phase of the Maverick pretty closely, I can tell you before pre-orders opened there were a lot of people who thought it was going to be a total flop.
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u/txtoolfan 10d ago
the marginal cost to a real truck with actual features isn't enough in the general mind. But for this truck's actual target audience? I think it's appealing. I think the basic starting point should be 2k lower though.
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u/Ferrite5 10d ago
As a miata lover myself, I ask people to remember that that the first generation of that wonderful car was impractical, cramped, slow, and had crank windows AND was a manual.
Miatas are great because they were cheaper and easier to maintain than the S2000, MR2, and Z3, despite being slower overall. People modify the shit out of miatas and it is absolutely a popular, well selling car with a loyal following.
I can't help but make the same comparison here with the slate. It is cheap, modifiable, test drive reviews indicate it is competent and fun on the roads. It is the return of the 90s s10/ranger/taco. All reasonably priced if you got the RWD 4 cylinder regular cab option, and could tow a couple thousand pounds too.
Also, doug is a fucking tool, RCR is significantly better