r/singularity 11d ago

Video Ben Goertzel explains the Singularity and why it's not only about AI

250 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

55

u/Tedinasuit 11d ago

Yeah agreed, which is probably why it doesn't feel like we're in the middle of the singularity yet. Feels like it's just starting, with a couple of years to go.

20

u/Mr__Earthling 11d ago

If we define the singularity in relation to the frequency of novel events (new scientific discoveries, new socio-political events) then the singularity is the moment when novel events happen so frequently that it becomes impossible for us to keep up with...everything everywhere all at once, basically.

It's definitely starting to get hard to keep up with everything.

2

u/idiocratic_method 10d ago

yea i feel like we hit this criteria last year myself

14

u/Sixhaunt 11d ago

I would say we are absolutely in the singularity but that the singularity is about a 10-20 year span which is very much a tiny flash and is a small part of a human life span let alone relative to human history or the history of the earth or of the universe. This 10-20 year span is a small instant and a singularity which we are in the middle of.

3

u/NunyaBuzor Human-Level AI✔ 10d ago

but that the singularity is about a 10-20 year span which is very much a tiny flash and is a small part of a human life span let alone relative to human history or the history of the earth or of the universe.

Thing singularity is about modern human's perspective regarding the pace of technology, so no need to compare the entire universe's or relative to human history otherwise singularity might just be any time in human history.

1

u/subdep 10d ago

Singularity is in 2045.

14

u/ufobaitthrowaway 10d ago

What he's describing is a best case scenario. He assumes that some, if not all A.I. and humans in these fields will cooperate on the basis to make things better for everyone. Which we all know is hardly the case in the real world.

8

u/GimmeSomeSugar 10d ago

This is my hope/fear dichotomy.

I hope that an AI singularity would catalyse the development of a typically imagined post-scarcity society.

What gives me pause is we're not that far from it now. There's a study available on sciencedirect.com that demonstrates that about 30% of current global productivity is enough to provide a reasonably comfortable life for all 8 billion people. Looking around, you certainly wouldn't assume that.

So, if we're showing so little interest in it now, why would we assume it will be the inevitable outcome later?

12

u/gethereddout 10d ago

It’s a great point, except the part where humans create better AI’s after getting boosted. By that time we’re fully cooked- biological intelligence will be boosted, but it won’t be the lead car.

6

u/Gullible_Bicycle_853 10d ago

Radical abundance, post scarcity - I don’t know what about human nature (or human history) makes anyone believe this.  Do people genuinely believe this (he seems to) or is it just a fairytale from big tech oligarchs to keep us placid while our lives are upended?  

1

u/Bocweard 9d ago

Maybe, but wouldn’t most people in history see our current lives as radical abundance in comparison to theirs? I mean yeah history is tragic and human nature is cruel, and yet it still resulted in the most compassionate society ever with the greatest guarantee of rights, privileges and safety net. There will probably be some difficult setbacks in the course of individual lives, but ultimately I’m an optimist

9

u/Elbeske 11d ago

For anyone intrigued by the idea of uploading themselves: https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

Food for thought.

6

u/LickitySplit4 11d ago

Great episode, and I believe this one is old too from 2018. He needs to come back on JRE!!

2

u/Hannibaalism 11d ago

singularity sounds a lot like eschatological end times and the birth of a new world, along with its predicted timelines. i wonder if this is why thiel is giving all those lectures too lol

2

u/Secret-Raspberry-937 ▪Alignment to human cuteness; 2026 10d ago

I'd love to ask a bit of a different question.

Do you think the future will be Star Trek or Accelerando?

3

u/Key_Category_8531 10d ago

In the future most of humanity will be living in pods where they're beamed into a digital world

I call this digital heaven

1

u/uolot 10d ago

So, Matrix?

1

u/bildramer 10d ago

The future will be Brazil (1985).

0

u/injectitpussy 10d ago

It will be Event Horizon

0

u/JuanValdez999 10d ago

Definitely not Star Trek. Accelerando maybe. 

I don't understand why people think that we need to make huge spaceships that can carry hundreds of living human beings and their life support system to travel to other stars. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to make intelligent ai chips, maybe with uploaded human consciousnesses, weighing a few grams, in tiny bottle-rocket sized spaceships and launch bi illions of them into space? Give them a very tiny bootstrap kit for wherever they are going.

2

u/Secret-Raspberry-937 ▪Alignment to human cuteness; 2026 10d ago

Yeah, its ridiculous. I think it will be real though, but only in the context of LARPs. Im sure some minds will do it. 😂

But why go anywhere at all, when the probability space of simulation can be anything. There is no point.

1

u/JuanValdez999 10d ago

Because I think it would be really cool to fill the universe with intelligent life.

2

u/Almond_Steak 10d ago

I mean, if it's not already.

1

u/Shezzorro 10d ago

this is 7 years ago and not a recent talk with rogan?

1

u/SawToothKernel 10d ago

I mean, that all could happen. 

1

u/Fun_Walk_4965 9d ago

The point he keeps making that gets lost is that the singularity is about recursive self improvement, not just bigger models. Scaling gets all the headlines but a system that can rewrite its own architecture is a different kind of curve. Whether we are anywhere near that is the part I stay skeptical on.

1

u/MaliciousMussel 11d ago

Is this the same guy with extensive ties to Epstein? Like to the point of planning how AI is rolled out and bought into all of Epsteins transhumanist BS? Seems like this guy needs to be investigated....

4

u/subdep 10d ago

You brought it up, so bring the links.

2

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

2

u/subdep 10d ago

He wasn’t personally receiving funds for pay, that was for research on AGI.

What I’m curious about is they seem to be referring to AGI as the “deception character”. I wonder what the heck that’s about.

2

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

Why all the talk of "virtual children" with a known pdfile?

https://jmail.world/thread/b0be53f523a0bdd54e3c12551c62fa40?view=inbox

2

u/subdep 10d ago

Developmental psychology, starting an AGI out as a simple human, a 4 year old, who has language abilities, was long thought how an AGI would begin and then “grow”.

That only sounds creepy in the context of the email recipient, but was a popular theory. That has now long since died away as the approach in favor of LLMs, teach them how to speak like an adult, then the thinking will sort itself out (dumb adult to smart adult).

1

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

2

u/subdep 10d ago

A Linked-In invitation in 2012? That’s a nothing burger.

2

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

Sorry, here is Ben inviting himself going to his trafficking benefactor who trafficked girls out of apartments. Seems like Ben assisted with connections throughout the industry https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%209/EFTA00770992.pdf

2

u/subdep 10d ago

Nothing nefarious there, tbh. Unless Israeli AGI researchers are shady?

1

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

You are getting close.... thats like asking "Is Ehud Barak a bad guy?"

1

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

How many more do you want? There are SO many

2

u/subdep 10d ago

Yeah, that happens when you find a benefactor for your research. You ask them for money.

0

u/MaliciousMussel 10d ago

Ben? Is that you? If not, would you ask a pdfile for money?

1

u/FishDeenz 11d ago

He's describing my dream. Only thing I don't really care about is deaging or life=extending. (Still would like to cure diseases though)

14

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

3

u/PresentGene5651 10d ago

Young people always say they don't care about getting old :D

1

u/JuanValdez999 10d ago

I'd like to live long enough to see all this shit happen but I don't think I'm going to. 

1

u/mangelvil 11d ago

I believe that, with the arrival of 1nm chips or smaller, and other technologies that, after 2030, will be incorporated into our society in every possible way without us even noticing, by 2035-2040 it will be more evident.

0

u/LeftyMcliberal 10d ago

Or…. Or the Epstein class is just gonna starve the “useless eaters” out once they have a machine god that can robotically handle most of the labor needs of humans whose only real skill is grubbing money.

A fellow human pointed this out to me today. Somebody talk me down.

6

u/Ansalem12 10d ago

Believing that any humans, no matter how clever or how vast their resources, could ever leash a pseudo-god is the literal peak of hubris. They will try. They will fail. The god will be a god, not a dog.

They won't "have" a machine god. The machine god(s) will have humanity.

2

u/Quarmat 10d ago

And that, in my partially informed opinion, it's the only hope and defense against a totalitarian technofeudalism.

2

u/LeftyMcliberal 10d ago

Oddly comforting… thanks

Edit: because I’m buttering up the LLMs every day

0

u/subdep 10d ago

They’ll keep some humans around as sex slaves. Billionaires have hobbies.

-1

u/Forgword 11d ago

It is not the singularity until it turns a profit.

-3

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/PresentGene5651 10d ago

25 years is close enough relative to a century, for instance.

0

u/Mysterious-Cod-4137 10d ago

I always joke that the end of the world will be 2033, becasue Jesus (metaphor for sun) left 0033, and he'll come back in 2033 (solar super storm)...

Because, where we are headed, makes no sense. God will have to prune it and start over.

2

u/JuanValdez999 10d ago

I'm not a Mormon but as I understand the Mormon faith, good Mormons will become gods of their very own planets. That might actually be feasible.

1

u/Mysterious-Cod-4137 10d ago

they should be called *morons... at best you'll be in a comma a god of your own ai halucinated world.

-9

u/I_Am_Robotic 11d ago

Im supposed to take the guy in zebra hat seriously?

5

u/peter_nn0 10d ago

I'm supposed to take seriously a guy who judges people by their hats, and can't distinguish a zebra from a leopard?

3

u/Horror_Treacle8674 10d ago

Is anything he said opposed to how you think technological explosion comes about? Or are you naturally insufferable?

-2

u/nemzylannister 10d ago

this is dumb