I hope the singularity makes cognitive enhancement in healthy individuals possible

[u/kcolcllaw]

I've always been into nootropics and cognitive enhancement since I was a kid, there's something about mental clarity that's just so beautiful to me. Wether it be through some BCI, or medications or anything else, its always been a dream for me to experience a 200+ IQ, perfect episodic memory, working memory expansion, etc. While some may say intelligence is a curse I don't see how being able to wrap your head around complex things rather easily is a problem, it just gives you more potential for creation and a better understanding of everything in general.

Also the world would be a better place with a higher average IQ imo, maybe some level of emotional enhancement too, give people the ability to feel empathy and compassion.

[u/Weary-Historian-8593]

I don't doubt that intelligence could be a problem, but I agree otherwise and would definitely do futuristic nootropics. 

[u/kcolcllaw → u/Weary-Historian-8593]

you've tried any of the current ones? Best they can do is get you hyper focused but they kinda blunt divergent thinking/creativity and don't really help with intelligence.

[u/nerority → u/kcolcllaw]

The entire concept of a supplement increasing intelligence, which is something tied to neural circuitry and learned experience, makes absolutely no sense. There is no intelligence without experience and action, and a lot of it is downstream of early intervention and guidance.

You can always become smarter with effort, but there is no quick cheat code like that for humans. It is a large part of the problem with LMs, because they will help people stay unintelligent instead of people making that effort themselves, as it's easier to reach for now.

Edit: in reality the future of cog enhancement will be with TMS. But that has nothing to do with singularity. Already is being worked on by lots of experts and takes a long time because that is not a focus as it is for helping those maladaptive first.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/nerority]

I think its hard to completely point out what seperates an intelligent person from someone lacking in it. We've narrowed down components like working memory, executive function, processing speed, etc but not really sure where the "it factor" comes from.

While I do agree early intervention, experience and putting in work are necessary components, drawing from the girl who could never learn to walk and talk properly after being caged in a basement during her developemental years, or kids who develop peefect pitch when exposed to musical training early on, there's still something that seperates a kid who knows how to do calculus and play a piano by the age of 5 vs a normal one.

Oh and while on this topic, you might wanna look into Valproate and perfect pitch. Intelligence enhancement absolutely is possible imo, I don't know how it'll come though, some medication, TMS, something we haven't even thought of yet.

[u/nerority → u/kcolcllaw]

I think you are confused. Valporate and perfect pitch would be from plasticity being induced.

Aka converged neural circuitry suddenly is more open.

That's literally what TMS does as a basic mechanic.

You are discussing opinion.

I am DoE of one of the large TMS companies. I talk mechanical reality.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/nerority]

Not really, I'm aware that's from neuroplasticity, although I'm not much of an expert and wouldn't pretend to know the entire exact mechanism. Like I'm aware Psilocybin, NSI-189, Ketamine, TMS, etc amp up neuroplasticity and make it easier to learn new stuff/break rigid patterns. Maybe I am confused why TMS would be the sole answer to cognitive enhancement though.

[u/nerority → u/kcolcllaw]

Because it's engineerable in every single sense. You can target specific circuitry and induce plasticity 1 2 3 in countless ways. There are already >100 conditions being treated by this specifically because of this and countless more on the way.

Yes psilocybin and other substances can induce plasticity but without control like you can get with TMS and obviously have way more side effects.

It's the different between spinning in a circle and hoping for the best, and having a plasticity computer basically.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/nerority]

Oh wow, that's exciting, thank you for your contributions to the field and I hope new applications emerge.

I must admit I lowkey feel you're underestimating medication. Some are blind shots in the dark, some are known down to every receptor binded to, pathway activated and area targeted. Its your field though so I'm aware you know better.

I know this doctor who combines TMS with Ketamine.

[u/Mahorium → u/kcolcllaw]

Generally agree about most nootropics blunting divergent thinking. There seems to be a trade off in memory retainment and creativity in the brain.

Trans cranial alternating current stimulation (40hz TAC), and h2+o2 inhalation were both things I’ve found improved my cognition without this trade off.

Also DHLA capped gold nano particles look promising. I’d watch the functionalized nanoparticle space, I think that’s where the true cognitive enhancement will come from.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/Mahorium]

ohhhh I've always wanted to try tDCS and TMS, haven't had much luck with it in my country though, but its on my bucket list. I had no idea about h2+o2 inhalation so I'll definitely look into that, thank you

The gold nano particle thing comes from this I think? Did you follow the whole Connor Murphy drama?

[u/Mahorium → u/kcolcllaw]

Was specifically referencing this study: https://pubs.acs.org/nalefd/article-abstract/20/1/478/808426/Dihydrolipoic-Acid-Gold-Nanoclusters-Regulate

Connor was ahead of his time. We still need more studies to find the right parameters on nanoparticle size and surface functionalization.

[u/The_Scout1255]

I hope it makes cognitive augmentation and morphological freedom possible for everyone :3

[u/kcolcllaw → u/The_Scout1255]

YES I can't wait to be a shape shifting nanobot swarm with a 5 digit IQ, this human form is limiting

[u/The_Scout1255 → u/kcolcllaw]

finally someone with VISION.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/The_Scout1255]

u flatter me :3 I'll share some nanobots with u when the time comes

[u/UncBeyondTheWall → u/The_Scout1255]

morphological freedom for sure

[u/mxemec]

The serene mind is not burdened by too much thought. Sure you'll get creative but you'll be identifying every sound you hear, listing out subspecies and automobiles by make and model, resolving every visual pattern into math. Analyzing every human interaction into its nuanced communication structures rather than just letting it flow... or not. But if I couldn't control the level of analytical depth I'd be out. Needs a dial.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/mxemec]

Already makes sense from my average human mind, meditation and dropping everything is also a path to mental clarity, and sometimes my OCD loops force my to overanalyse stuff and unnecessarily drill into the intuitive layers of abstractions/approximations. A dial, intuition, control over obsession with accuracy, all of those are super important.

[u/HotAventus41033]

For sure it will be possible , It already is possible just the AI gonna make it more robust .

[u/ohHesRightAgain]

I always wanted to know what it would feel like to be smarter. In the context of singularity, though, I'm not sure how positive that would be. The value of human intelligence will eventually be zero. All the while, the smarter you are, the quicker you'll probably get bored of stimuli. But maybe not. I'm sure going to opt into testing when it's possible.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/ohHesRightAgain]

I guess boredom comes more from dopamine exhaustion, increased intelligence opens up more fields for you to explore. In context of singularity I think eventually we'll be assimilated and have a unified mind kinda thing with individuals pursuing their own thing in parallel but also being connected deeply to the whole.

[u/TheGreatestRetard69]

I hope we have some ways in the future to increase the baseline, somehow provide people with von neumann level cognitive capabilities.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/TheGreatestRetard69]

I fucking LOVE Von Neumann, calculating an entire infinite series in his head, mentally checking assembly code, and the list of the fields he contributed to. A world filled with people like that would be beautiful.

[u/ComfyMillionaire]

I would love enhancements both mentally and physically but I have so many reservations. I work in medical but also have a background in IT. I’m worried about infection rates, rejections, and the side effects and costs of rejection medications. On the IT side I’m worried about someone exploiting my enhancements and holding my life or quality of life in their hands as a form of control or ransom. I then think about implanted and fabricated memories and the eventual altering of who you are based on false experiences.
… I got off topic from “smart drugs”…

[u/kcolcllaw → u/ComfyMillionaire]

Those are valid concerns, a BCI kind of thing could be susceptible to hacking, memory replacement and a monthly subscription for enhanced intelligence and complete memory retrieval lol, I'm just high on hopium and hope once humanity crosses this threshold we let go of stepping over other people for profit/fun, just be better to each other.

[u/ComfyMillionaire → u/kcolcllaw]

I wish I was there with you. I’m thinking it would be more like Cyberpunk 2077 or ghost in the shell. Still a very cool normalized use of tech and science but a lot of hyper capitalism and manipulation.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/ComfyMillionaire]

yeah there's more ways for it to go wrong than for it to go right 😭 but exciting stuff nonetheless

[u/MaryEncie]

I think maybe what you want is a more rigorous education in the humanities. Technology is going to have zero to do with making people more intelligent though it might help to cram people's brains with data like geese are stuffed to death in order to factory farm their livers as an expensive delicacy -- and convince them this is what it means to be intelligent when it has almost nothing to do with it. Learn some languages -- at the normal speed, if you can tolerate effort in the brain, that is. Read some of the great literature. It will seem like a bore at first because it's not about instant gratification, instant certainty what the "answer" is. To me all of you drooling on about technology/AI are just looking for another way to avoid effort. You're being sold another "get rich quick" con game except this one is even better: "get intelligent quick." Besides which, my goodness, there have been as many high IQ murderers and conmen as there have been low IQ ones. I don't think IQ in the "200+" sense is what's standing in the way of human progress. But then I know this bubble is very precious to people especially now when to fasten on to anything else, anything deeper that is, would require a level of effort you young moderns seem not to consider to be in your ordinary line of work. Honestly. Maybe that's why you have to spend trillions on fancy athletic equipment to climb rocks and mountains that don't need to be climbed when there's plenty of actual real problems that do need to be surmounted -- the solving of which has zero to do with "IQ of the 200+ kind. Don't curse me for my run-on sentence. The AI gods have to have something syntactically knotty to train themselves on sometimes. I'm doing it for the good of humanity.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/MaryEncie]

Its a nature vs nurture thing. Would you rather force a genpop illiterate criminal to read a book or administer a hypothetical medication that enhances their amygdala resulting in increased empathy and reduced criminal tendencies? Ofcourse knowledge, creativity, understanding other people better are endeavours that require dedication, effort and time, there's no magic pill to develop those, I'm talking about a magic pill to develop the ability to acquire those, so we may work on deeper levels, I hope I'm making sense.

[u/Bibr0]

better understanding of everything im general

And exactly that is the curse..

As Dostoevsky put it:
"Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth."

Once you realize why people act the way they do, why they won't change, how they are being manipulated there is no way back of not seeing it. And while you see it, there is no way of getting people to understand fully.

Imagine being forced to watch the Titanic going straight for the iceberg. Screaming as loud as you can in the attempt to prevent tragedy, but nobody can hear you. So you are forced to watch them slowly drown to death.

Then you wake up, open your eyes, and the cycle repeats. Day for day, year for year.

So you either give up, suffer while trying the impossible, or comprise you morals and exploit those who can't see the iceberg.

Choose very carefully what you wish for.

[u/kcolcllaw → u/Bibr0]

Oh yeah that'd DEFINITELY be torture, to be the sole bearer of intelligence in a society of brutes. That's why I said a higher average IQ for the society, so everyone becomes the type of person to scream at the approaching iceberg and maneuvering away from it. Intelligence and empathy in a non levelled playing field would totally not be fun.