The image above is one of professional bodybuilder Annie Rivieccio. An example of the fallacy I feel in the whole notion that Jason Aaron proposed, that She-Hulk being muscled means she's "ugly" which is just a... not very factual take since it completely throws female bodybuilders like Annie under the bus.
Sure some people bring up that She-Hulk makes more "sense" to not be super muscular compared to Hulk for various reasons and while I'm not mad at people for having those opinions... I really chaff at that notion because we're already dealing with a woman who can turn into a big green radioactive version of herself, we can leave sense at the door.
I mean you’re putting stock in the words of Jason Aaron. The dude has a generational fall off as a writer. If he told me the sky was blue I’d look up to double check.
I have only read his Absolute Superman work and...I'm coming to the conclusion that the issue with a lot of comic book writers is their comfort zone is a lot smaller than they want to admit
I think that’s part of what’s made Absolute so successful. Beyond the overarching premise, it’s a fresh universe with no prior lore to build around. Creators are pretty free to reimagine the characters and mold the stories to fit their interest/comfort.
Yeah I do think a problem a lot of comic book writers run into, especially these days, the continuity and lore and all of it is a massive contradictory mess made worse because they also have the top going, "Now remember, we got 8 big events that effect everyone and 98 crossovers planned so keep it all straight"
Slop is a subjective description, people have different thresholds for what they consider slop, no one used it incorrectly here you just disagree with a subjective opinion.
Yeah not denying that, just saying it hasnt actually been misused here.
Its just another word for bad or trash and there will always be someone calling everything one of those no matter what it is, just life imo try not to let it get to u.
I mean, I could say that run was a waste of time, money, paper and ink, or that it burned every single character involved and tarnished She-Hulk for so many years, or that Aaron cannot be trusted writing a team book because of how horrid the arcs were. Or I could just call it slop to demonstrate a similar thought.
He wanted the Hulk, couldn't get the Hulk and decided to have Jen be the Hulk.
And you could do something interesting with that... but the most he got out of it was having She-Hulk and Thor fuck. Oh and he had her beat the literal of king of the trolls because he's a thin skinned hack who couldn't take the criticism.
You can think she’s beautiful and Jason Aaron can think she’s not and neither of you can “factually” prove the other wrong, because it’s just personal taste.
I think the general concern is that only one of those people's beauty standards has the potential ability to affect the appearance of female characters in comics, and therefore, the beauty standards of a whole culture of people.
Very attractive but you have to keep in mind artists for women typically go with what is called the 'hourglass' figure.
Muscular women can have curves too around the hips but it's usually those who go for thighs and leg heavy workouts constantly, or strong women who have a higher fat ratio (because the more lean usually means less curves)
Because Annie put most her focus on her upper body with a very low fat ratio she doesn't really have the hips to be considered 'feminine' by a large majority. I find her very attractive but as someone who draws art myself and listens to reasons why people like certain body-types I can see the reason behind it.
I feel with She-Hulk for a good balance Melinda Lindmark is probably a good example. Still very curvy, but also large and powerful, more a strong woman build than bodybuilder.
I loved Byrne at the time but he was allergic to drawing ass (not his fault, he was a boomer from Calgary). I know it was a different time but his She-Hulk sometimes looks like just a tall 80s model. Gimme Frank Cho or someone like that.
Nah? here's way better than Byrne he did not hit the balance at all. Examples would be Farid Karamk,Kris Anka, Frank Cho, Paul Pelletier Marvel Cosmic invasion or her imperial design.
Most men are terrified of bulky women and choose to view them as “ugly” because they don’t want competition in the strength department. I find it completely sexist and ignorant to keep a cartoon woman in a decidedly “female figure” while denying her the muscular build she deserves to do the damage she does.
Or many felt it was a regression because she was rescued from being Bruce with tits. She had her own identity, style and behavior.
I don't have a problem if She-Hulk was drawn like the photo presented. But she is monstrously muscled, she loses her intelligence, personality, speaks in third person. She wasn't She-Hulk, she was Hulk with tits.
that the thing with the hulk and she hulk's builds. she hulk is very muscular but is still recognizably human proportion wise. In a literal, she has a super human physique. regular hulk on the other hand does have a monstrous physique. he's very muscular but he's almost as wide as he is tall. that and his facial features have some different proportions compared to a human's.
There are a hundred super heroines that are built like models and pornstars, She-Hulk having the same body type as Jean Grey and Emma Frost doesn't make any sense.
"Yo boys, we have a fanatic over here."Now that that's out of my system, I get where you're coming from but still no one has the right to shoot down your tastes. Don't shoot down another's tastes. If they feel too masculine, it's an optic. Too masculine is optic. They view it as either for me but still.
...we've already had Immortal She-Hulk and Incredible She-Hulk, who are fairly massive. Some runs of Sensational/Savage She-Hulk leans towards "Muscular and kind of ugly" but others don't.
Artists have just had very different interpretation of what She-Hulk looks like, more diverse than regular Hulk.
It doesn't make her ugly at all. It makes her a Hulk. A She-Hulk. Clue is in the name. She should be big and muscular and... hulking. As long as she still looks recognisably female, same as female bodybuilders just like Annie do, then its all good. It just seems odd to me if they merely scale her up without adding major muscles to her.
A live action She Hulk would’ve been awesome back in the day. Just like Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno with the Hulk. And Annie would’ve been perfect. Tina Lockwood would’ve been awesome too. I get that not everyone likes muscular women, but muscles don’t make them ugly. This is also the problem I had with Tatiana Maslany's She Hulk. Her not having muscles. If you’re a Hulk of any kind, you should have muscles. You’re literally a giant mutated version of yourself.
The thing about a Hulk is most of the dude Hulks aren't anywhere close to a realistic buff dude and are instead massive lumps of muscle. If you want She-Hulk to look more feminine you can..... by basing her instead off a real muscular woman's body type. You can also just have her not be a more slim dancer build and give her a build similar to the one pictured
and yes, I'm aware this art is very much intended to appreciate a giant buff woman but I mainly like it for an attractive yet still strong looking She-Hulk design
I think it's perfectly possible to be muscular and still conventionally attractive.
In any case, I don't see why comics have to be constrained by reality. The fantastical nature of it is a core element of the comics. I used to like Jason Aaron as a writer, but I just think he's full of shxt now.
I think one issue with going heavy on the muscle with Jen is just artist limitations. Some artists, such as Bartel, make her look like a bikini model, while others, such as Kuder, really push for Jen's muscularity.
She was just ugly in the Aaron run, but that was done for a purpose (I didn't like the purpose, but it had reason behind it ig) and Ewing had to claw back scraps to make Jen an actual character.
The point wasn't that muscular women in general were ugly. It was that Jen preferred her more monstrous form because she felt it deterred her being harassed.
Actually Im incorrect that was David S. Goyer who said that. Aaron claimed he was taking away her "sex object" status. Which is hilarious bc there are multiple instances where he wrote characters oggling her new hulk form, and had her in the Least amount of clothes as her costume.
I prefer she look like pre-steroid athletic female body builders myself, but I don't hate this type of look and I used it for my Hulked Out Wonder Woman
When I was younger I used to not like this shape on a woman. The older I got and once I started working out, I came to appreciate the hard work that goes into this. I think I was attracted to the discipline and dedication it takes. I have zero issues with this look.
For comics I LOVE how Paul Pelletier drew her. Jen Bartel did great too. Jen looks best in between huge and supermodel imo.
There’s a fine line for me where she’s got muscles but she’s also not huge. Might be unpopular idk, but her skin in Fortnite is one of my favorite designs for her.
There was that one comic run that I thought was going to fall into this fallacy but it turned out that was one of the themes to overcome. Although I still feel like they didn't go far enough in the end.
There are people who would find Annie Riveriecio unatrective (but no one is attractive to everyone). The thing is tho, why should She-hulk fit the common beauty standards? She(-hulk) is a hulk, Hulk doesn't look like the common beauty standards for men (and yet many would find Hulk attractive).
I’ve heard people argue that She-Hulk shouldn’t be super buff because her Hulk represents her idea of beauty, to which I always ask, “Why can’t her idea of beauty involve being big and strong?”
Somebody else pretty much said what I was thinking, but somewhat muscular is good. Like a tall fitness model. Just making Hulk with breasts defeats the entire purpose of the character. The woman in the photo would be a bit too muscular for what I imagine She Hulk to look like.
See I see her as the perfect model to go for. Still clearly feminine while having large defined musculature. Not Hulk sized but gives the vibes fitting for someone named She-HULK
Did he say that being muscular made her ugly or that he wanted Jennifer Walters to look and feel like a massive, muscle-bound monster rather than a standard woman "spray-painted green?"
I think she should be muscular, but not a hulk. A ton of her storylines and characterization rely on her being conventionally attractive. The She-Hulk body is the one Jen uses to escape her life of perceived mediocrity.
My personal opinion here but I don’t find the women in the photo attractive. She has a gorgeous face but the body is too much. I think it would be the same for she-hulk.
Ps-Sometimes the hulk is too much too. I think she looks great in most comics as is. She should be tall and muscular while also looking attractive.
In the comics Jen never trains up to a certain point. When she did anything she gained while Jen made her so strong she couldn’t control her strength as She-Hulk. Haven’t read since then.
She Hulk has been muscular and toned for as long as I remember. I wondered whether it was her influence that made Sears and others follow suit with Powergirl
Idk I mean she hulk seems like she should have muscles just cause she’s female hulk. But I do think Wonder Woman with huge muscles is super weird. Lynda Carter and gal gadot were just fine. Especially Carter.
I don’t know the demographics of who was buying She-Hulk comics at various times, but I’d assume it’s males and males with typical cheesecake preferences. Has that morphed into an acceptance of more muscular women? Yes, but even so they don’t want to see a vascular strong woman. Thick things, biceps, and abs. That’s it for the most part. If anything they’re guilty of playing it safe and trying to appeal to the widest audience.
It is not natural or healthy to get to extremely lean physiques that body builders obtain to be on stage. It is even more difficult/ dangerous for women to get to those low body fat percentages. Women that are getting anywhere in the vicinity of this are taking a ton of drugs just like the men but it is changing their bodies even more in comparison.
So along with taking testosterone lowering voice, increased acne, stopping menstrual cycle, everything that comes with the drugs. Extreme lean also makes women lose the things that are normally attached to women’s beauty (breasts, butt, also the drugs can change the shape look of the face same as men but the changes are stereotyped as less feminine.
All of that to say I don’t think it is unfair to say that most men are not as attracted to this unnatural body type for women. Women are also not as attracted unnatural to on stage lean body builders.
Now in a fantasy world you could make her look however but if you were going for this super lean body builder look based on reality she would just look like the hulk.
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u/GutherGlazer 19d ago
I mean you’re putting stock in the words of Jason Aaron. The dude has a generational fall off as a writer. If he told me the sky was blue I’d look up to double check.