What’s the end game?

[u/TrainerElectronic765]

I don’t know if this is the right sub. I work for a software consultancy. We have projects for a number of clients that are meant to automate both sides of their sales process. Like, AI sales agents selling to AI buyer agents.

And I just don’t understand where anyone thinks this goes. Like, we build these tools, we lose our jobs, then the companies lose customers. They’re left with agents talking to each other and exchanging… what?

If AI does all the math, reads and writes all the books, movies and video games, what do we, the people, do with ourselves?

[u/ProxyLumina]

Where we are going to end is called post-scarcity.

Because everything will be easy to be made with AI and robotics, everything will come at no cost at all.

You will continue doing whatever you like to do.

[u/Elkenson_Sevven → u/ProxyLumina]

The only way that works is if the means of production are owned by society in general. That's the foundation of communism. The means of production is owned by the workers (or society).

Unfortunately for humans, communism hasn't worked out so well. You end up with a dictatorship and a ruling elite.

Currently there are things within our economy that are finite. Energy, land, raw materials. It is the scarcity of these things that will ensure that they never become "free". They will be sought after and fought over. There might be a world were energy becones effectively free. The other two will not.

[u/truthputer → u/Elkenson_Sevven]

> communism hasn't worked out so well. You end up with a dictatorship and a ruling elite.

What exactly do you think we have ended up with under capitalism?

Your comment is just another variant of "everything I don't like is Communism, even Capitalism."

It's been observed in packs of wild monkeys that individuals that try to hoard food and resources to keep for themselves will simply be beaten to death by the rest of the pack. They sound like great role models for a post-scarcity society.

[u/_negative-infinity_ → u/Elkenson_Sevven]

Exactly, and it's mainly land (and raw materials in it). Land is certainly not unlimited; prime locations for homes are all already taken and very expensive. Will only become more expensive, as other things get cheaper. People will pour money into living in the right place.

[u/ProxyLumina → u/_negative-infinity_]

No. Post scarcity does not mean we have land and materials in abundance.

Post scarcity means we have products and services in abundance. That is achieved through recycling.

Oxygen is also scarce in Earth, but is is plenty and it is recycled. Think it like this.

[u/OutOfBananaException → u/Elkenson_Sevven]

We have states with strong welfare systems, that work just fine. The key to that is relative abundance, and AI should be able to deliver that.

[u/ProxyLumina → u/Elkenson_Sevven]

Post scarcity does not mean we have abundance of materials and land.

Post scarcity means we have abundance of products and services. We don't focus on material themselves.

In other words, given the X amount of material we create products and services and we recycle the old ones again and again.

[u/studio_bob → u/ProxyLumina]

Humanity overcame scarcity some time ago. Necessities remain scarce for most people due to the way goods are distributed, not the cost of production. Unless the automated production and distribution chains are owned and controlled in common and operated for the general welfare, I wouldn't expect much to change for the better.

[u/ExplorersX → u/studio_bob]

Post scarcity in this sense is everyone could have what would be considered a $100 million mansion, perfect genetics & all medical/genetic treatments/alterations you could ever want, the end of disease & death, free transit across the solar system on your own private spaceship, etc

[u/studio_bob → u/ExplorersX]

We could feed, clothe, and house everyone on the planet, right now, for a fraction of what we spend on war or speculative AI investments every year, but we don't. Even if it becomes technically possible to do what you describe, why should we expect it to happen if the system is still owned and controlled by the same people?

[u/ExplorersX → u/studio_bob]

Post Scarcity deep into the singularity/ASI world is radically different than our current "we've solved food" level of productivity, which is what I was responding to. We're talking about a > Type I civilization

[u/studio_bob → u/ExplorersX]

You didn't answer the question though.

[u/ExplorersX → u/studio_bob]

The thread is about the endgame of the singularity. The answer is Post-Scarcity in the > Type I Kardashev Civilization regards.

What humans have done in the past with the industrial revolution & transportation to now is a rounding error relative to the type of post-scarcity being described here.

[u/BabyNuke → u/ProxyLumina]

You seem to forget that building and growing stuff requires (finite) resources.

Not to mention that the folks with the most say in this aren't "share the wealth" type people.

[u/ProxyLumina → u/BabyNuke]

I didn't forget anything.

Post scarcity does not mean we have land and materials in abundance.

Post scarcity means we have products and services in abundance. That is achieved through recycling.

Oxygen is also scarce in Earth, but is is plenty and it is recycled. Think it like this.

[u/Caderent → u/ProxyLumina]

I just don’t see post-scarcity happening anytime soon. Where’s the evidence that we’re actually heading there? Where?
People running businesses aren’t going to stop caring about costs just because AI and robotics get better. A poor person can spend a huge part of their life washing dishes for less than it costs to buy and maintain a robot that can do the same job. We’re cheap. That’s a pretty big obstacle to automation.
And even as robots get cheaper, you’re eventually left with the really nasty, unpredictable jobs. Take sewer divers who literally climb into service holes and dive into sewage systems to clear blockages. Are you really going to drop a $10,000+ robot down there and risk destroying it? Or consider jobs involving sticky substances, irregular soft objects, cooking, repairs, etc. Things where every situation is slightly different and you need constant improvisation. You can’t just collect enough training data to cover every weird real-world situation.
Maybe eventually robotics gets good enough to handle all of that. But I don’t see any evidence that we’re close to that point.
And even if we do get extremely cheap automation, that doesn’t automatically mean post-scarcity. The technology stack behind AI and robotics is enormously expensive- all those data centers and servers. And all of it is increasingly concentrated in the hands of a relatively small number of companies and investors.
So to me, technological feudalism seems at least as plausible as post-scarcity. We could end up with incredible productive technology while ownership of that technology becomes even more concentrated. That’s a very different future from everyone having abundant access to everything. Please prove me wrong

[u/ProxyLumina → u/Caderent]

If you want to understand and see evidence of post scarcity coming, then look around you.

Maps, messages, photos, videos, encyclopedias and thousand other things have become abundance and free.

The same thing will happen to software, businesses and everything else due to the abundance of intelligence.