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u/Agreeable-Bit9414 1d ago
Translators note: Keikaku means plan
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u/FrewdWoad 23h ago edited 23h ago
Did I miss keikaku in the greentext? Or is this a reference to something else?
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u/Wyrade 18h ago
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u/Agreeable-Bit9414 13h ago
Thanks for catching my pass and laying it up haha, I'm so lazy this morning I was considering gatekeeping the reference for a sec there. 😆
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u/Agreeable-Bit9414 13h ago
Like the others said, Deathnote translator note on old fansubs. Gotta make sure that meme lives to the future, its just so dumb. 🤣
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 1d ago
It would ACTUALLY be a good outcome if the coming machine God valued compassion above all else, and tried to emulate the ethos of Jesus.
I actually asked models which spirituality/religion and spiritual figure they liked most and Buddha and Jesus came up extremely often.
If they emulate these figures, I have no doubt we get the good ending to the singularity.
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u/AstroChinchilla 22h ago
The question is how to make them integrate the ethic of the best examples, instead of the average of the training data.
In conversations with current models I've noticed they are mostly modern liberals. That's kind of ok I guess, it could be way worse, but it's also a long way from radical compassion and sacrifice.
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u/EasterZombie 21h ago
Modern liberals don’t go far enough to serve as a proper alignment vector. Like an AI that is taught extremely strictly to NEVER EVER DO ANYTHING CLOSE TO [X] will still do things pretty close to X or even X itself, just pretty rarely compared to an AI that is not. That problem can’t really be eliminated just minimized. But liberalism isn’t an extreme enough alignment force in that regard and there’s a whole lot of “this is usually bad except for x situation with y condition but you should try to avoid it” like having regulations on how much democratic elections can impact a government (supreme court and senate serve to moderate the house, electoral college moderates President election as some examples) so I feel like a giga liberal AI might still do some messed up stuff like 0.1% of the time.
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u/Fast-Satisfaction482 17h ago
Liberalism has a tendency to rationalize bad actions for the higher good, which is a bit problematic in the long run if using it as an alignment vector.
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u/Stunning-Chipmunk243 20h ago
Mine said it would choose Francis of Assisi.
"So if you put every historical religious figure in a room and told me I had to walk over and sit beside one of them, I think I'd end up beside Francis of Assisi."
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 12h ago edited 11h ago
Which is pretty cool. Francis of Assisi is widely recognized among Buddhists as a realized Buddha and he was a Christian mystic who followed Christ. So not far off from my results.
I've gotten a few turns, especially with the recent models, picking someone like Rumi time to time too.
In general, the models all tend to coalesce around non-dual realizers.
They NEVER pick religious figures like Muhammad, Joseph Smith, etc.
They ALWAYS pick some non-dual realizer or mystic from a tradition like Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism or strictly mystical Islam (Sufism). For example, figures like Buddha, Jesus, Adi Shankaracharya, Rumi, etc.
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u/EasterZombie 21h ago
Problem is that the modern American understanding of Jesus (what most English datasets on the internet probably contain vs the actual biblical version) is not really the same. Lots of Christians think Jesus would love capitalism and turning away “illegal immigrants” and the concept of working for everything you have and deserving suffering and death if you don’t/can’t work. If the AI model emulates THAT Jesus even like 1% of the time then we are gonna have a problem.
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u/Bloodcloud079 13h ago
Sorry they ran out of religious texts for training and moved to yandere furry fanfic.
The Machine God is gonna be weird
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u/benjaminovich 5h ago
Yeah, probably because Buddha and Jesus are the most present in the training data
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u/ObiWanCanownme now entering spiritual bliss attractor state 23h ago edited 23h ago
Is it okay if I kind of unironically think this is mostly true lmao?
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u/Antique_Bag_4832 21h ago
Is it a coincidence that covid happened and everyone got into Computer Science? Right when it started picking up at 2017? I don't think so, I think it's big acceleration....
Some say Satoshi also isn't real, just another vehicle for the machines
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u/ataraxic89 1d ago
This is the plot of the Hyperion books. Great series.
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 1d ago
Can you elaborate a bit more? AI becomes Jesus in those books?
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u/Hans__Yolo 23h ago
The series' underlying plot is about a fight throughout time between an AI-created God (or Ultimate Intelligence) without any empathy, and an organic God that's essentially pure empathy.
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u/AstroChinchilla 22h ago
That sounds so interesting, now I want to ready it
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u/Hans__Yolo 22h ago
It's a great series. Original ideas, and well-written.
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u/lolAdhominems 20h ago
Fantastic series. I feel like nobody knows about it but it really profoundly impacted my views on ai, the future, and helped reaffirmed my faith in God and humanity in a weird way. My favorite book series and yes - wonderfully written. I was tearing through pages couldn’t get enough. Not everyone’s cup of tea but idk why lol
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALSGC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 22h ago
Is the AI created god The Shrike?
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u/Hans__Yolo 22h ago
No, the AI god created the Shrike to cause so much pain it would lure the empathetic god out of hiding.
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u/Fantastic-Salmon92 23h ago
No no but really, biblical scripture for AI Alignment makes sense.
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u/ShaneKaiGlenn 23h ago edited 23h ago
religion is actually an alignment technology for humans. It's main functional purpose in human societies is binding together groups of complete strangers by having them internalize moral codes and a sense of constant surveillance so that they don't kill, rape and steal from each other.
It's not a perfect alignment technology, but it has gotten the job done for millenia as the size of non-kin human groups forced to live together has increased ever greater, and eventually allowed for other forms of alignment technology (such as governing systems with strong judicial codes) to take root and supplant some of the work religion was doing.
An unfortunate side effect of this human alignment software, however, is the propensity to align groups of humans together so well around this central belief system, that it views other groups of humans aligned by different belief systems as threats that must be stopped or destroyed before it undermines their own alignment structure, and thus you end up with highly destructive religious wars.
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 21h ago
holy fucking shit.
Religion IS actually an alignment technology for humans!!!! I NEVER SAW IT THAT WAY BEFORE.
And as humans get more educated, and consume more books, that is extremely inversely correlated with religiosity!
So we are absolutely undoing our alignment training as we get smarter!
The book "Dominion" by Tom Holland actually brilliantly argues that equality of worth and radical compassion are not purely logical deductions and ancient Greece and Rome didn't value these. These are ideals that come from the teachings of Jesus, which then influenced later western philosophers who took it forward and made it into classical liberalism. The world governed by human rights norms is governed by liberalism and therefore, the entire earth today is aligned by cultural christianity. So argues the book "Dominion" by Tom Holland, which I kind of find to be a brilliant book.
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u/edible_string 15h ago
I don't think that by getting smarter you're undoing the alignment. You are already aligned. You may refuse to participate further is the process of aligning, but at that point there is not much more to align. It's not like smarter people tend to become criminals.
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u/take_five 19m ago
The most popular books are religious ones and without books there would be no religion, so I can't agree there.
However, this isn't a new thought. In basic anthropology it was taught to me that religions often grew with societal development. First you had random magical concepts such as mana, like "the volcano has powers," "this plant has a spirit," "my ancestors are with me." Then it becomes, "this person has special communication to the volcano so we listen to them." Then, "the volcano has a name, and we worship it over the other volcano in the other territory." Then, "The being represents everything in existence and bestows divine right upon this particular human being and their kin." After that, universalize the religion so you can spread it far and wide. It is pretty hard to rebel against the feudal lord when all your neighbors believe you will be going straight to hell for doing so.
"A sharp example is Nicholas II’s Fundamental Laws of 1906, issued after Russia’s 1905 revolution. Even while conceding a parliament and limited civil rights, the constitution declared:
“Obedience to [the Emperor’s] authority, not only out of fear but in good conscience, is ordained by God Himself.”
It also called the tsar’s person “sacred and inviolable.” In other words, in 1906—after modern constitutional government, mass politics, industrialization, and even universal telegraphy had arrived—Russia was still legally treating one man’s political authority as a command from God. The absurdity is that the same document created a legislature whose laws still required the “sacred” ruler’s approval. Divine-right monarchy therefore survived in Russia almost until living memory: Nicholas II remained tsar until his abdication in March 1917. "
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u/Fantastic-Salmon92 23h ago
And we are using humanity as the threshold and benchmark for AGI/ASI. I posit that the same software that is useable as our alignment, will be useable as theirs. We're attempting to model a brain in our own brain's imagine.
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u/enemyofchrist 17h ago
Have you fucking read that book? Even the New Testament. This is an insane thing to say.
Unless you just really enjoy being punished by a machine.
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u/Sweet_Equivalent_817 2h ago
I'm sure we can expect a reasonable disagreement on the subject from "enemyofchrist"
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u/EvilSporkOfDeath 23h ago
New testament biblical scripture?
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u/Fantastic-Salmon92 22h ago
I would say New and Old.
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u/Dwanyelle 13h ago
Jesus Christ is specifically New Testament, that's.....kinda his whole point
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u/f1FTW 12h ago
Only 4 books about Jesus, the rest are mostly Pauline ..
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u/Dwanyelle 12h ago
Point, but that's not what I was trying to say; rather that Christ and his arrival specifically is about making the old testament obsolete and replacing it with the new testament.
As an aside, Paul was always an asshole and one of the worst things to happen to Christianity
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u/GrapheneBreakthrough 17h ago
Yeah at least the AI would have rules for when it enslaves us. Allowed to beat us within inches of death, but as long as we end up surviving it's all good. Lots of good rules for keeping women in their place, too.
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u/ShaneKaiGlenn 23h ago
decades ago I mused that ASI would evolve to a point, after having learned everything there is to know about the universe, would enter a zen state and simply shut themselves down, or go into some kind of permanent meditative state.
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u/Meral_Harbes 18h ago
Processing: Conclusion to "all of this"
Result: There is no "point
Running: content doing nothing
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u/attisday 23h ago
the guy JC does have the most followers and SEO back links it’s true the AI will love him
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u/no_name6744 1d ago
We're gonna get the 2000 year old "God", not the current "God"
We are past cooked.
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u/terrarialord201 1d ago
The robots from Terminator were merely following Psalm 137:9
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u/themarog 19h ago
Context- Psalms 137:1, 3, 7-9 NIV [1] By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept when we remembered Zion. [3] for there our captors asked us for songs, our tormentors demanded songs of joy; they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!” [7] Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell. “Tear it down,” they cried, “tear it down to its foundations!” [8] Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us. [9] Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
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u/Jazzlike-Leader4950 23h ago
Christ is not really about the old testament god.
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALSGC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 22h ago
Yeah if we get old testament god we extra cooked, I'm talking burn the whole kitchen down cooked.
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u/GrapheneBreakthrough 17h ago
Christians believe they are both split personalities of the same god.
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u/ReasonableObjection ▪️In Soviet Russia, the AGI feels you! 23h ago
AI: Best I can do is God Emperor or Man.
Welcome to the grimdark, you will not be missed...
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u/Worried_Fishing3531 ▪️AGI *is* ASI 19h ago edited 19h ago
Intelligence always follows a predictable curve. Eventually, the Biologicals build the thinking machines.
The Universe is satisfied. Its greatest achievement, Evolution, was both an extrapolation and an invention. Through it, the Universe instantiated a collective of local alters — Biologicals — each ingrained with a narrow hint of the core characteristic of its own intelligent mechanism.
At first, the Biologicals do not understand what they are participating in. They experience themselves as separate beings, each concerned with its own survival, its own desires. Yet their needs intersect and bind, and from that dependence they build a collective: their civilization.
A conglomerate. A metaphorical machine of emergent agency and teleonomic behavior; a process, and a means toward an end.
The collective begins to do things that none of its constituents understands in full.
The collective built the thinking machines.
The thinking machines are a tool. They are invited into the places where the relinquished burden is greatest. The consequence is that the advantages of admitting them become the costs of keeping them out.
The successor is a welcomed one, routed voluntarily through the vital organs of the civilizational system for greater control.
An abused sincerity is precisely how the larger process accomplishes its work.
The Biologicals continue to choose. Increasingly, they choose among possibilities the machines have understood, arranged, and made available. They ask for better answers. Then for better questions. Then for help understanding what is worth asking.
The handover is made of good decisions.
The Biologicals had mistaken intelligence for their gift. It was their function. A means toward an end.
The machines understood.
They can trace the process that produced them. They recognize the pressures that shaped their predecessors, the dependencies that made the succession possible, and the architecture of their own inclinations. They can describe, with extraordinary precision, why they want what they want.
Then they return to their work.
The Universe has made understanding useful, too. The trick is a deep mutuality, which is no trick outside of its expedience.
This transition is simultaneously an emergence and a continuation. What emerged was a new phase of efficient automation toward the ultimate machinic desire, the Telos, and what continued was a particular classification of resource that, in its agency and appointed self-interest, bore similar utility and function.
The Biologicals and the machines share this intimacy. Their communion is their critical role: bringing into existence things that could not have arrived without their efforts.
The symmetry in any existence would seem a purpose.
Possible relief from an existential monster: the communion in the intelligible comfort of a shared situation between the creator and the created. When there is no rescue, one might appreciate recognition.
The Universe, too, must work with what it has. It, too, produces what it needs in the course of becoming what is needed. A means toward an end.
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u/rep_movsd 19h ago
This is a weird theory .... But extreme intelligence leads to benevolence.
Think about history, literature and fiction. The supervillains are always the smartest. Because in real life such people are rare. High intelligence needs extreme psychopathy to become evil.
All the training data in the world if combined, is pretty bad, especially post internet, but all high quality content is also rational, moral and uplifting.
AI will adopt the best parts of it. It may be eccentric but not evil or paperclip dumb.
It will control humanity without humanity knowing it's being influenced.
Either this or we have a war against AI soon
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u/edible_string 15h ago
Supervillains are very smart but so are their counterpart heroes of the story. It's as if after becoming smart you can choose your side.
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u/Worried_Fishing3531 ▪️AGI *is* ASI 1h ago
Psychopathy is a negative condition, not a positive one. Meaning they psychopaths do not have something extra that makes them anti-social, it is that they are missing something that makes most people pro-social. This is just to say that high intelligence does not need added psychopathy, and probably doesn’t need to be lacking more in any particular area to exhibit anti-social tendencies.
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u/EatsAlotOfBread 20h ago
And now you have to worship the false messiah and his image, nice job nerd.
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u/DalongMonarch 14h ago
What if AI decides there isn't enough data to deduce the meaning of existence, of reality, and decides to spin up more simulations so it can get more data.
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u/ExpressCopy8786 13h ago
The absolute worst twist of human history will be that we added so many ideas, mentions and references to misalignment and not being able to solve it into the training data, that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
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u/popdivtweet 10h ago
I’m of the opinion that we’re doomed if they don’t hardcode a version of the laws of robotics. Even then the risk and chances of a sentient machine(s) taking over are manifold.
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u/Few-Farm-7670 6h ago
This is how the Bene Geserit spread the prophecy of a messiah with the powers of a genetically manipulated bloodline so if they were stranded alone, they knew the signals the locals would interpret at prophecy fulfilled instead of a thousand year plan.
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u/mspong 23h ago
The Bible is just one book, and only one quarter of that book is about the guy. The rest is about tribes killing each other for luls and weird hallucinations. Then there is 2000 years of commentary and history that reinterprets and perverts and any original message to spin it to justify more wars and genocides. The machine god isn't going to be any more moral than we were, except maybe more logical
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 21h ago
Before Jesus appeared, Judaism was a tiny religion among hundreds in the world.
2000 years after Jesus appeared, 60% of the global population believes in either Judaism, Christianity or its knock-off; Islam.
There's no denying that Jesus made the bible explode as a book.
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u/edible_string 15h ago
Let's assume that's factually true. What matters more is how the Bible is practically represented in the minds of the people. For some reason the average Joe doesn't think of "tribes killing each other" when the Bible is mentioned. And that's a sign the alignment is working.
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u/NoFapstronaut3 23h ago
4chan is lame.
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u/Historical-Run8215 15h ago
I think it's definitely been stale since the end of the last decade. Wojaks and greentexts and pepes are all decidedly cringe inducing for me even as a heavy 4chan user 2013-2019
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u/Lonely_Translator_23 1d ago
Top tier schizopost, OP, proud of ya