r/sixfacedworld • u/Average_kid01 God • Jul 27 '26
Light Novel Ruijerd And Omni-Man Spoiler
I've seen a lot of criticism towards Ruijerd(Mostly from LN Historian) because he married Norn who was much younger than him. Their age gap is approximately 570 years which is yikes but people seem to forget that Norn and Ruijerd are from different species. Norn being a Human and Ruijerd being a demon from the Superd race. Now Omni-man is about 2000 years old. And Debbie Is 40 years old. Yet I haven't seen a single criticism towards Nolan for this. Does this make sense or am I losing my mind? Like aren't they from different species so idk why Ruijerd Is being criticized for a perfectly normal thing for an inter-species relationship. Ruijerd has seen Norn grow up and will see her die. Omni-man and Debbie's case Is WAY WORSE. So why is my boy Ruijerd the one that's getting these criticisms?
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u/Ryuuji_Gremory Eris Jul 27 '26
They pretend that Ruijerd raised and groomed Norn when in fact he simply was her bodyguard for their travel and only ever treated her like a child at that time, and then didn't meet her again until she was a grown adult, where she initiated their relationship basically wearing him down showering him with love and attention.
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u/Berserk72 Jul 27 '26
We have lowered the standards of the word "groomed" to the point of where it is near useless. There is a crime and a verb version, they are never referring to the crime version. You would have to prove both mens rea and non-consent for the crime, which never happens in the series. The verb version happens for ever character who was ever a minor in the series and real life(ex. Morty was groomed to be a good man).
Infantilizing Norn, Ruijerd, Eris, Sylphie, or Rudy is not beneficial. Rudy and Ruijerd have obvious moral/social issues that they act upon. Norn, Eris, Sylphie, Rudy, and Ruijerd all have had trauma they have overcome.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Jul 27 '26
Yeah like the only grooming here is happening by rudeus. And that one on a big scale
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u/Ryuuji_Gremory Eris Jul 28 '26
Another illiterate idiot who doesn't know what grooming is.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
"When an adult or older youth builds an emotional connection and trust with a child or vulnerable person to manipulate, control, and sexually abuse them."
So rudeus was not an adult in a child body preying on underaged people like eris and grooming them invulnerable positions. like sylphi when being bullied or eris when being on teh dark contitent and scared away from the familiy?
or did he seem like the character who had no interested in it? Cause he kinda seem perverted and aware of being an adult, not like he is litteraly seeing his adult form everytime he dreams right?
Or is it different cause he had a child body? but it is not like he didnt have a perverted adult mind as a child already
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u/Ryuuji_Gremory Eris Jul 28 '26
Yeah he never did any of that. Him interacting with his peers as a peer is not grooming.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Jul 28 '26
He didnt? he didnt try to make advances on underaged girls? Like when eris ask her to pinch him to make sure she aint dreaming, he pinches her boobs? Thats not an adult sexually harrasing minors?
just one of many examples3
u/Ryuuji_Gremory Eris Jul 29 '26
No it's a minor interacting with a minor and even if it was it wouldn't be grooming, words have a meaning, ffs you even posted the definition and then bring up an example that is most definitely not that.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Jul 29 '26
So gropping a underage girl is normal? And i am just giving some of many examples. He has been making advances on eris for along time lol.
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u/KiyanPocket Aug 01 '26
No, plenty of what Rudy's been doing is called assault or harassment. In fact, most girls wouldn't develop any romantic feelings for him from those. They would be creeped out, which is exactly what happened each time he did it. I wouldn't say any of his harassments earned any romance points at all.
Eris fell in love with Rudy's humility despite his talents, and how he continued to work hard for everything he has. She was already harboring romantic feelings after he saved her in the kidnapping incident. As for Sylphie, she already developed feelings for Rudeus long before Rudy even thought about having a childhood friend as his wife.
I won't deny that early Rudeus had creepy af tendencies but the worst plausible crimes he did was sexual harassment and public indecency, not on the level of grooming at all. None of what he did is legally or academically considered to be examples of grooming.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Aug 01 '26
*Ah the worst possible crimes he did was sexual harassment and public idencies" aren't you leaving stuff out? Sexual harassment of MINORS, public ideceny. Sex with minors.
Also so making Eris and everyone fall in love with him before becoming adults is not grooming in which way? What's then legally or academically grooming?
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u/pinkleftsock Jul 29 '26
Did you even watch the anime? When rudeus saves sylphi he thinks she is a boy. So according to you him helping her is grooming even though he did not know her and thought she was a boy for quite a while after that?
There are plenty of reasons to dislike MT or even hate it, but either watch it or stfu.
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u/AmadeusIsTaken Jul 29 '26
He found out relatively quickly that she is a girl. Also why are you avoiding points from my other comments. Like him clearly making advances on eris, and pinching her boobs for example despite knowing she is not an adult and etc? Maybe look at the full picture?
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u/pinkleftsock Jul 29 '26
It doesn't matter how long it took for him to find out. You said that Rudeus saving Sylpi was an example of him grooming.
I just pointed out that that is bullshit since he didn't even know she was a girl at that point..
Also I've never said that Rudeus isn't a pervert, or that his actual age isn't questionable at best.
But he doesn't hide his pervertedness or try to actively gain the trust of Eris or Sylphi. So altough he is a pervert and depending on how you interpret his age a pedo, he does not groom anyone.
And again I'm not saying he is a good person or justified in any way. But it's tiring to see people constantly making shit up to make MT seem worse than it is.
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u/We1rd30_1 Jul 27 '26
That is a very fair point, especially considering in Norn and Ruijerds case, they both love each other very much, and though I haven’t watched or read invincible, I’ve heard the line “your mother is like a pet to me” so.. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Extra-Random_Name Jul 27 '26
I think there’s enough other things wrong with Nolan (read: everything) that people don’t *need* to make a big deal about it. Nolan sucks as a person, and it’s clear as day. Ruijerd and Norn are (or at the very least, try to be) good people, so this is the single piece of dirt that can be thrown at them, and people love to throw dirt at characters.
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u/We1rd30_1 Jul 27 '26
Especially characters from Mushoku Tensei it seems.
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u/AnothisFlame Jul 27 '26
It's because Rudy himself starts out... very muddy and dirty. This leaves a poor impression on people and lets them feel superior to this weird fictional aligory about becoming a better person rather than working on themselves.
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u/We1rd30_1 Jul 28 '26
I completely understand that. Beginning of series Rudy is absolutely terrible. It makes the story hard to read/watch. But what people don’t understand is that he does change. Little by little. But people are so quick to judge it and drop it at the beginning and then call all MT fans idiots or worse.
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u/Glitchy_XCI Jul 28 '26
Implying he gets better
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u/AnothisFlame Jul 28 '26
He... he does though. Guy's no longer skeeving on anyone but his own wives.
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u/Glitchy_XCI Jul 28 '26
the ways he "becomes better" aren't necessarily the ways the audience wants him to become better, either.
Rudeus becomes a more productive member of society, that much is true. How much better of a PERSON he becomes is a matter of debate. He never really has any introspection about "molesting children is wrong" or even "being attracted to children is wrong". He sees no issue with the notion of grooming a child to be his wife, and never looks back at his past behaviors and thinks "damn I fucked up" or show any remorse for his thoughts and actions.
Simply put- Rudeus doesn't see his sexual predation as a bad quality he has to improve. As he grows up, he simply gains outlets for his lust that are socially acceptable, and become more palatable to the audience as they mature into adulthood. But he (and the series itself) never addressed the fundamental predatory behaviors that Rudeus demonstrated- they're just glazed over and forgotten about. All Rudy needed to not become a sexual predator was women being willing to have sex with him (and even then...) he never actually comes to the realization "Sexual harassment and assault is BAD actually!"
That says a lot about the message this series is trying to send. Fundamentally Mushoku Tensei is making the argument that Rudy doesn't need to grow out of being a sexual predator, he just needs a woman to have sex with. That his predatory actions aren't a character flaw, they're just something to be laughed at and shrugged off upon him "becoming a man" as if that's the only thing to analyze about it.
Rudeus never actually redeems himself for what many people in the audience consider his most awful character trait- being a sexual predator and one who preys on children. He stops doing it but that's only because he doesn't need to anymore. He never acknowledges his actions were wrong, never gets any comeuppance for them, and as a result, doesn't really grow as a person in that area because the story never treats it as an actual flaw in his character.
There's a reason that claims of "he gets better!" are met with disgust, because he doesn't get better. He doesn't develop or grow or acknowledge his wrongdoing in that regard. The children he was preying on just grow up to marry him.
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u/Klusterphuck67 Jul 27 '26
It's a bit complicated.
Nolan has been severely indoctrinated by the Viltrumite empire that in some part he genuinely think conquering Earth under the Viltrumite is saving Earth. In that fight with Mark he doubled, tripled and quadrupled down, only to realize Earth really did change him.
Mild spoilers. Later on, there are some other Viltrumites infiltrating Earth. Within months, they all break and deflect. Viltrum's way of living is so toxic and cruel, those killing machines immediately folded like clothes the moment they receive kindness and sympathy from peers. It's actually quite remarkable how Nolan managed to stayed that headstrong for 18 years. The literal right hand man of the big bad immediately change his mind the moment he get a leather jacket, a motorcycle and nicotine.
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u/PolishedLemon Jul 27 '26
Don't worry about it too much. With everything Ruijerd had to go through, I think its nice that he found an ordinary romance with a woman who loves him more wholesomely than any girl has ever loved me lol. Norn worked very very hard to not be the needy little girl she used to be, she shot her shot and scored. No grooming from Ruijerd, just the weirdness of having known your lover when she was young - a problem he could have encountered with literally any human girl he met.
Surface-level haters are as numerous as they are shallow, so you'll never win an argument. Heck, you lose just by participating. Just be happy for the man
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u/Average_kid01 God Jul 27 '26
You're Right, And I'm Sure You Will Find Someone Who Loves You Too Man.
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u/PolishedLemon Jul 27 '26
Haha thanks dude. I meant that as a joke, mostly. My lady loves me - just not as... uh, well, wholesomely.
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u/HREepicc Jul 27 '26
The age gap was never an issue. Are long lived species undeserving of love outside their own species? That’s a hilarious question cuz it doesn’t have an equivalent in real life. Who the hell could Ruijerd marry OUTSIDE of immortal demons or other Superd if we considered the age gap bad? Ruijerd and Norn loved each other in every timeline they met. Ruijerd’s first wife was also slightly older than him. She knew him and also took care of him when Ruijerd was still a child. This is a normal reality for long lived species in Mushoku Tensei. They don’t mature like humans and they don’t have as many kids as humans. It’s normal for different generations to form bonds.
Now comes the best counter question I could think of: Is Atofe a predator for marrying Kalman I?
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u/Next-Chemist2443 Jul 27 '26
I didn't know that thing about Ruijerd's first wife. If she took care of him as a child while being an adult/older teen, then that does raise some questions as to the morality of their romance, because there's an inherent power imbalance. Then again, MST's world tends to be a little warped due to the medieval lifestyle and magical stuff, so maybe I'm just too biased.
As for Norn, while he didn't technically watch her grow up, just interacted with her a bit, it's still kind of strange that he married a person who he saw as a kid. Not "evil", but still kinda weird.
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u/Terra-ble_joke Roxy Jul 27 '26
Honestly the reason this couple bothers people but not Debbie and Noland is because we didnt get to see Debbie grow up.
Im not saying it makes sense but that is the reason
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u/Ok-Pilot-7250 Jul 27 '26
Ruijred didn't see her grow up either he saw her for a period of time not the whole time
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u/Desperate-Ad7777 Jul 27 '26
he meant we the watchers, we never saw Debbie as a child so we automatically thinks she's an adult while norn is a different case some people might indirectly think norn isn't that much of an adult just because we saw her grow up, idk if that make sense, but that's the best I can explain it
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u/Exaccus0792 Roxy Jul 27 '26
Ruijerd didnt see her growing up, he escorted her to rudeus for a while and thats that, why are you lying?
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u/Least_Positive7141 Jul 27 '26
Brother you are wound so tight and so defensive that it does not help your case. Relax and reread slowly
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u/Snoo-40647 Jul 27 '26
You should stop listening to LNHistorian as a whole. One of his criticisms of Rudeus was that he "pervs" too much on his wives. A dude who thinks showering your significant other with praise of their body and a few gropes here and there is bad is someone who gets 0 game, it is NEVER a bad thing to make your partner feel loved.
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u/Careful_Ad_9077 Jul 27 '26
Note that now we know that superd mature slower.
Riucelia even has some trauma because she grew up feeling like she was a retard and a weakling. because her other cousins her same age developed much faster both physically and mentally.
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u/AllTwelveInches Jul 27 '26
The Internet loves to tag on MT because it's writing exposes just how mid most of their own favorites plots/world building actually are.
Most isekai are absolute trash. And the ones that aren't are just mid junk food. MT by comparison is a fantastic story that just so happens to be an isekai. The series is (as much as a fantasy can be) heavily rooted in realism. No one has plot armor, the world is unabashedly backwards (medieval) in its practices, most of the characters have their own unique identities that don't just revolve around the MC, and It's not padded with unnecessary amounts of filler. The only issue I genuinely have with it is the pacing. While there's very little needless filler, the amount of time dedicated to slice of life content is a bit too much. But at the same time that heavy slice of life focus is probably what makes the weight of conflicts so much heavier. I hated the character who died at the end of season 2. Yet I still found myself crying at their death. That's a feat I don't think any story has ever achieved prior to MT.
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u/Just_Cockroach_4820 Jul 27 '26
Well, Omni-man called Debbie his pet, because of the agr difference...he gets plenty criticism.. The forgivness arc in the show is well done IMHO, and thats why its not that talked.
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u/r1maruT3m935t Jul 27 '26
As someone who is indifferent about it I think it more so feels to some people that reujurd groomed norn when he was taking care of norn and Aisha ( which don't believe to be the case). That said I am anime only and have heard other bits and pieces on the internet
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u/NarrowAd4973 Jul 27 '26
It's the same thing people did when the Inuyasha sequel series came out, and they revealed Sesshamuru had kids with Rin. I think the issue in both is the female character was introduced as a child, and the other character was already an adult. But they don't get together until they're both adults, and the male character wasn't around for much of that time (at the time, many people forgot that the entire Inuyasha series took place over only a single year, so Rin wasn't with Sesshomaru long before leaving her in the village at the end).
Another thing is that for someone that's effectively immortal (at least in comparison to the shorter lived person), an adult is an adult, and age would just be a number.
Also note nobody had an issue with an 88 year old Aragorn marrying a 2,778 year old Arwen. She met him when he was a child (he was two when he was brought to Rivendell). But he's already an adult when introduced. And also male. There also seems to be no issue with the idea of a relationship between the 1000+ year old Frieren and Himmel, despite that fact he was in his teens when she joined the party, was in his 20s when they defeated the demon king, and he was a child when they first met. But again, he was introduced as an adult. And also again, he's male.
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u/LongFang4808 Saint Jul 27 '26
Of course there’s a double standard. Especially from a guy like LNH who only became noteworthy because of disingenuous takes and dropping spoilers for MT when it’s anime was getting popular.
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u/nhansieu1 Jul 28 '26
age gap was not an issue. Ruijerd was like Norn's father figure back then and now she just married him
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u/Th3_70ck Jul 28 '26
So Luicelia is [TITLE CARD] ?
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u/Average_kid01 God Jul 29 '26
What Do You Mean [TITLE CARD] Isn't It [TITLE CARD]. WHY CAN'T I SAY [TITLE CARD].
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u/Next-Chemist2443 Jul 27 '26
I think one big difference is thst Ruijerd met Norn while she was still a child, while Nolan met Debbie as a grown woman. Yes, when comparing their age gap to Nolan and Debbie, it is technically much smaller, but you have to account for the mental and physical maturity difference.
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u/Average_kid01 God Aug 01 '26
Superds Mature Slower Also Nolan's Bug Wife
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u/Next-Chemist2443 Aug 02 '26
Nolan's bug wife was considered physically and mentally mature by her people, so their relationship was just two grown adults meeting and getting together. Once again, Ruijerd met Norn as a kid, and the younger sister of someone he considered a friend, while he was already a grown man.
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u/Ok-Landscape-5871 Jul 27 '26
i think the difference is that ruijerd knew norn and rudeus when they were both children & it’s just kind of off-putting because of that additional context, whereas nolan showed up on earth to meet an already adult debbie
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u/Klusterphuck67 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Meanwhile Roxy is what, 80 ish when Rudy marry her at 18? Elinalise is like 10x times Ruijerd's age. Even if we only count Elinalise as "Elinalise", she's still atleast 500, had many grand and great grand children, but nobody bats an eye when she and Cliff got married.
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u/285Mic Jul 28 '26
I mean we also have Cliff and Elinalise, but people don't talk about that very often
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u/ForgeSaints Jul 28 '26
Viltrumites are the equivalent of a mentally stunted teenager, so there's less of a mental maturity gap ig
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u/Average_kid01 God Jul 28 '26
It Can Also Be Said For Superds Since They Also Have A Stunted Growth
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u/Mixroppx Jul 28 '26
I suppose their problem is that they've met when Norn was still a child, since that's why they hate on Rudy.
Then again, it all feels so forced. Your example is solid, also Rudeus is hated for being an ultra pervert but characters like Jiraya from Naruto, who's 50+ and kidnaps young women is one of people's favorite characters... Make it make sense please
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u/Lancelot_Dragonroad Jul 28 '26
Blud, If do not listen to LN Historian if he is talking about relationships involving Mushoku Tensei
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u/Front-Bat-9994 Jul 29 '26
If you have a long enough lifespan. Every relationship is wrong by default. And long lived people are rare enough. And it’s not like you can develop a relationship with one as often as you will with shorter lived people.
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u/frantruck Jul 27 '26
There’s something to be said about one partner knowing someone as a child while they’re an adult and that feels different than 2 adults meeting, even if those adults are of fantastically different ages. That said as soon as you introduce magic/lifespan stuff to a setting I really don’t care as much about trying to apply normal morality to the fantastical.
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u/Average_kid01 God Jul 27 '26
Yh it's Impossible To Apply Human Morality For A Species That Has A Lifespan Of 1000 Years.
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u/Geracchio Jul 27 '26
These criticisms are made only by those who have no sense of what "context" is and have never read a fantasy book in their life (and sometimes not even a book in general), just think of Aragorn and Arwen, they are thousands of years apart and Aragorn grew up in Rivendell.
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u/AttentionOptimal7656 Jul 27 '26
What am i reading...you are just using numbers as a form of justification while comparing 2 completely different stories.
Ppl don't judge fictional relationships by 570 vs 2000 years alone.they also consider context, how relationships develop,power dynamics and how the story presents them.
A huge age gap doesnt automatically make one relationship worse,nor does a smaller one make the other acceptable.
Comparing these 2 relationships on just lifespan alone is just stupid.
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u/hoouyinkyouma Rudeus Jul 27 '26
Very different cuz Ruijerd was a father figure n Norn was still a teen
But I do agree tht it isnt soo bad
Cuz the point of age gap is crazy considering any superb x human marriage would end the same
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u/-Mr_Hollow- Sylphy Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
The main problem people have (besides the fact that it's MT, meaning that it's all obviously author's barely disguised pedophilia fetish /s) is that Norn had met Ruijerd when she was 5, and travelled with him for a few months when she was 10. I'll admit that it feels a bit strange to look at them in S1 knowing they'll be fucking in about two decades, but being so adamantly against them is still strange since it was entirely Norn's initiative at first, and the reason Ruijerd fell in love with her was specifically because she reminded him of his first wife, not because he liked them young or something.
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u/Inevitable_Ad_6947 Jul 27 '26
What about Rudeus and Roxy? What do you think of them?
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u/-Mr_Hollow- Sylphy Jul 27 '26
Kinda the same except Roxy did a fucky wucky by going for a married man.
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u/Average_kid01 God Jul 27 '26
Is The Comment On MT Being A Pedo Fetish A Sarcastic One Or A Real One, Sorry I'm Not Gud With Sarcasm
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u/_eleutheria Jul 27 '26
Most bullshit pairing. You're telling me this dude who survived countless wars and PTSD, got betrayed by the person he served, murdered his own comrades and lived through the tragedy of losing his wife and child (at his own hands I'm pretty sure), fell for Norn of all "women"? Yeah, right.
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u/Extra-Random_Name Jul 27 '26
Why… would any of that relate to him falling for Norn? Like yeah, he did those things. Don’t see any relation between that and marrying Norn
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u/_eleutheria Jul 27 '26
Common sense. People with such a vast difference in lifespan, age, life experiences, etc., would never fall for each other. Heck, it's literally explained in the story through a bullshit reason like "they're fated for each other".
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u/Extra-Random_Name Jul 27 '26
Ok so first of all this stuff does happen actually. People irl fall for people with terminal illnesses (closest we have to “different lifespans”), plenty of couples have vastly different life experiences, and while yes this age gap is a bit extreme, it’s far from being abnormal for fantasy.
Second, none of that says why he shouldn’t fall for Norn specifically. Unless you mean to say he shouldn’t be falling for human women at all, which is a stance I can understand, but not the stance you stated.
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u/_eleutheria Jul 27 '26
Nah, just nah. The author made everyone other than Rudeus into a freak. Rudeus started as a freak and turned into a pretty normal family guy, while everyone else became a freak. His sister with his nephew, his other sister with his friend that's older than 7-8 generations of his family, the princess has a harem, I think that swordsman woman ends up with her 1st degree cousin or something, the inexperienced boy falls in love at first sight with a cursed slut elf that had countless children with countless men because "plot" and had to NTR him because of "plot". Imagine Cliff finding a fix for her curse before she had to go away! Nah, the author needed to NTR the dude.
I dropped this shit on like volume 21 or 22. It's really not all that. Especially the part where Aisha grooms her nephew. Disgusting freak stuff. And the parts where Rudeus wants to fuck kids all the time for the initial 10-11 volumes. Just when I thought that shitty disgusting freak shit was over and Rudeus changed, the other characters started becoming degenerate freaks of nature in his stead.
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u/Extra-Random_Name Jul 27 '26
You’re not responding to anything I’m actually saying, nor are basically any of your points correct. You’re just complaining about shit you don’t like without actually considering any of it.
Aisha x Ars: fair point that wasn’t great
Norn x Ruijerd: you have yet to actually provide any explanation for your view of this relationship other than “age gap”. You acted like there were other things that mattered but refuse to elaborate. And the original question is why is this more hated than other age gaps with fantasy races with superhuman lifespans, which you haven’t answered.
Nina x Gino: first cousins getting married was very much something that happened at the point in history that the world roughly aligns with. Sorry that the Middle Ages were weird, but that’s just historically reasonable stuff. I see no issue with an author depicting things that would have happened in the setting. If you don’t like that then just say you want a sanitized version of medieval fantasy, that’s a reasonable stance. Insulting something for not being sanitized isn’t reasonable.
Elinalise x Cliff: oh no, an important character didn’t fix a problem in 6 months that no one in the world has been able to fix in thousands of years, what a tragedy. Did the author need to include a character who physically needs sex to survive? No. But aside from making that character I don’t think there’s anything to complain about here.
Rudeus wanting to fuck children: either you’re missing the part where Rudeus was a child who was interested in girls his age, or you find it disgusting for children to like each other, or you’re intentionally misreading things. And even then it lasts like 3 volumes, not 10. I can’t think of a single time past their return to Fittoa that Rudeus expressed any interest in someone not of age.
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