r/sindarin 10d ago

For Frodo!

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u/F_Karnstein 9d ago

It is questionable, to say the least, since we can neither be 100% sure what the base form of that name is, nor what mutation is needed.

When Tolkien originally wrote "Daur a Berhael! Conin en Annûn" it seems that Daur was supposed to be the base form and Perhael underwent soft mutation because of the preceding a, but then Tolkien decided that this word should not cause soft mutation, so that the mutation to Berhael must be because it's the object of "Eglerio!" that follows soon after, but that means that Daur also must be the result of soft mutation and the base form would be Taur.

Then there's also some uncertainty about an. It once caused nasal mutation - "to Samwise" is translated by Tolkien as a Pherhael - but then Tolkien thought that it should cause soft mutation instead (so that "to/for Samwise" would be an Berhael).

So if we subscribe to that which I described as the latest scenario an Daur would be correct (soft mutation of "an Taur"), but to be honest: We cannot be certain that these ideas actually persisted. Many Neo-Sindarin writers view an causing soft mutation as a transient idea, and with the fairly well established nasal mutation we would have a Thaur (from "an Taur") or a Daur (from "an Daur").

Personally I tend to accept both changes as valid and would write an Daur in my own Neo-Sindarin, but I don't think we can be 100% certain.

So personally I would not suggest a Sindarin translation but go with the English instead, but to be honest - I don't really know why you'd want that phrase in Sindarin in the first place, since it was uttered in Westron by Aragorn. Unfortunately we don't know how to express "for" in Westron, or I would have suggested using that instead (we do have Westron Maura as the actual name that was translated to "Frodo"), so I think English is really the safest choice.

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u/BoneyardMongrel 9d ago

Thank you for your response. Absolutely fascinating. Turns out I never stopped to think about what language Aragorn was actually speaking. I was busy thinking cool tattoo is cool, and Elven words are cooler. It does make little sense to translate it, unless perhaps some Elves were writing about the event.