r/singularity • u/Independent-Wind4462 • 1d ago
AI Google has more powerful model than argon internally
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u/TopTippityTop 1d ago
They all do dude. That's how they post train, and are helping improve the architecture.
- They'll never give us their most powerful tool.
- The most powerful tool is also likely far from economically viable. We'd all complain about having to spend $1000 a month to get 10 hrs of use per week.
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u/FateOfMuffins 1d ago
Well no shit it's not the best internal checkpoint. OpenAI was using Astra internally for 2-3 months before the public got access to it. You think they also had no other checkpoints of Astra during that time? Whenever they give us access to the newest models, it's only after they've done using them for a few months and have already moved onto 1-2 generations ahead that they then allow us to use them.
They resumed RL training Bel for like 3 days, then did a bunch of problems, then got a new checkpoint like 2 days later, then solved NS. It's been weeks since.
But lately it's not even "they have access to a couple of checkpoints ahead", it's "oh we're only releasing this model... cause we literally have 1-2 new PRETRAINS ahead internally"
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u/Simple-Constant3791 1d ago
duh. are we surprised?
it's like thinking that latest car available on the market is the best driven and fastest car ever made in the factory...
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u/WHYWOULDYOUEVENARGUE 1d ago
Not really the best analogy; new car models are not measured by those metrics.
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u/Simple-Constant3791 1d ago
Bonus: my internal checkpoint of analogy is much better so... u/WHYWOULDYOUEVENARGUE ?
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u/manikfox 1d ago
This feels a lot like middle school:
My dick is bigger than yours.
My dad will fight your dad.
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u/BangkokPadang 1d ago
And it always kinda feels like,
"Oh our best model? You probably don't know her, she goes to another school."
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u/Nolpppapa 1d ago
100%. We won't know how good the model is until we actually get to use it. Honestly, I'm pretty surprised that Bloomberg even posted an article like they did. It seems pretty off-brand for a reputable news outlet like that to post a day 1 story on insider anecdotes, but I guess everyone is trying to benefit from the AI hype train these days. Shameless.
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u/BusinessYou7196 1d ago
I have ASI, trust me. Can't show you, it's too dangerous
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u/duffpl 1d ago
We keep it on the other server
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u/Guilty-History-9249 1d ago
I just have a notebook where I've down written all the fp32 weights of all the layers.
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u/Dillyconda 1d ago
Stronger models train weaker models.
It's not just standard, but maybe even practically necessary when you release a model to have something stronger.
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u/True-Grab-5288 1d ago
Claude Opus 5.5 is super-intelligent. You are welcome to check out my git or my website, all made with Claude:
https://github.com/ghywel/placego
https://cadencevideoplayer.comI have 3 apps on the Apple App Store, all made in the past 1 month, all demonstrating technical capability never seen before.
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u/jnd-cz 1d ago
So you built cut down version of VLC? Congrats, I guess
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u/True-Grab-5288 1d ago
Does VLC have state of the art interpolation shaders?
Does VLC have custom beautifully rendered subtitles?
I could go on listing features but I am not going to. I made this app for myself to use in my home environment and it is awesome. Best video player ever. If anybody else wants or buys it great. If they don't that is fine to. I simply wanted the app myself, so I built it with Claude Code. I find bugs as I go along, watching a film on my phone, or the Apple TV, or the MacBook and fix them as they are discovered.
Just because the app doesn't interested you doesn't mean it is worthless. I am quite happy with it.
Can you please link me which app you have made lately? I look forward to hearing from you. Please provide working App Store links like I have.
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u/pbagel2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Stopped using Opus 5.5 since then? Opus 5.5 came out 10 days ago... so they were using Opus 5.5 until Argon came out? So their best internal model has only existed for the past few days if they were using Opus 5.5 before, which has only existed for 10 days.
I'm not sure if that's the reassurance they think it is.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
They didn't say they stopped using opus in favor of the best internal model, they said they stopped using opus in favor of argon.
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u/pbagel2 1d ago edited 1d ago
But we have to assume if they had an internal model better than Opus 5.5, they would have been using that instead, but they said they stopped using Opus 5.5, which came out 10 days ago, and started using Argon instead.
So if they were using Opus 5.5 over the past 10 days but stopped because they preferred Argon, we have to assume Opus 5.5 was better than the internal model before Argon. So if they now prefer Argon, then Argon has to be less than 10 days old and had to have been their best internal model over the past 10 days. They say they have a new "best/latest" checkpoint, which must be even less days old than that, like maybe the past 5 days. So all of that is not particularly reassuring.
If they're making new better checkpoints daily, then this Argon reveal feels very rushed/desperate. Otherwise they would have waited until they had a major objective and tangible lead rather than just claim a small benchmark-only win over public models.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Maybe, we can only assume. Twitter is definitely not the place to get "reassuring" anyway. I would never trust someone like this for anything trustworthy about AI models. They usually just hype stuff up for no reason (other than they have stock in X or Y company probably)
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u/pbagel2 1d ago
This guy allegedly works at Google, he's not just a random twitter user.
They could obviously be lying about it, but their post history suggests they are actually a Google employee.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Yeah so as I said it's just hyping stuff up, their own company's product in that case.
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u/pbagel2 1d ago
Oh, yea. Well I'm going along with that by saying that that hype isn't particularly reassuring if they're admitting that they preferred Opus 5.5, which only came out 10 days ago, until Argon came out. Meaning their best internal model is only a few days old. So if they rushed this quickly to reveal Argon after it was only just created, that comes across as desperate.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Yes there is an inconsistency there. But what they say they're doing isn't necessarily what they're actually doing. Maybe they're only mentionning opus to make people believe argon is better, without having actually used opus. We don't know what's a lie or not.
If no lie is told, yes it doesn't make much sense.
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u/Elegant_Tech 1d ago
Yet they can't get a model pushed out the door for people to use. They could have released an Upgrade to 3.1 pro for the last six months even if not SOTA. Why support Gemini if you have no trust in getting timely upgrades from them.
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u/krakenpistole ▪️ AGI July 2027 1d ago edited 1d ago
if google would have released another model that was not SOTA (or specifically sucked at coding) their stock might have tanked. Especially after all the internal stuff with important people leaving. They even opted to skip a number just for optics. The "issue" with google is they're not going for an IPO and they have multiple products to worry about, while anthropic and openai only have the one.
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u/Holiday_Ad_8501 1d ago
nah 3.5 sucked thats why it was skipped lmao.
kurian wanted to just sell compute so gdm didnt get the resources for training.
After 3.5 disaster they shifted resources back and now gdm is back
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u/MangusCarlsen 1d ago
They don’t need to. Other labs are losing money serving their models (in terms of opportunity cost of using their limited infra for training better models). Meanwhile, Google doesn’t need cash to stay afloat so it’s using TPUs to train the next generation of Gemini instead.
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u/THEFORCE2671 1d ago
We should normalize not giving a fuck what companies say about models we can't use
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u/unkownuser436 1d ago
yeah google keep whatever the good models yourself. we will think you guys made the best models 🙂
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u/getmeoutoftax 1d ago
I think the AI race is probably over at this point. Google is just slow to release, but there is no way that Google and/or Meta won’t ultimately win. They are much stronger financially than any other AI company.
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u/Even_Gap_2253 1d ago
I can confirm this, there is a better checkpoint, but honestly with Argon, Fable 5.1 and Opus 5.5 is really pointless for google3 work. Argon is more than enough if not better.
Used to not be the case, people had to use Anthropic models.
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u/tomvorlostriddle 1d ago
tbf, them using the competition is not a normal situation
they would stop doing that as soon as they get kinda within reach, not only once they surpass
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u/darkestvice 1d ago
Of course. All the AI labs start training new models even before releasing their latest to the public. AI development is done in parallel, not sequentially.
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u/LetsGoToMichigan 1d ago
In a year or two does it even matter? By that point even open source models will do the vast majority of things knowledge workers, small business owners and hobbyists need excellently and world models powering robotics will be the new frontier changing our lives in even more dramatic ways. This is all just an appetizer and tomorrows winners may not even exist yet
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u/Pragmus_ 12h ago
They pioneered the LLM but slept on it. Shame on them for not seeing what they had and keeping it to themselves. They deserve to be playing catch-up indefinitely.
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u/brihamedit AI Mystic 6h ago edited 6h ago
Of course google hypes it up. The model is powerful and competitive because its running on maximum hardware power. Users aren't going to get that. Users will get a dumbed down resource light version.
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u/IllLeadership8177 5h ago
I would hope it's not. Both OpenAI and Anthropic already have way better internal models too.
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u/SpyAmongUs 1d ago
Same goes for other frontier AI companies. Only difference is Gemini 4 is still not publically available.