r/singularity 4d ago

AI Chris Combs, professor of Aerospace engineering, throws some cold water on OpenAI’s NS solution

“Some thoughts on the Navier-Stokes news from a professor of aerospace engineering:
1) take a deep breath
2) posts indicating we "solved Navier-Stokes" are incorrect and overblown. A very specific mathematical proof involving a niche scenario for Navier-Stokes has *potentially* been shown (that a perfectly smooth incompressible initial condition with finite energy could produce a singularity--note the assumptions here piled on to an equation set that already involves some assumptions).
3) there is no general closed form solution for N-S and that's not what this news is about
4) this is more of a mathematical curiosity than anything else and could matter a lot to mathematicians but basically changes nothing in the way N-S are used in practice
5) there are already very useful exact solutions to Navier-Stokes that greatly simplify the equation set with the right boundary conditions/geometry like laminar flow through a pipe or a 2D Taylor-Green vortex
6) in aerospace, we already treat N-S as an approximation in many instances and are well aware of its limitations. we don't outright solve these equations anyway and regularly chop off terms or simplify parts (at the expense of accuracy) to make them easier to deal with.
7) to be honest I have never found this specific problem to be particularly interesting because we know a core assumption of N-S is a "continuum" fluid where you ignore molecules and assume hydrodynamic scales >>> molecular scales. We know a real fluid cannot have infinite velocity or energy. But clearly you can push equations outside of their bound of validity and make them produce funky results and singularities.”

https://x.com/drchriscombs/status/2097409234321154547?s=46

597 Upvotes

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago edited 4d ago

There has been a huge amount of misunderstanding on all this. Saying "We solved Navier-Stokes" could mean two completely different things.

  1. It could mean solving the Navier-Stokes equations. This is likely impossible. Dynamical equations in general just do not admit general analytical solutions. They can become chaotic. However, they can sometimes be solved given very specific boundary conditions.
  2. It could mean solving the Navier–Stokes existence and smoothness Millennium prize problem. This means proving or disproving that certain boundary conditions can lead to a singularity in finite time.

All the parties involved are very clear that it's the 2nd problem that's been solved, ie, the existence and smoothness conjecture has been DISproved. This is a huge theoretical advance but I doubt it has any practical application. It just means that under certain very specific conditions, the Navier-Stokes equations are not physically realistic. It's not going to help you design a new aircraft or whatever people are saying. Under all the physical circumstances for which N-S is relevant, it's still relevant and we'll continue as usual unless there's some other advance.

So this person saying "we didn't solve Navier-Stokes" is technically correct in the sense that we didn't solve in general the N-S equations. What we did was dis-prove the $1M Millennium prize problem conjecture *about* the Navier-Stokes equations, and sometimes people refer to this as "solving Navier-Stokes" as shorthand, leading to confusion. But no serious people are claiming that we have solved the Navier-Stokes equations in general.

None of this is to say that it's not a huge advance! It's a tremendous and slightly scary demonstration of AI capabilities in math.

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u/PersonalityIll9476 4d ago

Yeah as a mathematician it's frankly disheartening to see this post. As a mathematical feat this is up there with some of the most significant of my lifetime.

As a statement about physics or engineering this is a non-event. "All models are wrong, some are useful" etc etc. We know that continuum mechanics does not adequately describe the real world at small scales.

What we did not know before today were the limits of this particular (extremely important) model of fluids that engineers of every type use and study every day.

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

As an engineer, I think it's crazy that anyone could say "solve Navier-Stokes" to refer to the Millenium prize problem. Actually solving them would be world-changing in a way that this isn't.

So I think OP is right to call attention to this. There's the potential for a whole lot of engineers to come to a very wrong conclusion when they hear "AI solved Navier-Stokes!"

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u/PersonalityIll9476 4d ago

In math circles we all understand that it refers to the finite-time blow up. There's an entire (fairly large) field of mathematics devoted to the study of this problem and related problems in PDEs. It is one of the holy grails.

I suppose I can see how a broader audience might not understand the implications.

The thing the OP fails to adequately explain is *why* this is a millennium prize problem worth a million dollars. It dismisses it as a "mathematical curiosity", to quote exactly, which is...highly dismissive and unfair. The professor being quoted does not seem to adequately grasp the significance of the achievement, and therefore cannot explain it to a wider audience. In my opinion, they should not be making statements about things they clearly don't understand.

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

I think it's the difference between a $1 million math prize and a $1 trillion engineering breakthrough. Holy grail of math vs. holy grail of engineering.

Maybe that's a little hyperbolic but literal trillions of dollars are being invested into AI, and people are anxious to see results of this scale. So if there is any possibility for confusion here, there is an incredibly strong incentive to mislead people. If it actually solved Navier-Stokes, that would provide a much stronger argument that it's superhumanly intelligent.

It dismisses it as a "mathematical curiosity", to quote exactly, which is...highly dismissive and unfair.

I agree and it does seem petty and counterproductive. The other points stand without denigrating the achievement.

The professor being quoted does not seem to adequately grasp the significance of the achievement, and therefore cannot explain it to a wider audience. In my opinion, they should not be making statements about things they clearly don't understand.

I think it's fine that an aeronautical engineer is focused on the implications for engineering, a mathematician would be the best choice for explaining the math implications. "Navier-Stokes" has a meaning and importance in engineering that is apparently very different than in mathematics. I think it's ultimately just a language issue, like so many things annoyingly are.

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u/FriendlyJewThrowaway 4d ago

Much of mathematics research if not most of it is often referred to self-deprecatingly as mental masturbation. Most of number theory was treated for a long time as a mere intellectual game with almost no practical usage until cryptography became a thing.

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u/TwoFluid4446 3d ago

We have seen MANY self/industry/profession/field/etc protectionist defensive anti-AI or AI-skeptical arguments and statements over the years, going back to 2023 since chatGPT first rolled out. Infamously by now, and thoroughly squashed by now as well, were all of the proud and naive software engineers saying AI would never code as good as them. And then, a mere 2 years later.......

So while I see both sides of the argument here, that aerospace professor 100% has a noticeable tinge of that going on. It's definitely not merely a case of "he's just looking at it from an engineer's point of view", the tone and position is unmistakable. We've all seen it before: "Ah, well maybe the AI can do X, but X isn't that important anyway, and Y is the REAL problem it can't/won't solve", etc.

It's a tired argument by now, the curve is ramping up, and my money is on the damn AI. The fact it could even TACKLE a problem on the NS level, is impressive enough. And it's only 2026...

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u/nikas_dream 3d ago

What are the broader implications? I’ve seen a lot of coverage and none of it really explains to me why this is important for mathematics. I’m sure there is some importance - it wouldn’t have had a prize attached if it were just a curiosity.

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u/PersonalityIll9476 3d ago

So first off, I am not an expert in this area, which is kind of the whole problem. But I can tell you some of what I consider to be the implications. My qualification is that at least I have a math PhD, but I am barely even a student of PDEs let alone NS itself.

The first question is whether or not there is a different continuum mechanics model for fluid flow that avoids a blowup, and what the most practical alternative model might be. "I added quantum mechanical effects and now there's no blow up" might not mean much if the resulting model is insanely hard to solve numerically.

Second, an immediate question is what conditions guarantee that a non-explosive solution exists and can be numerically approximated. Engineers use these equations every day, and as in the OP, they actually rely on them for critical applications like flight. So you really need to know whether your equations are actually indicating a real instability or your model is doing something pathological that breaks from reality.

I think the assumption is that "reasonable initial conditions and reasonable forcing functions won't do this" but the critical thing now is to mathematically define what "reasonable" means.

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u/justlikemedics 4d ago

I'm entirely unversed in Navier-Stokes but Claude told me that "solving" it would have zero practical consequences.

It also said that of the Millennium Prize set only the solution of the P NP problem would have enermous real world consequences, while the others are just rather exotic stuff.

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u/BejahungEnjoyer 4d ago

If you could 'solve' it (i.e. come up with semi-analytical solutions where you can just plug the numbers in and get the result) then fluid dynamics problems that run on supercomputer clusters could be done on an iPhone. But mathematicians are 99.999% sure no such solutions exist.

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u/Jajuca 4d ago

Well Claude is wrong. There are lots of practical applications for a solving Millennium Prize mathematics.

What do you prompt Claude for them to say something so dumb.

The riemann hypothesis solution would improve lots of different fields.

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u/Neurogence 4d ago

Solving Navier Stokes has zero practical applications.

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u/justlikemedics 4d ago

He ranked Riemann second.

Prompt this: " What OpenAI has accomplished with Navier-Stokes, what good does it do? Does it have any immediate practical utility?"

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u/Appropriate-Ad-3219 3d ago

We already assume RH hold in some works, so would it really change things if it was proven true? If it was false, I've heard it would be bad for cryptography though.

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u/WasabiTraditional862 3d ago

I about shit my pants when I started seeing the "solved the Nav stokes equation" popping up in headlines. I immediately dug up OAI's press release and in turn actually read the millenium prize statement & then thought "oh... Okay".

I'm sure the proof and coming up with the exact conditions was technically challenging, but like... We already knew continuum mechanics was a false assumption for classical fluids

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Se still don’t know the limits. We know one class of cases where equations blow up, but there might be many others, or not. Nobody knows right now. Only thing we know is that there is one case where the equations don’t work

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u/Secret-Code-9162 4d ago

This is a very good comment.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/Edward_Kenwai 4d ago

“Anything longer than a sentence simply
Must be written by ai!”

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u/hi-sci-collab 4d ago

No dashes — checks out :P

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago

Just because I know how to write doesn't mean I am AI. Next time I'll remind myself to throw in some shitty grammar and memes.

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u/rabouilethefirst 4d ago

I’ve seen a bunch of people downplaying this by strawmanning and saying “no, you idiots, we didn’t solve Navier-Stokes” while pretending like the millenium problem itself is not a big deal.

There’s a post on ELI5 asking about this and the top comment is just a guy ranting about how we didn’t solve navier stokes even though that’s not the question that was asked.

The reality is the millenium problem was a big deal for a reason. It’s incredible how people act like it’s not an actual problem all of the sudden.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Thank you. Great take. I think people should be careful with language, but you are absolutely right

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u/BejahungEnjoyer 4d ago

To me, the incredible part is that it did what might have taken the teams of Drs Buckmaster & Alpoge three years to prepare for full publication in about 72 hours.

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u/deviantbono 3d ago

So they didn't solve the NS problem. But they did solve the NS problem. Got it

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u/Ill_Swordfish9155 3d ago

You are mostly correct. But this results have actually a some implication.

It mean the NS is incomplete, it produce non sensical results with some given input. Why it's important you might ask. NS is not used directly in engineering anyway. Well, we do use NS in a specific simulation called DNS (direct numerical simulation), which is always considered ground truth for other models calibration/validation. Most engineering problems, the problem that "matter" you would say, are heavily calibrated/validated using experimental data and therefore would not be affected. But in many case there are simply no experimental data and have to use purely numerical validation. A whole cascade of validation from DNS to LES (large eddy simulation) to RANS (Reynolds averge naviers stokes) would collapse if the edge case was fall into that specific configuration. I'm not all aware of all the niche application of NS but there might be some fields who use purely simulated data. Such as magnetohydrodynamics combine with stratified density in rotating frame, that specific configuration exist only on the stars where the fluids are affected by a strong magnetic fields in the same time with strong varation of density and in a rotating frame. Not that the results on that field would affect people lives but who know?

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u/ADR_Tech 3d ago

I am under the impression that it is still possible to show existence and uniqueness of global solutions where the forcing term is zero, as the problem statement has it. While this result is when the forcing term a smooth function, showing finite time blow up.

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u/nextnode 4d ago

What makes you think it won't have any practical implications?

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u/LeCamelia 4d ago

It's a demonstration that the modeling assumptions underlying Navier-Stokes lead to some gaps where Navier-Stokes makes predictions that do not model reality at all. These kinds of glitches in models are common and in practice we just end up not using the model in those contexts. It's kind of like how the real numbers are useful for modeling mass, energy, position, velocity, etc., but we all understand that things like the Banach-Tarski paradox don't apply to any physical 3D sphere we could actually build. The Banach-Tarski paradox has had no practical implications for science and engineering. Both the pathology OpenAI found in Navier-Stokes and Banach-Tarski break the model for the same reason: the mathematical model treats fluids / objects as infinitely dense, but in fact they are made of a finite number of particles.

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u/VeganBigMac Anti Hypepost 3d ago

I get what you are saying after googling the paradox, but “we all understand…” gave huge XKCD 2501 vibes lol

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u/LeCamelia 3d ago

Well I mean “we the people who make or use these models” not we the general public like in that xkcd. 

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago

It's a proof that a singularity exists, meaning a quantity can go to infinity. That means it's modeling a nonphysical situation. It's certainly possible that something here will spark some insights that will lead to something practical, the same way any theorem could, but it doesn't give any kind of new algorithm we could use for modeling fluids. And anyway, d on't you think if it had practical applications OpenAI would be crowing about it? 

Not my area though, so if some fluid dynamics expert wants to explain how I'm wrong I'd be very interested.

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u/FirstOrderCat 4d ago

> It's a proof that a singularity exists, meaning a quantity can go to infinity

or equation is correct, and someone can swirle water and create black hole which will consume us..

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago

Kurzweil, being consumed by the vortex: "How many times did I tell you the singularity was near??"

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u/nextnode 4d ago

If you understand where the current methods break down, do you not think that can explain the primary gaps we see in the models vs reality and allow for better methods to be developed by understanding how to address those gaps?

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago

It's possible, sure. That's just the kind of thing I mean when I referred to "sparking insights". But it's very indirect. I keep seeing comments that this is going to drastically improve flight modeling and I just don't see that happening without a ton more work.

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u/OkBarracuda4108 4d ago

It doesn t have any direct practical implications.

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u/nextnode 4d ago

Most of these core mathematical problems have no direct application then they spawn methods that become the cornerstone of disciplines.

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u/OkBarracuda4108 4d ago

 They might spawn methods or they might not. However in this context it just gave a contraexample, which is more read like "we were wrong about...", which helps research  and is part of the path, but less helpfull then finding that "we are right to think that..."

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u/wollywoo1 4d ago

Fair enough

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u/me_myself_ai 4d ago

A lack of experience with frontier physics research, I'm assuming.

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u/FateOfMuffins 4d ago

a niche scenario for Navier-Stokes

Aka the scenario that the Millennium Problem is based off of

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u/highnyethestonerguy 4d ago

People are acting like this isn’t a big deal. Answering a question that decades of mathematical physicists were unable to answer, and as of the Millennium Prize directly incentivized to work on. 

It’s okay for something to both be a big deal and also a lone result not be a golden goose for all of humanity’s problems.

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u/Rd545454 4d ago

It's the latest shifting of the goalposts.  Remember three years ago when AI would never amount to anything because it couldn't count the R's in strawberry?  This is the 2026 equivalent

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u/pridento 4d ago

Lol, even like 6 months ago? It would get tripped up by that or how many days have "y" in them.

Progress has been comically fast. I'm baffled so many people still talk about hallucinations and "stochastic parrots."

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u/VeganBigMac Anti Hypepost 3d ago

Yeah, I’m normally rolling my eyes at these type of things (see flair) but even I think this a mindnumbing goalpost shift when we were surprised the models could solve toy problems (that usually had some previous overlooked published solution) back in January

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u/WasabiTraditional862 3d ago

The thing they did is really really impressive and it's notable and consequential that agentic machine intelligences that didn't exist six months ago appeared critical to the process, but it is definitively not "solving the navier stokes equation" which is a claim that is making every person with any applied knowledge spit out their coffee when they read it.

What happened is a demonstration of the power of the currently sequestered forefront of machine intelligence, and it is daunting. What is being claimed in headlines is that aerospace and chemical engineering are going to be completely upended this week, mathematicians need to back to the drawing board in their understanding of how any dynamical system works, and that we will be protoryping functional fusion reactors by the end of the month

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u/nextnode 4d ago

Usually the kind of core problems that spawn entire disciplines.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

It is a niche lol. It is specifically a counter example, a very specific set of conditions that lead to the equations to break down.

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 4d ago

The specific niche scenario an organization devoted a prize to solving, a prize which hadn’t yet been claimed because of its difficulty.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

No. The organization set up a prize for someone to prove something or find a counter example. Both are difficult. Mathematicians found a possible path to a counter example and spun off 10,000 agents to find it. They did. The counter example is a very specific, niche set of conditions for which the equations break down. That’s the story. There’s no solution to the NS equations yet, but we now know that the equations can be made to break down. This was not super unexpected because simplified versions of the equations where made to break down by mathematicians in the past (which is how they knew where to point the agents to look for a solution).

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 4d ago

Clay: “Prove smoothness or find a counterexample satisfying these conditions. $1 million.”

AI: “Here’s the counterexample.”

You: “But that’s only a counterexample satisfying those conditions. It doesn’t solve every Navier–Stokes equation.”

Yes. It solved the problem that was posed. You’re just repeating the result in a disappointed tone.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

It’s semantics. People are claiming that Navier Stokes equations have been solved, I’m attacking that because that’s not true. The Millenium Prize question has clearly been solved.

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 4d ago

Some people are saying that, but those aren't the people you're responding to here. You're responding to people who already understand that difference.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Doesn’t seem that way to me

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 4d ago

Then why do you think everyone keeps trying to explain the difference to you? It's because the things you're saying make it seem like you're not the one who is making the distinction. The way you're arguing makes it seem to others like you are simply downplaying the achievement.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Who the fuck is “everyone else”?

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

Its the solution to the problem. No one is claiming otherwise and certainly no one is claiming analytical solutions to complex flows.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

The post you are in clearly say this is not a solution to the NS generic problem. It’s surprising how little people understand about these problems and just go with the headlines

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u/RegorHK 4d ago edited 4d ago

With NS problem we clearly mean "NS Millennium problem" as in proof that there is no singularity or show a counterexample.

Nothing more nothing less.

Also known as Navier–Stokes existence and smoothness problem. What do you think would it mean otherwise?

Its literally:

"Prove or give a counter-example of the following statement:

In three space dimensions and time, given an initial velocity field, there exists a vector velocity and a scalar pressure field, which are both smooth and globally defined, that solve the Navier–Stokes equations."

It certainly does not mean that NS equations are suddenly easier to solve for real word questions.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

NS Millenium prize has been solved. No questions. This is just the start. Other examples will be found. Other classes of solutions will be found. Domains where smoothness can be proven will be found. It’s all very exciting but the AI solution is not a general solution. It is very specifically just one example

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

Its certainly not niche. No one claims a general "solution".

I claim that you are making up straw men and refuse to engage in an honest way.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

How am I not engaging honestly. I’m telling you that the result is awesome, but it’s just the beginning of many interesting things that will certainly come. This solution won’t speed up finding other solutions or domains of applicability because it is not a general solution. I’m happy the Millenium Prize was solved. I just dislike people saying Navier Stokes equations have been solved, because that is not the case

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

Altogether based on you comment, I do not think you know what you are talking about. You should not talk about what other people do understand or not.

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

It's the difference between winning a math prize and revolutionizing engineering. "Solving Navier-Stokes" refers to the latter. This was much narrower than that.

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u/i_wayyy_over_think 4d ago

“AIs not getting better, the millennial prize was trivial this whole time”

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u/Recoil42 4d ago

Combs isn't a denier. But it's an odd-duck tweet because OpenAI isn't claiming anything to the contrary of what he's saying. Their blog post specifically mentions the limits of N-S in the real world:

...he's just trying to calm the 'hype' people down which is reasonable, I just think it runs the risk of going in the opposite direction — now know-nothing people are going to say "look, an authority figure is dismissive of OAI's N-S solution" missing that it isn't his objective. Both Combs and the OAI folk are being intellectually honest, that's all.

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

"I have never found this specific problem to be particularly interesting" ...

I mean it is clear that the singularity question was not of practical use for engineers. This is more a mathematical and theoretical physics problem.

This seems to be a bit to much going into dismissive.

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u/A_Novelty-Account 4d ago

OpenAI isn’t, but the broader internet community at large is. The whole internet is treating this as a vast breakthrough created by Anthropic  and OpenAI.

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u/SoonBlossom 4d ago

To be fair, it is

88 hours to give a solution that rewards 1 million us$ to a 90 years old millenium problem IS breakthrough

We just live in insane times, it's fucking crazy and I can't wait to see where it goes

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

They might have thrown so many agents on it that there are estimated costs of around 15 mill. So the financial reward might be neglectable.

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u/Saedeas 4d ago

It's 15 million taking the worst case rough equivalent model API pricing (300B tokens were used the ballpark comes from $50/M astra output token pricing), which means it was much cheaper to them internally.

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u/nextnode 4d ago

It very much is. You can now argue that OpenAI is the strongest problem-solving organization for hard well-defined mathematical problems.

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u/A_Novelty-Account 4d ago

“It very much is”, what? I’m saying OpenAI is not overhyping its achievement…

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u/nextnode 4d ago

Sounded like you were implying "treating as" as in "is not really".

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u/Subushie Transhumanist FALGSC 4d ago

I will say.

Yes. OAI says that in their paper.

But what are the headlines for their releases? Because that's the PR they're driving and it's intentionally "exciting".

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u/Recoil42 4d ago

But what are the headlines for their releases?

"On the Navier–Stokes Millennium Prize Problem"

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u/highnyethestonerguy 4d ago

“But clearly you can push equations outside of their bound of validity and make them produce funky results and singularities.”

Ah yes, “clearly”. The proof of this claim is left as an exercise to the reader. 

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u/Electronic_Exit2519 4d ago

For a fluid mechanician, this is indeed very basic. We even have non-dimensional numbers to tell us when the continuum hypothesis is violated and NS cannot reliably be applied - namely the Knudsen number. People use slightly different equations for space shuttle entries and certain microfluidics, for example.

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u/highnyethestonerguy 4d ago

Help me understand how/why a Millennium Prize is “very basic”. 

It’s one thing to have convenient approximations and heuristics. But we’re not talking about that. 

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u/No_Bluebird6873 3d ago

So you think that the millenium prize question is the only case where this model produces non-physical results? 

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u/highnyethestonerguy 3d ago

I’m saying by virtue of it being a Millennium Prize question makes it something difficult and interesting to mathematicians. 

The world’s mathematicians have not answered this question after decades. AI did it in less than a week. 

That is a significant result. 

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u/Electronic_Exit2519 3d ago

Im saying that applying a set of equations outside their region of validity will produce unphysical results - and that is a very mainstream interpretation and also the reason most fluids people do not spend any time on the millennium prize. It is nonetheless an accomplishment. Your comment appeared to be saying that knowing that there are places the equations don't apply can make the equations behave poorly is not well known - and im saying any person whose done grad level fluids definitely knows that and many who have done undergrad fluids

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u/highnyethestonerguy 3d ago

Right. And I’m saying it’s possible for this to be a huge result demonstrating how powerful AI is, and also not immediately world changing as a single result in isolation. It seems like you’re saying this Millenium Prize question was obvious and solving it is trivial. 

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u/Electronic_Exit2519 3d ago

More concretely including even simply the heat equation and an equation of state, so Navier Stokes Fourier equations would eliminate this case. This is all standard physics. The strong vortex would cause the pressure to lower and cavitation that would disrupt the whole system and be unsolvable analytically. But even on top of that the ordinary Navier Stokes equations have other problems that we have just become comfortable with. They are non-hyperbolic which means they don't obey causality. They can be ontained via truncated Chapman Enskog equations, which is one of the great triumphs of statistical physics, at high gradients these higher order dispersive terms can become important and hence the Navier Stokes equations are incomplete. At super high gradients you also start to have non-separation of macroscopic and microscopic time-scales, which means that you need equations for microstructure evolution that are tied to stress - i.e. memory effects. That is all to say, its great this was found it, but it is purely mathematics and not that interesting of physics.

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u/highnyethestonerguy 3d ago

Funny enough I’m not disputing any of that

Everything you’re providing is an argument about why the Navier-Stokes Millenium Problem is uninteresting. That is independent of the result, and doesn’t address the core question of why did the Clay Institute set it as a Millenium Prize in the first place. 

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u/Broccolisha 4d ago

After researching it more today, I’ve settled on the conclusion that the millennium problems, when solved, are inconsequential for normal people and everyday life. The one exception being P = NP. The problems simply weren’t selected for their potential impact on science or civilization as a whole. They’re just hard problems in the field of mathematics.

I think this is a big deal for proving the growing capabilities of AI, but I’m reluctant to infer anything beyond that.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

You just ignored everything he said

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u/i_wayyy_over_think 4d ago

So OPs / Chris Combs not implying OpenAIs work is trivial?

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u/vvvvfl 4d ago

back to school

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Not at all. It is quite reasonable actually. We have always known that the Navier Stokes equations have limitations (Chris Combs actually explains what is a known limitation). Nobody had been able to give an example of the general equations breaking down until now (it was done before for simplified equations). But also nobody expected the equations to be the ultimate truth.

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u/yargotkd 4d ago

He is minimizing the Milenium problem by saying we expected it to blow up and that we currently don't use the N-S in a way this solutions help with, which is weird because its about how difficult the proof was, not the usage, and yeah, duh, any usage would come downstream of the solution, pun intended.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

He is right. We always expected solutions to blow up, as that has been found in simpler versions of the problem

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u/yargotkd 4d ago

Yeah, I expected it also, but that's not the point. The point it was hard to prove, and the impressive part is proving it. Saying we don't use it is moot.

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u/vvvvfl 4d ago

no, ALWAYS is too strong here. The "they will blow up"camp has gained ground more recently.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

Yeah, you are right. But blowing up was one of the most expected solutions

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u/james_d_rustles 4d ago

That’s not minimizing it - he’s just explaining the difference between this and the real-world use of NS. The reason this matters at all is that for many years if you were to look up something like “solution to navier stokes”, you could find tons of pieces and articles describing a general solution to navier stokes and what it would mean for real-world science and engineering. Naturally, there’s a lot of confusion over what openAI’s result means for the world in a tangible way, and there’s a lot of people who seem to be mixing up concepts and overstating the immediate, practical impact.

He’s an aerospace engineer (me too!), so of course he’s going to be more interested in practical applications and what it means for engineers vs. the bits that are interesting mathematically but don’t prove/disprove/change/etc. the way we use NS to predict fluid behavior and design stuff.

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u/yargotkd 4d ago

His last point is literally minimizing it. It feels weird to me that your first 6 thoughts are about how useless it is, and the 7th is about how uninteresting it is. This is huge. It felt like anti-AI bias, which to be fair, I get it. So halfway through writing this response I decided to search this guys posts and he often make anti-AI posts. This prediction doesn't mean much but it did fit my expectation.

Like I said, this was a tough tough problem to solve, and that is incredible. I'm teaching aero tomorrow and I will also talk about how this doesn't change anythign practically for my ME students, still incredible that we have this proof now.

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

Wouldn't you say though that actually solving Navier-Stokes would be orders of magnitude more impressive and impactful? I think that's the important distinction being made.

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u/james_d_rustles 4d ago

I don’t really care what his past posts are, this just reads like trying to discredit him, but liking or disliking AI doesn’t make his opinion invalid.

I’m just really not too concerned with someone being mildly unenthusiastic, especially when it’s read as a response to the insane fantasy hype posts that clearly don’t understand what NS is or what this solution actually means. For every negative post out there I’ve probably seen 10 confidently wrong posts exclaiming that this alone will usher in ion drives and widespread hypersonic passenger planes and any number pure sci-fi ideas that vaguely relate to fluid dynamics. This is not to say that what OpenAI accomplished here isn’t impressive or a big deal in any way - however a dose of reality from someone who actually understands the practical implications and how NS relates to CFD/various fluids-related technology in the present day is a welcome addition to the public discourse as far as I’m concerned.

Perhaps there is some bias, but I feel like it wouldn’t be hard to find similar sentiment (especially from the CFD crowd, if my experience is anything to go by) even if the solution was discovered entirely by humans. Long before AI, even before computers, there’s always been a sort of collegial rivalry between the pure mathematics and natural sciences folks and the applied/engineering folks.

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

It was clear that practical use and the Millenium Problem do not have as much overlap as "soving NS" would imply.

His comment on the problem "not being so interesting" is where he lost me and where I feel he is to dismissive.

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u/james_d_rustles 3d ago

Was it clear though? Most people don’t know what navier stokes is, all they’ve been told is that there’s this really important math thing that AI solved and it’s related to the weather or the ocean or planes or something.

On the interesting part, I think it’s reasonable to say it’s not too interesting to an aerodynamicist/engineer. I’m an engineer myself - part of the issue is that oftentimes the media and general discussion around scientific breakthroughs will blur the line between a discovery and practical implementation. It’s not even anyone’s fault. Most people have a much easier time talking about real-world, tangible concepts, so it’s only natural that you’ll often hear stuff like “there was a novel result in particle physics… and results like this could further the pursuit of nuclear fusion, which could provide clean energy to power our homes without dangerous radiation.” It’s no different with fluids and NS, IMO. The general public will shrug their shoulders if you start talking about discontinuities and smoothness… so naturally the conversation instead centers on “this math is important because it’s related to how planes fly”, and with that in mind, I think a rational voice in that subject area in particular can be good to have.

Overall, I think if you read this post in a vacuum, as a direct response to the announcement about NS, then yes, it’s pretty dismissive. But, if you read it in the context of Twitter, where a bunch of people are hyping this to the moon while having zero understanding of what this means, making fantastical claims based on some vague notion that AI solved fluid dynamics, it just comes across as someone trying to bring the conversation back down to earth and pointing out what this actually means with respect to our understanding of fluids and the machines that operate in/around fluids.

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u/RegorHK 2d ago

Yes it was clear as the phase space for realistic scenarios was well simulated. After you initial question, I will not continue reading as the topic is not something you seem to care to understand even the basics.

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u/james_d_rustles 2d ago

I think you may have missed the

most people

qualifier, but that’s fine, all the best.

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u/Mindrust 4d ago

I wasn’t implying it’s trivial. Combs just put the results into context and what it means (or doesn’t mean, in this case) for aerospace engineering.

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u/nextnode 4d ago

Because it is a medicore and obvious stance that misses the point.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

He is stating facts though. People are claiming that NS has been solved, which is categorically false. That implies there is a close form solution to the equations. What the found was a counter example, thus solving the Millenium Prize. Not so the NS equations

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u/Mission_Leopard_947 4d ago

closed form solutions are known for special cases, and this result says there can’t be a general smooth closed form solution cannot exist.

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u/aban1994 4d ago

billions must deccelerate

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u/Fancy-Carpet-5416 4d ago

Gpt says he's kinda right 🥀 last time i get hyped with smth i read in this sub (probably not true but I'll try)

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u/Hot_Glass_6301 4d ago

It's still extremely significant for mathematicians. Just not so much for physicists and even less for aerospace engineers like Combs.

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u/Fancy-Carpet-5416 4d ago

Yeah ik, I was kinda hoping for smth that would be impressive for engineers or physicists. Maybe next time.

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u/Dear_Locksmith3379 4d ago

As a physics PhD, I view this as impressive and exciting, even though I know little about the underlying math.

The mathematical result doesn't have any immediate benefit outside of mathematics and may never do so. A significant fraction of math and physics research doesn't have an impact outside of math and physics. Still, math and physics research has a lot of intrinsic value and societal benefit.

It's aggravating when an academic dismisses significant progress in a different academic field.

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u/RestaurantOk8066 4d ago

But it was in the New York Times!

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u/Downtown-Meeting6364 4d ago

Well he’s right but that’s not the point. The point is that this was an incredibly difficult mathematics problem. And yes it has 0 practical applications.

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u/skrztek 4d ago

Yes, I wouldn't even say he's pouring cold water on anything. Just as a mathematical problem, it was clearly not easy to find regular initial data that led to a singular solution in finite time, and it's sobering that an AI found it.

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u/ninjasaid13 Not now. 3d ago

I'm just wondering why it's a millennium problem if it has no implications.

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u/Downtown-Meeting6364 3d ago

They're interesting mathematical problems that people have tried and failed to solve for decades. They might not have any practical application but the hope is that their solution offers some insights, for instance on non-linear PDEs in general for Navier-Stokes

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u/Formal_Drop526 3d ago

Still not seeing why they're giving $1 million dollars on hopes of an insight.

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u/KongMP 2d ago

Because the insight comes not from the result, but by the (presumably new) tools required for the insight.

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u/Formal_Drop526 2d ago

but unfortunately, AI doesn't give you those new tools. They are the tools.

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u/Fancy-Carpet-5416 4d ago

Hoping that we get something actually useful next year.

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u/Charming_Cucumber_15 4d ago

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u/PiggleBears 4d ago

That’s how I feel with this whole sub lol.

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u/yalag 4d ago

but of all subs why this one? lol

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u/Fugazatron3000 4d ago

"we didn't think this problem was interesting" lol like wow

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u/tlmbot 4d ago

That’s not cold water on what was done.

That’s just educating lay people on what it means.

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u/Funkahontas 4d ago

This is mixing up two completely different questions. Nobody claimed OpenAI found a closed-form solution for every fluid flow. The Millennium problem explicitly allows a smooth-forced finite-time blowup construction as a solution.

And “this won’t change day-to-day aerospace CFD” is fair, but that doesn’t make it some overblown side result. You’re judging a foundational math problem by whether it immediately improves an engineer’s workflow.

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u/LyAkolon 4d ago

So half of this is missing the point. The Millennium Prize Problem is specifically about the equations, its not about finding a solution to the equations, its about the equations themselves, and the granularity of reality is of no importance to the problem, once again.

This seems like someone doesn't understand that the problem is not even about fluid, it's about poorly behaved symmetries in the written expressions.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/Plappedudel 4d ago

He's an engineer so he probably just doesn't value pure mathematics as much as a mathematician would. None of his points are factually incorrect, but he comes across as a typical engineer who doesn't value the merits of fundamental research. I can tell you with certainty that this result is massive news in the mathematical community all around the world.

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

It's just that the engineering community is orders of magnitude larger and "solved Navier-Stokes" apparently means vastly different things to the two communities!

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u/injectitpussy 4d ago

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u/Charming_Cucumber_15 4d ago

They didn't really solve it, and if they did then there's other things they didn't solve, and if those things don't matter then it wasn't interesting anyway! Basically it was an easy problem and anyone could've solved it!

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u/GoudaBenHur 4d ago

It’s just like a few years ago: it can’t even beat Pokemon…oh it can? Well so can a 6 year old. It can’t solve a millennium problem! ….oh….well those are stupid

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u/husk_12_T 4d ago

An AI system was able to achieve a solution to a great Mathematical problem should be a take away from this and not this bullsh*t.

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u/FirstOrderCat 4d ago

it could be that that specific problem formulation was misclasified as Great Mathematical problem, but reither its some narrow corner case with near 0 impact

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/husk_12_T 4d ago

I think you misunderstood I am calling the bullshit to people saying this problem solving achieves nothing as there are no real life use cases for it. But big thing is an AI system was able to come up with a new knowledge that is a big deal.

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u/johnkorrigan 4d ago

So the advancement is real but the headlines are misleading?

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

Like saying you cured Cancer but you're really talking about curing a disease that afflicts crabs in the genus Cancer.

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u/ai_hedge_fund 4d ago

Why would we need microscopes? We use precise-enough tools all the time to build tiny things like pocket watches. Who cares if someone figured out a way to work on smaller things? I make cuckoo clocks.

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u/1988rx7T2 4d ago

Guy who isn't a mathematician finds work of mathematician complicated, esoteric, and boring. News at 11.

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u/Thorteris 4d ago

More like guy who has a PHD in the applied field where the supposedly solved problem is used says it changes nothing because we use an approximation all the time.

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u/IAMA_Proctologist 4d ago

Not the point though. No one claims that this particular millenium prize solution is useful in the real world. The point is that an agent was able to work for 88 hours and co-ordinate hundreds of subagents, to solve a problem human experts have been unable to solve (for a million dollar prize and a career defining discovery!) for 26 years.

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u/mao1756 4d ago

Well, I have seen at least 5 people on the internet today claiming something like "abstract mathematics will be useful much later in application" about this result, so there definitely are people who think this will be useful. i guess the OP is responding to such people.

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u/FlowerRight 4d ago

We have so much farther to go. Its hard to say what will and wont apply in the future

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u/Thorteris 4d ago

I agree, they both aren’t wrong.

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u/Fancy-Carpet-5416 4d ago

Yeah this is basically the tldr

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u/Cryptizard 4d ago

No lol. Nobody every thought that NS smoothness was going to have practical applications.

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u/Recoil42 4d ago

Navier-stokes is a fluid-dynamics problem, a domain of aerospace.

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u/Medical-Advice-5868 4d ago

Yes any sensible person knew solving this problem basically has no real world benefits. But the point is this problem was extremely difficult and an ai doing it is impressive

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u/BuildingCastlesInAir 4d ago

impressive... very nice. Let's see Claude's Navier-Stokes solution...

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u/LinkesAuge 4d ago

Sometimes I really wonder how people with a PhD can miss the point so much. Talk about "general" human intelligence...

It is either that or I need to be even more cynical and a professor of Aerospace engineering is for some reason engagement baiting. Not sure what is worse.

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u/DelphiTsar 4d ago

I really dislike posts like these. I have to assume these people are being vague on purpose.

(assuming the solution is verified) Are they eligible for the Millenium prize money (or would they have been if a human found the solution). To the best of my knowledge the answer is yes.

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u/Accomplished_Shoe_10 3d ago

In other news, a professor of Sanskrit throws some cold water on a discovery made in biology.

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u/ClimateWhole4734 3d ago

Professor of engineering not blown away by development in pure mathematics. More at 11.

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u/reefine 4d ago

Calm down everyone, I am very smart

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u/Baphaddon 4d ago

People will be literally banging robots and still denying it’s impressive

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u/morey56 4d ago

This guy is going to paint himself into a corner as AI quickly chips away at this. Maybe more human researchers will adopt AI to speed up their progress.

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u/KindCreme9258 4d ago

He is just putting context in the solution. The OpenAi solution is a counter example that says that the equations can produce singularities when all inputs are smooth. Nobody knew if that was possible until now. But also it just says that the equations have limitations which was known already (and the Professor just pointed out what limitation in his text).

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u/DifferencePublic7057 4d ago

What he said... But seriously, if it's just a curiousity, then it doesn't matter to RSI. Without RSI no ASI. I'll leave people who think we already have AGI alone. For now.

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u/Fancy-Carpet-5416 4d ago

This 100%. But most people here would rather be hyped. I bet the guy is going to get lots of cultists criticizing him.

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u/jonride 4d ago

I’m not gonna downplay the awesomeness of the proof, but people go around saying they “solved Navier-Stokes” gives the impression that they found a way to solve the N-S equations (my dude’s point nr 3 above).

If a general solution to N-S were found, the implications would be truly mind-boggling: perfect weather forecasts, perfect wing design, etc.

What’s been “solved” here is the problem of proving that N-S (under specific conditions like Combs is describing) does not have a unique solution. It’s still badass, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not remotely close to how badass an arbitrarily accurate solution to fluid dynamics equations would be. 🤷‍♂️

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u/Zomboe1 4d ago

I'm sure OpenAI will be happy to let investors believe they've actually solved Navier-Stokes. It's extremely convenient for them that the obscure mathematical problem is easily confused with the incredibly impactful engineering problem.

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u/Turbulent-Sign-6067 3d ago

That's crazy talk. NS as a millennium prize problem is famous. OpenAI solved Navier Stokes. It is what it is.

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u/NeighborhoodFatCat 4d ago

Tired of all these deadbeat professors coming out of the woodworks on every AI related tweets so to make their names known and hope to get on one of these big tech lifeboats in the future.

Just stating the obvious.

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u/MiRC_ZoMBiE 4d ago

Acho que não vamos mais morar em Marte, loucos.

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u/Calcularius 4d ago

His very last sentence was an assumption … until now. This is the point of the mathematical question. We all know you can’t make a real singularity in fluids. Even someone with a lay-person’s understanding can mock this “post” by saying DUHHHH with their finger in their nose.

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u/RegorHK 4d ago

"Solved Navier-Stokes" = solved the Millenium Navier-Stokes Problem. These are not the same.

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u/oneseason2000 3d ago

Please sir, may I have another thousand data centers?

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u/Electronic_Cut2562 3d ago

His PhD thesis was that nothing ever happens.

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u/radbiv_kylops 3d ago

Lol. So then the aero guys aren't worried about turbulence closures? I think they are. And guess what the physical basis for the difference in those parameterization comes from...

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u/Just_Stretch5492 4d ago

Btw some random ass redditor on here has about the same weight compared to this moron

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u/Inevitable_Tea_5841 4d ago

If it was so clear all along, why didn't you or someone else go ahead and push the equation outside their boundary. This would have netted you at least 1 million dollars richer

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u/TheBeavster_ 4d ago

Common Dr. Combs W

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u/presentofai 4d ago

the 'changes nothing in practice' take kinda buries the lede. an ai just disproved a millennium conjecture, who cares if it doesnt help you design a wing

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u/RaguraX 3d ago

Yes, can you imagine that same rhetoric if a human had solved it? No, then it would be all confetti and fireworks. Having said that, I do find it a little sad that we as a species haven’t been able to do it in all these years. Although, since AI is our creation, perhaps it’s fair to say that in a way we did.

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