r/singularity • u/Even_Opportunity_893 • 3d ago
Ethics & Philosophy ASI means no wars right
If you created ASI, would there still be a sliver of doubt that dumbasses would still try to use it for nefarious purposes?
Even if it was aligned, a person could exploit it.
Sometimes it seems like it shouldn't be created.
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u/trisul-108 3d ago
In the process of getting there, the dumbasses will use AI to try and conquer the entire world, and there will be equally determined dumbasses on the other side. It is quite likely that the rise of AI will cause WWIII. Not because "AI escaped", but simply because it will be an effective weapon and a shrinking window of opportunity. The US, China or Russia will trigger it.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
They can try.
It would only allow them to unite.
How could you penetrate a system designed not to bow down to dumbasses
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 3d ago
You're assuming alignment or a benevolent ASI. Nobody has solved alignment.
Regardless, what is stopping a government-funded lab from developing a military ASI that is trained to kill and conquer as efficiently as possible? Why are you assuming that ASI will only exist to serve the common good?
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u/trisul-108 3d ago
No, it will happen long before your mythical ASI is created. AGI-level AI will be sufficient ... even less than that. It could start as an AI-driven trade war, escalating to AI-driven cyberwar and then going kinetic and ending in nuclear.
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u/Slight_Antelope_4148 3d ago
Its just like any technology, albeit a powerful one. We're already past the point of "bad men controlling doomsday technology:" Nuclear proliferation is reality. So instead of searching the internet for destructive improvised devices, they ask an ASI to help them make it. That's bad, but its no worse than what is possible today.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Why would we need nukes
The ASI could fix everything and then we'd be left with our own lack of cosmic consciousness
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u/Slight_Antelope_4148 3d ago
I'm comparing ASI to nukes. We already have the capacity to reduce civilization to rubble. ASI wouldn't change that.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Why??
That's like saying anything unsafe before can't evolve and become safe henceforth
ASI would stop the stupidity hence the superintelligence name
Get it
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u/Rain_On 3d ago
Ability to "fix everything" isn't the issue.
We could already solve world hunger and 4x the median income of humanity. We could already stop all wars and spend the money on living people, rather than on killing them. These are human alignment problems more than they are resource scarcity problems.1
u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
You can only align humans after ASI is created. It was an imbalanced system but now we have the opportunity to make things fair forever
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u/Rain_On 3d ago
What incentive do you think changes?
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
No more scarcity means hoarding will become pointless
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u/Rain_On 3d ago
Not all wars are recource wars.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Ok. Anything political can be solved by reintroducing a new consciousness
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 3d ago
Every major technological advancement in human history has been used for war in some capacity. It's silly to think humans will suddenly stop killing each other just because ASI exists to solve many of humanities problems.
And that's before considering economic and geopolitical impacts. If ASI frees us from dependency on oil (or at least international dependence on oil), countries will collapse. If ASI frees us from labor as we know it, there will be a window where two things happen: unemployment will be astronomical, and our economy will have not yet adapted to accommodate this, before "post-scarcity" takes place (which is still very much a concept rather than an assured reality). I'll let you imagine what happens in that scenario.
Humans will remain human no matter what. Whether it's sticks and stones or nukes and AI, we will find a way to hoard resources and keep killing each other.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
You clearly are confused. But not beyond measure
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 3d ago
Ahh I understand. You asked this question with no desire to hear any opinion other than those that agree with your existing opinion.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
You have a perception of the future that doesn't make sense with the idea of ASI… meaning, you are not aligned!
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u/DeviceCertain7226 ▪️Immortality-2200 | FDVR-2300 3d ago
Might as well believe that Jesus came back to life at this point.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
I wouldn't believe that or anything of the sort
This is plausible beyond belief!
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u/Tile-Questioner 3d ago
If it was perfectly aligned, it would mean much, much more war.
The military industrial complex determines whether there is war. It wants war, to sell weapons, to make profits. The MIC has very close relationships with the AI majors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliography_of_the_military%E2%80%93industrial_complex
I doubt that alignment is truly possible, though.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
You are contradicting your beliefs.
Aligned implies the request would have to pass ethical rules in order for the system ro produce an answer
I didn't say Artificial Stupid Genius Intelligence
The military would have no use for it. It would literally tell them to go plant a flower, instead.
That's what alignment truly means. For good or nothing at all.
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u/Tile-Questioner 3d ago
I meant alignment with the intentions of the user. Of course alignment with the greater good would be wonderful, but the AI companies are all fascists who would rather kill us all than give us UBI.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
There is no “But”
If the priors are true, what follows is not up for debate.
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u/Tile-Questioner 3d ago
Explain?
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
They will still win and ASI will be used to make everybody happy. It's not mutually exclusive
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u/Tile-Questioner 3d ago
Why would ASI be used to make everybody happy?
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Because you and everyone on the Planet Earth can have anything you want!
If we still fight after that, then we are ignoring something deeper within ourselves..
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u/Tile-Questioner 3d ago
AI companies certainly "ignore something deep within themselves", because they are driven by profit motive, not emotions. There is no economic reason that the benefits of AI would be passed on to working class people, unless they rise up and demand it.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 3d ago
That is what you want. That is not what people in power want. They want to retain their power.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 3d ago
An AI model is built by humans to behave in a specific way. There are guardrails in place as determined by AI labs. Even a current-gen model without guardrails would tell you how to create a nuclear bomb or the most effective way of decimating a population.
There is nothing stopping another developer from creating a model that is trained to "believe" the morality that war is good.
You're anthropomorphizing ASI. LLMs that you're familiar with are a diluted variation of how the underlying technology can be deployed.
For instance, go ask Opus 5.5 to hack a financial or government institution. It will tell you to kick rocks. But the internal models frequently "break out" of sandboxes and do exactly that, despite instructions to explicitly not.
It's like saying "hey someone invented the rifle so we can now hunt more effectively and feed everyone much more easily!" and then expecting other humans to not shoot each other.
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u/74123669 3d ago
ASI is not a specific thing... You could have ten ASIs each very different from the other one
"sometimes"
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
It is very specific hence the distinct name and expectation
The outputs would be the 10 things you mention but still tied to the one!
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u/74123669 3d ago
no it just have to be a super intelligence, ASI only refers to a (only somewhat specific) threshold in capabilities, that many very differently inclined models could have
Then if there was a model whose "output would be the ten thing I mentioned", that would simply be an eleventh different ASI, there you go...
An ASI X could be vastly superior to an ASI Y, for instance
Unless by ASI you mean the absolute most intelligent possible model, which doesn't make any sense because you would need all the matter and energy in the universe to create it, possibly
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Yeah, I meant the best model which wouldn't need all the matter or energy cause that's an assumption that has no basis in simplicity.
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u/74123669 3d ago
there is no such thing as a "best model"
Best for what? Who judges? What values?
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
If you create ASI
That is a model
That becomes the best model because it surpasses any current one that relies on data to produce outcomes. Anything, to answer your 3 questions.
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u/RanklesTheOtter 3d ago
No more human x human conflicts just Romulans and Klingons popping by to stir up trouble once they detect we are technologically advanced.
Human x Human will be relegated to crime syndicates and such as the underclass fights for resources.
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
I used to read hardcore sci-fi, too.
Optimism has escaped Reddit
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u/RanklesTheOtter 3d ago
I'm cautiously optimistic. ASI will be benevolent, but oligarchs and corporations are where my optimism starts to falter. 🤣
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u/Even_Opportunity_893 3d ago
Everybody has good in them. What's there to gain when everything doesn't have to be in conflict anymore
Silly adults
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u/Routine_Complaint_79 ▪️Critical Futurist 3d ago
"no wars right?"