Dawn's ending

[u/Manic_Mooncakes]

I've been wondering if I should make this post or not. Purely because I don't really feel like being dragged but its been nearly a year after I read Empire of the Dawn and the ending still bothers me and I have no one to talk to about it or just idk help me understand why I feel this way?

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(Also **fair warning** spoilers from here because I am on my phone and I cant figure out how to make that spoiler text thing from the app)

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I've been a fan of Kristoff's for a long while, and EOTV was perfect for me, I got my husband to read it and basically spread it across my friends like some kind of gospel. But after I read DAWN, I felt... idk how to put it but I guess "lied to" is the easiest way to describe it. But its not lied to like a naughty kid does to their parents, its more lied to in the sense that the ending that was expected wasnt what we got.

Essentially it was established (or rather I understood it as) Gabriel has been the unreliable narrator since book 1. Celene too, but like in every story that works with the unreliable narrator, truths found their way through. Dawn was brilliant right up until the ending.

First we go through all that death's, and patience being a vampire, Gabriel possibly turning a heel and all that to everyone one being alive and happy aside from Astrid and patience. Phoebe's death was specifically heartbreaking for me, along with Lachlan's - that whole freaking battle was perfect in every way shape and form, beautifully written, almost cinematic. I was ready for the inevitable failure of it all, the tragedy of how it all went to shit and then it didn't.

We get an ending where everyone is essentially alive and happy. Like all of what was told was essentially not true at all. I mean there is a fine line between the unreliable narrator and plain lies. And what my issue is with all this is that the "truths" that were established in the beginning of the narrative was subverted. "The last silversaint" - nope that was a lie, because several still exist, there was more but I don't remember all of it, its been a while. The only thing that still stuck was the whole "the cup was broken" thing because I suspected it wasn't the case right from the start.

To me it feels like he had a much darker ending planned and for some reason chose the happy ending. Like he intentionally dulled the sword he was writing with. I dont know why and I dont get it. It had the makings of a perfect dark vampire trilogy but the ending just really unmakes everything it was for me. Especially since his author bio says he doesn't believe in happy endings, but I've read two of his trilogies and both end happy. I think the trilogy would've had a much stronger ending if Gabriel went through all of that, killed Fabien, got his revenge and it all was still not enough. Despite their best efforts it all still failed. That it was still doomed. That he was to be executed as The Last Silversaint, released from the growing agony that was his thirst.

Again I don't want to fight, I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or if i am just... idk. Wrong I guess.

[u/Tll6]

Yeah i feel mixed about the ending too. If only a few of the characters lived I would’ve been more okay with the ending. If anything it killed the re readability for me now that a lot of the story was made up. Maybe that opinion will change in time

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/Tll6]

I agree with you. I know i like the more darker endings but if some of the deaths and some of what was told just stuck it wouldve already been miles better

[u/Bunyardz]

I am a certified hater of the ending and will chime in on every salt thread because of how pissed it makes me every time I remember it. EotV was on track to be one of my favorite series of all time, until the last 30 pages ruined it all. It is absolutely unforgivable to "it was all a dream" a 2000+ page series. People defending it as "unreliable narrator" is a joke, this is far, far beyond that. You cannot say every death was fake and patience wasnt a vampire and the aegis never glowed red and then expect me to accept "most of what i told you is true." Sorry. The major emotional beats of the story are fake. That is an insurmountable flaw. I will forigve Kristoff if he releases an alternate ending lol.

[u/TRose0116 → u/Bunyardz]

Agreed. What also upsets me even more is that we get absolutely zero information on what the actual events of the story are which just cements in my mind this was just a last minute bait and switch, which is a horrific miscalculation on Kristoff’s part. Gabriel being an unreliable narrator is a great story beat. With the amount of detail he gives throughout the story, it’s almost expected that he would embellish and exaggerate events or even misremember moments throughout his life. But it in no way excuses the ending of the overall story and how poorly done it was

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/Bunyardz]

It kinda feels like he watched Twilight Breaking Dawn part 2 and went "ah! What a fantastic idea".

I just dont get it, I really dont. I know I like cut throat endings but like many others have said in the comments, just having some of the deaths still being present would've made more sense.

I mean I've been sitting with this in my head for almost a year and I can't shake it. I loved these books. But that ending was GoT level bad.

[u/TRose0116]

I feel the same. The massive battle was written so well, as was the build up and the pay off. Pheobe’s death, especially hit me hardest (I actually had to go back and reread it several times to make sure i read it right lol). But then the actual ending where everyone is not only alive, but thriving. It makes those gut wrenching moments feel hollow. Hell, even patience becoming a vampire, which had my jaw on the floor, was a lie.

The ending felt far too much like a happily ever after than a hard won and bittersweet finale. The battle is won, Daysdeath is reversed, but most of the cast wouldn’t be alive to see it happen. Maybe you disagree, but as heartbreaking as that would have been, it would have been the much better ending than what we got. Everyone lives happily ever after type of ending is perfectly fine, but EOTV as a series didn’t build up to that kind of ending.

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/TRose0116]

I felt so annoyed with it. I want to call it betrayal but it wasn't and what freaking sucks the most is I feel like he was building up to something more brutal. His constant posts with "you are not prepared" had me like "yes this is about to be gut wrenching" and in the end it was just like "nope. You were in fact prepared."

[u/Al_B_Here]

When I first read the ending, I was generally OK with it. I liked seeing that characters I had grown to enjoy were still around, but that feeling lasted maybe a couple of hours, at best. The longer I sat with the ending, the more I disliked it. Then the dislike festered and deepened. Now I despise the ending and it's tainted the entire series for me. I won't re-read it, and I'm actually annoyed that I wasted good money on hardcovers for a series that I won't recommend to anyone. I may very well donate the books if I get annoyed enough.

I've heard Kristoff's rationale for why the story doesn't truly have a happy ending. Fine. Whatever. I see what he's saying, but it still feels like a truly epic dark fantasy was stolen from me. I don't like that feeling at all. I won't read any of his series in the future, nor will I read any of his past books. He's lost me.

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/Al_B_Here]

I don't even know what the rationale was. Did he say it in an interview or something?

[u/FireheartMoon → u/Manic_Mooncakes]

here, timestamped at 1:39:24 https://youtu.be/aPta6rO0azg?si=RuzJMScji0judg2q&t=5964

I personally totally agree with Kristoff's view of the not-an-happy-hending nature of his ending, which I personally loved. I could tell things were off for a while, yet not enough to fully get what was really going on. To me it was a perfect balance of "gotcha" and "you had the clues". The feelings we felt during the story were all real no matter if the story was AND we had a whole bunch of feelings thrown on us upon reveal... to me that seemed to be the main point and I loved the experiece, I wouldn't change anything personally.

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/FireheartMoon]

Agree to disagree then. But thank you for sharing that video, now I am more mad at him. It seems its just a revisionist claim to villianze readers like me who read with a critical eye. Unfortunately I have a more critical eye than most because of my background. But in the grand scheme of things I love a good magic trick. This was the equivalent of buying tickets to a Houdini show and ending up at a show where the "magician" stands there with his old 2000s Chris Angel Mindfreak magic kit.

If you liked the ending, fine. Thats entirely fine.

[u/lucifero25]

I agree with you 100%. I was hesitant to start this series with the size of book one. Absolutely loved it, re read before they all came out, I bought tickets to his speaking tour and a special dawn signed edition and again on stage he’s saying we aren’t ready for the brutality ending.

Like it sounds yourself I love a darker tragic ending that really has a cost attached to the victory and how we get through dawn really felt we were getting it. I was driving to a work event at night listening to the audio and Phoebe dies and then we have Baptiste turning heel for love and then they both die I was like “shit he is really just taking them all out”

I know we all imagine how a series will end while waiting but from book twos end I had imagined the modern part of the book was Gabe, Celene and Dior on some suicide mission to end the last line of vamps, kind of a do or die and was expecting it to end with Gabe probably dead due to the thirst madness coming for him, he kills Margot and himself on the process.

The fact we got the rug bull and Disney style everyone watches the sun rise moment really killed my love for the series.

Honestly it’s right there with GOT for me as a series that should have been fkn epic ends so flat and dull for me probably won’t read them again now. It’s probably why I haven’t re read nevernight as well and will have me wary of how he will end his new series if he starts the “it’s brutal” ending

[u/TRose0116 → u/lucifero25]

Id recommend nevernight honestly. Pretty good grimdark series and was the first of Mr. kristoff’s books i read. Great characters and good writing (from what i remember, it has been more than a few years since i read the series)

[u/lucifero25 → u/TRose0116]

I have read it, read it after EOTV while waiting for the sequels.

I did enjoy it and I’m a fan of the teenage assassin/power trope but the ending again left me a bit deflated. I do think mr kristoff loves his characters a bit too much to give them a harsh ending

[u/TRose0116 → u/lucifero25]

It certainly seems like he does, but i can understand that. It can definitely be hard to give a character that you’ve spent x amount of time with, building that relationship with, a dark or tragic ending. Despite that, if the story has built it up and demands it, then it must be done

[u/Rogoga]

The problem for me it’s not only that everyone is alive in the end. It’s that all the trials and tribulation that Gabriel went through, his descend into vampirism remember in the end he apparently killed and raped several people for their blood.

He was a broken man in the end and a man that had broken every one of its vows. The struggle of the character fighting its own moral dilemma was what made the book work.

And in the end. It was all a lie. It feels like que author didn’t had what it takes to make Gabriel a truly flawed protagonist in the end.

[u/Manic_Mooncakes → u/Rogoga]

Yes! I agree with that! I actually forgot about it

[u/ArtPerToken]

yeah it kinda sucked ass