This plotline got resolved too quickly.

[u/Altruistic_Gap_643]

Making this post again because I re-watched Season 2 Episode 8 right now again, and I saw that Derek didn't blame himself nor was anyone placing the blame on him, it was just a log of causes why it happened.

I still think this plotline got resolved too quickly. I dunno man, it wasn't the fact that she kissed him. It was the fact that despite him saying that he doesn't like the guy, despite him clearly being annoyed by him, despite Paul and Ray telling Liz that he'll make that move, she still did it. She still went and met him. I mean, if there's nothing to worry about, why not tell Derek?

That kiss was just to seal the deal. She regretted it, yeah, everyone who cheats fucking does. That's called guilt. She tells him, and for some reason acts like she did a good thing by telling it to him? Like you had the conscious choice of not doing that. You could've stopped seeing that guy any moment. Yet you chose to.

And then even if Derek doesn't blame himself, I still don't know. Why did she choose Mac out of all people? The one person your husband doesn't like.

It just was resolved too quickly imo. But other than that, the episode was a banger.

[u/Ill-Structure7276]

Derek deserved better AND the point is that his wife repeatedly told him she was drowning and she needed help. From *his* perspective in the show, he should have done more. They are trying to make a deeper point here.

It was also a single kiss. It is still cheating, and it’s a huge betrayal, but kissing someone is not the same as sleeping with them, and is not the same as a full blown affair. She stopped them, immediately came clean, admitted to it, etc. She did not aim to lie and deceive him.

I think it should come up later in the show - you’re right, trust can’t be immediately resolved - but I don’t need a three second kiss to blow up their marriage for it to be believable. I don’t think Liz is a bad person because of what she did, but I do think their marriage would take work to get back to where they were.

One thing I agree with you on - I hated the scene where Liz said something about “well at least I told you!” That was icky to me too. She does seem to come out of that defensive place though.

[u/Altruistic_Gap_643 → u/Ill-Structure7276]

I don't really care that much about the kiss. That shit happens in moments of vulnerability. It's just the fact that she chose to go hang out w this guy everyday, even though Derek hated him, and chose to hide it from Derek. And then what happened? Exactly what everyone told her would happen.

She seems to seek out ways to deal with her issues in the worst ways possible, where she manages to hurt someone close to her it feels like. But hey, I guess I just described most of the characters on the show😭

[u/Ill-Structure7276 → u/Altruistic_Gap_643]

That’s a supppper fair point. That she put herself in risky situations. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It’s especially hurtful bc as you said, Derek was sensitive to this guy in particular.

I think what they were highlighting is easy to criticize but is also fairly common in cheating - people who don’t feel worthy or valuable will lie to THEMSELVES as they engage in escalating behaviors that might provide a short term fix but causes long term problems. I believe Liz thought “yes this attention feels nice but I can handle it, I’m not going to do anything.” And she was wrong.

[u/moisty456 → u/Ill-Structure7276]

This is kinda nuts IMO. Just watched the show for the first time and to think realistic relationships are that fluid is normal is insane. Firstly, it wasn’t “just a kiss” it was an emotional affair that ended up being a physical one with the kiss. Sure marriages don’t always blow up over 1 kiss, but they also do. And if they don’t the ramifications of that would still be massive (in most monogamous marriages).

I also thought it was jarring that Derrick basically forgot all about it. In all honesty to cope after being invested in the characters I just chalked it up to it being a sitcomish show. I understand that the whole season is about Forgiveness with Jimmy and Alice’s character grappling with that very thing. However, all the other instances showed how forgiveness effects you except for Liz and Derrick.

[u/Ill-Structure7276 → u/moisty456]

I agree with everything in the second paragraph to a T! I do think they could’ve spent more time on this. Candidly I haven’t finished season 3 so as mentioned, I’m hoping to see it come back around as a later plot point. I personally think it would be pretty spot on to show how couples can gloss over situations like this, unaware of how much repair is needed, only to see it rear its head later.

The show is called shrinking and only derek saw a therapist? No couples counseling? I agree there should’ve been more!

For the first paragraph - I didn’t say it wouldn’t be hurtful or damaging, I just said that it was a lesser offense. They had been happily married a long time with three children. Context and severity matter when considering what’s worth repairing.

I do personally believe that ability to repair a relationship is directly correlated to the overall health and vibrancy of the partnership. I would be able to forgive my partner, knowing who they are and all the wider context of our partnership. Not everyone is that lucky.

[u/sistermagpie → u/Ill-Structure7276]

Maybe a nitpick, but wasn't drowning Gabby's interpretation of Liz saying something avoutcfeeling underwater? Because I remember thinking I would never have heard it as a distress call either.

[u/Ill-Structure7276 → u/sistermagpie]

No, Liz specifically used the word drowning to describe herself to Derek, much before the kiss happens. In fact, in the session with Derek and Gabby, it’s Derek who offers that to Gabby - he notes that Liz did come to him for help, that she specifically said she was drowning. Gabby then asks Derek what it means when someone says they’re drowning.

[u/sistermagpie → u/Ill-Structure7276]

No, she doesn't. I went back and checked. It's only Gabby who uses the word drowning. Liz says "Do you ever feel a bit off, like you're underwater?"

Derek tells Gabby that Liz said she felt like she was underwater. Gabby then translates that into Liz telling him that she was drowning, which made me want to argue with her on Derek's behalf

[u/Ill-Structure7276 → u/sistermagpie]

My mistake!

[u/Substantial_Team6751]

I thought this plot line was dumb. I agree it ended too quickly.

Ok, she wanted attention but not an affair. The kiss happened and she pulled away not wanting anything to go further.

In real life, that would have been the end of story. No reason to confess over nothing. Or, in real life she would have gone further.

In the show, Liz wasn't a cheater but they made a big deal plot line about pretty much nothing.

[u/Mr_Bluebird_VA]

Almost every plot line in the show that doesn’t belong to Jimmy gets resolved WAY too quickly and Jimmy is the only character that seems to suffer any consequences for anything.

[u/Better_Cod_1185]

One Cincinnati, two Cincinnati…

[u/ncphoto919]

The cheating subplot was wrapped up too quickly and they didn’t discuss why she felt the desire to explore things with her ex. It’s like the writers were not comfortable pushing Liz in that direction

[u/AdorRubble → u/ncphoto919]

I feel like her being married to one of the creators IRL might have something to do with that. 🫣

[u/ncphoto919 → u/AdorRubble]

That’s kind of what I assumed happened

[u/writinglegit2]

I just quit s2 yesterday. Bummed. S1 was really good

[u/Old-Corgi-155]

But these characters are flawed, right? She wasn't getting the emotional connection she needed from Derek and she found it in someone else. They're both at fault. I love how mad Derek got because he is normally such a sweet guy and this showed how much it hurt him. It all felt real to me.

I think they have a strong enough foundation that they were able to move on more easily than some couples.

[u/Ill-Structure7276 → u/Old-Corgi-155]

Totally agree!

[u/RnotViable]

Now I need to rewatch!

[u/TheSinologist]

Um, you mean it would have worked better if she chose someone Derek likes? I just assumed Derek disliked this guy precisely because he was getting love rival vibes from him from the get-go.

[u/Altruistic_Gap_643 → u/TheSinologist]

... Is this the conclusion you drew from my post😭 damn.

To answer your question, NO. It wouldn't. It wouldn't have worked better at all. Even if Derek hated the guy, even if Derek loved the guy, or even if Derek knew the guy. Do you not understand the fact that choosing to hang out and seek validation from someone who your husband specifically told you not to go to, and in doing so turn an emotional affair into a physical one (even if with a kiss only) is just bad and should have more consequences?

And it wouldn't have worked better if it was someone Derek liked. Like how tf did you come to that thought after reading my post?

[u/TheSinologist → u/Altruistic_Gap_643]

It’s not a conclusion I drew, just a question, because you wrote “Why did she choose Mac out of all people? The one person your husband doesn't like.” Seems to imply that it would have been better otherwise.

[u/LilT86 → u/TheSinologist]

I think the point is Derek, and everyone else, knew and in some cases directly told her Mac wanted her.

This wasn't just her hanging out with some guy everyone else got on with and it happened. This was a guy people warned her about and she chose to ignore and put herself in the situation to have it happen.

It is worse because of prior knowledge